dojj

iTrader: (3)

let's see now:

the safety car is out
the team radio crackles into life
"lewis, you need to slow down so that the guy behind you can overtake"
"but the safety car is out"
"we'll deffo get 3rd place"
"isn't that cheating?"
"not if they don't find out "
"ok then "

and then they've all got the start of a major because maclaren seem to be going back to their cheating ways...............

just by being implicated means that he's guilty, he would have realised that his team were telling him to perform "unsportmanlike conduct" and could have refused

if that story had come out he would have gone up a whole lot in my estimation, i might have even thought of his title challenge differently, with an obviously poorer performing car than some others and still playing it by the rules rather than snagging himself some sly points at the cost to another team

this is going to be very hard to get out of the shadow of

It's Czech Mate

intersrestingly her is the official comment from Whitmarsh

There was no lie in that hearing," said Whitmarsh, who claims the team's error at the hearing was in not providing full information about a radio conversation with Hamilton instructing him to let Trulli overtake him.

"We, the team, made a mistake. We did not provide a full account of a radio conversation which we believe was being listened to in any case, and we don't believe was material to the decisions being made by the stewards."

Whitmarsh confirmed comments made by Hamilton in the immediate aftermath of the race that the team instructed its driver to let Trulli pass him.

Explaining exactly what happened after Hamilton overtook Trulli, when the Toyota driver ran off the track at the final corner, Whitmarsh said McLaren had been trying to play it safe.

"As we see it, what happened here is that during the closing stages of the Australian Grand Prix, under difficult conditions, there was a safety car incident whereby Jarno Trulli fell off the circuit and Lewis [Hamilton] could legitimately pass Trulli. I don't think that is in question," he explained.

"Once that had happened, of course, the team could not see it. Lewis informed the team that he had passed Trulli – and there was understandably concern within the team that he had passed Trulli under a safety car.

"At that time, we did not know that Trulli was right off the circuit and Lewis was asked to give back the place to Trulli. That was a team view, having not seen it, and we thought it was the safest thing to do.

"Once that instruction was given to Lewis, he did not agree. He said: ‘Look, the guy was off the circuit, I didn't need to do this.' A discussion was occurring and before that discussion was finished, Trulli had re-passed. If we look at the speed traces at that time, and compare it to other periods behind the safety car, then Lewis did not do anything abnormal. And I think it is also quite clear that Trulli should not have re-passed.

"As soon as that happened, we then spoke to Race Control, to explain that and ask if we could retake that place. At the time, understandably Race Control was busy and they were not able to give us an answer. We asked several times, but clearly they were very busy. So we had to then deal with it. We felt it would be resolved by the stewards after the race.

"At the stewards' meeting, we mistakenly believed that the stewards were aware, Charlie [Whiting] was there, and the FIA was there, of that radio conversation. The stewards now believe that we were not explicit enough about that radio conversation, and felt therefore that that was prejudicial to the decision that they reached. Obviously we regret that, and that was a mistake by the team, but we have got to accept the decision that has now been made."

McLaren has decided not to appeal the stewards' decision, which promoted Trulli to the third place that Hamilton originally had in Australia.

Whitmarsh added: "I think it is a regrettable day, and the fact is, the belief is, that we were not explicit. But I don't believe that that information would have made any difference to the decisions and the deliberations at the time.

"It certainly was not a deliberate attempt. It is quite clear that the radio conversations are listened to by the FIA, they are open, and the FIA was present during that hearing. So in the opinion of the team representative, there was a belief that it was known and there had been a conversation with the FIA."

Hamilton was unavailable for comment, having left the track shortly after the FIA decision was made.

Graham S1

Especially when you base all your onions on hearsay and speculation and not facts.

dojj

iTrader: (3)

get back to the contresery kitchen and gets some of that hateraid inside you

what the big mac's are telling us is that they thought everyone knew what was going on and are playing the "ignorance" card, and we all know that ignorance of the law is not an excuse

i think it's purely damage limitation at the moment

Rich_w

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8q27gzS4C4

Radio transmission Hamilton to Pits. They screwed up, but had emailed the FIA to see what to do then the race finished.

"Allegedly"

That's meant to be the gist of it.

Stop/ Go's STILL aren't appealable. That's why Toyota didn't appeal it. However, the FIA found out they had been duped and DQ's LH which made Trullis penalty also incorrect. So they recinded that too.

gaz s1

F1 is just shite with all this crap, roll on the touring cars sunday

Steven_RW

I really enjoyed the race - the way it looks to me is that hamilton drove fair on the day and it was just the silly bugger stuff that happened in the investigation that was unfair.

He is a great driver and mclaren are a great team.

F1 winners are those who manage to bend the rules the furthest...

RW

dojj

iTrader: (3)

but not for those who break them eh

It's Czech Mate

Depends whether you're German with a big chin or not

ian_evs2003

im not keen on hamilton,,, but fair play to him from coming from the back to 3,,, he deserved somthing..

dojj

iTrader: (3)

but when he bent the rules, they made sure those rules were made less bendable

breaking the ruels and bending them are 2 different thigns mate

It's Czech Mate

How was driving into the side of Damon in Australia ' bending the rules' Dojj?

How was thin barge boards on the Bennetton for a whole season ( as revealed at a later date ) 'bending' the rules. He blatently cheated on more than one occasion and more than blind eyes were turned

What happened in Australia was disgusting but hey ho thats for another thread another day

Steven_RW

In my view, Schuey pushed and bent the rules massively and got away with it. Sometimes he broke them and was punished quite fairly. Still a total legend of a guy.

RW

Big G

If you wanna see some racing, a few overtaking manouvres dished out and the result decided at the chequered flag then Sunday Eurosport2 at 9.30am

It's Czech Mate

I totally agree, but IMO there was no hiding from ramming Damon off but the FIA seemed happy with that. It was blatent cheating.

jumpin jack crash

i said it wasnt what???

he lost 6 points by lying to gain 1 place and got found out so he deserves fuck all from the race as he tried to cheat the system. there not gonna give him back 4th place and say unlucky lewis, nice try!

maybe at the end of the season when the 6 points maybe count to whether he wins the championship or not him and his team might think twice before trying to cheat again..

thats the be all and end all of it lee.

Steven_RW

Yeah - I am sure Senna did a similar thing to Prost - just turned in and purposefully wiped them both out. I am sure lots of that is to do with ego, with the aim of making everyone else scared to go wheel to wheel with you.

RW

Graham S1

Now Hamiltons getting done for speeding in the pitlane. He might as well give up now.

Turbosystems

iTrader: (5)

wonder if it would have been the same outcome if hamilton was driving a red car

ECU Monitor Enthusiast

iTