Seademon

How is that the police killing him though? Its not is it. The heart attack killed him.

Rick Astley

You keep using the word Murdered, quite incorrectly, shame you can't see that.

In terms of him having his hands in his pocket, its CLEAR from the video he was spoken to first. With such a high tensioned enviroment the Police cannot afford to allow somebody to take liberties and regardless of wether we like it or not we have to do as instructed by the police at the time.

In the video you can see several people with their faces covered which clearly displays the climate of the crowd at the time.

Toe Knee

iTrader: (2)

Wouldnt be classed as murder but could be classed as man slaughter, end of the day u go up to an old person in the street and push them over and they die of a heart attack caused by u doing it thats pretty much man slaughter as despite maybe having a weak heart you caused them to have the attack at the time, which could be said about what happened here......

Obviously we dont kno what happened/was said prior to him being pushed so

Diseasel

Police damned if they do anything, damned if they don't . Unreasonable force? maybe , but it was in the midst of major public disorder , and i for one would not be in the way of the riot police and dogs unless i was looking to get in there face.

G950KDT

iTrader: (2)

the push could have injured him which in turn set off the heart attack..... regardless of what caused it, that officer if found out who he is, should be suspended without pay pending an investigation until it can be verified WHY he pushed an innocent man who wasnt causing any trouble and then dies a few minutes later...... shocking state of affairs regardless of the chaos and yes it can get hectic and out of control with both sides....... the police are TRAINED to deal and think about these situations and this officer clearly didnt do so!

Mark_1

Serious guys, you cant blame the police for this.
When there is a riot and you wander around slowly with your hands in your pockets and the police asks you to step back and you don't, you will be pushed.
As far as i can tell the guy ignores the police.

Police pushed him, he got up on his feet and walked away, no signs of heart attack there, i would assume that the extra stress caused by this was the reason for the heart attack, but it would have come sooner or later.

Im so tired of these hippies demonstrating against everything and destroying all they can find in their streets, have had a fair bit if this in norway recently as well.

G950KDT

iTrader: (2)

i agree with the conditions its a bad place to be but the officer didnt need to act like that, im not blaming the police but that officer DID use unreasonable force on a man they could CLEARLY see wasnt a threat. as you say it could have stressed it, and im not doubting he could have had the heart attack anyway it could happen to you, me, anybody at any time.

however, the police (coming from an army background based on the same riot training) had a clear line of sight in front of them and had no reason to attack the man by pushing him to the ground, maybe restraining and pulling him out of harms way yes, but pushing him to the ground? completely out of order in compliance with their riot training.

the people who damaged the banks and protest have nothing better to do and jump on the bandwagon of peaceful protests, and its the same as always in this country with every protest that this will happen basically.

typical band wagon jumpers ruining it and over reacting to this so called "credit crunch"

Turbocabbie

Totally agree, it looked to me as if he was loitering about rather than passing through before the police came along, and his effort to be on his way most certainly looked minimal and unwilling.
His choice of dress that day made him look like a demonstrator even if he was not although I personally believe that he was most likely in that location for that purpose.

I fail to see how so many people can say he was not involved with the protest, with that number of people in the location you would not notice someone passing innocently, it is a obvious attempt to try to pin a sad event on the police imho

nilrem

have you ever been in derby town centre when derby & forest are playing at pride park? a mate was pushed to the ground and hit with a batton for stepping into the road to get around someone... fucking wankers...

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Title amended

It's Czech Mate

Disagree 100%


IF they had spoken to him and he was ignoring them, as appears to be the situation, how do they know what he has in his pockets and what he's doing?

The Police CANT afford to fuck about with a potentially massive situation like those riots, so if some silly bugger takes offence to taking his hands out of his pockets and wont communicate with the police then WTF does he expect???

As said already unless their is conclusive evidence i fail to see how the policman can be blamed for the heart attack......it could be anything.......he could have been getting over excited by the tension of being so close to the riots etc........any sensible person would have ammended their route home that day

G950KDT

iTrader: (2)

sorry but i usually am dressed like him ie: casually.....were non rioters all expected to wear suits to tell them out of the rioters? :S clothing has literally nothing to do with it as far as thats concerned really, police have had the same training as i had in the forces to be able to tell the difference between protesters and toublemakers, theres a BIG difference between those two that not a lot of people can see.

maybe the man couldnt walk any faster than that because he either had a disbility or wasnt feeling at his best?

yes the heart attack could have started already, i know some people inlcuding family who have had a heart attack an hour before they collapsed! it could well have been that this was the case as well as the push causing the extra stress to him to get another one maybe....

i think the main point people are trying to make out is, it was a volitile situation from both sides, yes u get severly pissed off and want to smash someone in the face because 400 bottles and bricks are thrown at u, been through riot training myself in belfast and its all u think about it running to them and smashing the fuck out the nearest of the pikey bastards, but common sense tells you not to attack anyone who isnt a direct threat to you unless ordered to..... this police officer blatantly disregarded this rule and pushed the man from BEHIND (which added to him falling more than likely as he didnt expect it). this officer, NOT the police themselves, should be punished in EXACTLY the same way we would.

we always hear that the police ARE NOT above the law and are under the same laws, yet i doubt that this officer will get anything more than a few months suspension or a slap on the wrist and de-moted.

justice? NOT IN THIS COUNTRY!!!

mechanic28

iTrader: (5)

If you had listen to the police even just stopping and lifting his hands out of this pockets i am sure he would not of been pushed!As said you can not blame the police they do not know what he is up too,if i was a cooper i would prob do the same thing in that situation!!!


Remember who is to blame for all this!the police did not cause the situation,the Pratt's that can not demonstrate and have to act childish and have a riot did!!!!

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Well put

tonyk

I wonder what the CCTV cameras from the area will show, and I would be surprised if that video has started at that exact point. I would ask 3 questions.

1. What was this person doing in the Area
2. Why was this being filmed in the first place
3. Why did the guy have his hands in pockets walking as if he was drunk

It's Czech Mate

Who cares? Lets look closely at the fucking murdering PIG behind him!!

KILL KILL KILL

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Given that it was a public street, he can be doing whatever he wants providing it is law abiding.


Because EVERYTHING gets filmed when that number of people are in one place these days!

He is welcome to have his hands in his pockets, also if he was drunk, providing he isnt being disorderly, that is also allowed and shouldnt result in him being killed by the police anyway.

G950KDT

iTrader: (2)

regards to the KILL KILL KILL part

first clip of this comes to mind!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nwv61Uu1fdA

cozzfather

iTrader: (1)

i saw it on news at ten and thought the copper was bang out of order,then i did a rewind on me sky+ and it did look like he was dragging his heels and ignoring police orders to move away.
To be fair it was only one copper who pushed him away and not the whole crew giving him a hiding,i reckon the copper who did it will be wondering how unfortunate he is for having a jay walker kick the bucket on him moments after a good shove letting him know who was in authority that day.

dojj

iTrader: (3)

he was apparently just a random bloke out and about who was going home who just happened to be int he wrong place at the wrong time

coppers are supposed to shout warnings of what will happen if you do not comply with their orders and i'm sure a member of the force will be along shrotly to tell us what's what, but going from:

"there was this bloke who'd had a heart attack and the police were being pelted by bottles and bricks when they were trying to rescue him"

to

"this bloke get's beaten up by some copper in a riot suit and then dies"

is a bit of a jump, so you have to wonder if it wasn't a web of lies from the start?

a bit more serious than lewis hamilton telling a small porkie to gain an extra place in a race to blatently telling untruth's from the get go to cover up some bloke being dead

Less.

Its a hard one but the copper did lose his cool

ballin

iTrader: (1)

fucking awful, no comment on the story really, at first glance though I of course agree with Chip - but who knows the full story for sure? None of us....

Matt Bmw3evo

The media is notorious for always picking up bad stories and making them worse however in this case looking at the evidence, i.e the impartial video captured the evidence is fairly clear so far that the man was attacked.

The officer in question took actions and professional judgement upon himself to use that level of force to get a result. People may question what he has done however he obviously thought it nescecary at time.

Police are professionals, they are trained to deal with these situations, especially riot police.

There are 4 things to point out in this video.

1) it is not conclusive that the man died of a heart attack due to attack. However after the death has been investigated further evidence will be sought. Speculation is just that for now.

2) What was said to the man prior to his attack?

3) why didnt the other officers help the man, what was the man saying to the police afterwards?

4) why did the officer decide to strike him, what were his motives from the evidence availabl. In my eyes it is seen as unprofessional and a gross misconduct. The officer in question should loose his job at least. that is clear in the evidence.

There is much un-answered so hard to pass full judgement until more evidence it available IMO.

I work on Moorgate and for most part the demonstrations were civilised and organised.

danneth

someone explain to me as im abit thick, but wether the guy was part of it or not he had his back to the police and was walking away and they needed to use force why?

tejy

iTrader: (1)

cops are wankerrs

jameswrx

As others have stated.. the police would most probably have been telling him to move off, he was diliberately dragging his heels, he kept his hands in his pockets (the police would have ordered him to remove his hands from his pockets) thus insinuating he was concealing a weapon. He knew exactly what he was doing IMO.

People just love to jump on the bandwagon, but there's 2 sides to every story and just by his body language you can see he's trying to be a pain. If he's ignored orders to remove his hands from his pockets to show he is without a weapon then I'm not suprised at them pushing him away.

fuzzy

im suspicious. why would an innocent bystander minding his own business walk directly between the line of police with barking dogs and the protesters in a tense stand off situation? surely someone not involved would have walked around and kept well back? ive been in my fair share of similar situations at the football so know exactly how the police over react but if your not involved you'd stay well clear.

Mark_1

when two dogs are barking around your legs and 15police officers stand around you shouting to move away, you dont stroll along with your hands in your pockets, this is clearly to provoce the police.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

I occasionally have people try and provoke me, a recent roadrage incident for example that I mentioned on here.

However, someone attempting to provoke me doesnt give me the excuse to use violence against them when they have their back to me.

I assume that the police officer knows enough about the law to realise he also isnt allowed to just violently assualt someone cause he is provoked?

So wether the man was goading them or not, doesnt change the criminal nature of the assualt.

PeterD

Just on the news, 2nd autopsy ordered for criminal inquiry.

Kris_23

Used to buy my paper off the fella every night.

shocking to be honest

Mark_1

so you think every officer that hits someone with a club in a riot should be prosecuted, and every k9 officer that lets his dog attack a hostile person, and every officer that breaks a suspects arm under arrest should be put to jail?
Every situation demand different use of force, and when 15coppers stand against 500 rioting people you can not give people that dont listen a gentle touch.

B16JUS

if someone isnt doing as asked by ther police then they should be arrested not beaten !

Mark_1

better start building jails then...

Chip

iTrader: (3)

You think that was a riot at that moment in time do you?

Nonsense.

It was a situation that you are welcome to argue had the potential to turn into a riot, but it was clearly not a riot at the time.

cheeky dog

shocking the amount of people who think "in a riot police can push you over"

didn't look like a riot at the time, im sure they could have moved him along without the filth putting all his force behind a violent shove from behind!

i'll remember this from now tho, when someone doesn't do what i say i'll just come flying from behind with a rugby tackle!

fuzzy

thats common practice by the police in situations like this. it will happen dozens of times in stand offs.the police wont ask you to move politely because if your in the middle of it your the problem your not an innocent bystander.and when it does happen the police will stick together and not help. its just unfortunate that the guy happened to have a heart attack and die.
the police will act with force to prevent it turning into a riot.
if that shocks you you must have had a sheltered upbringing.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Fuzzy, the police "sticking together" is one thing, but lieing about it together is another entirely.

ben_frst

the guy was not just walkin home by the looks of it and was obstructing the police who where trying to prevent any type of riot situation however thats a pretty hard shove to give someone whos expecting it let alone an old guy from behind after a kneed strike

so just to recap the guys a d**k for going near the protest and obstructing the cops

and all coppers are bast**ds who can do what they like when they like with minimal or no charge

might sign up, already threaterning behavior on my CV

fuzzy

for sure but theres not many who will want to be the one grassing on another officer.
the act itself ive seen many a time at the football and been on the receiving end of worse . its the coppers bad luck that the guy happend to have a heart attack and die.
to me the guy that died looked like he was acting in a manner to goad the coppers . you wouldnt walk there if you were an innocent bystander on his way home. if you put yourself within striking distance you will get battoned. its hit first ask questions later. thats just how it is and if you dont like it you dont get in the way.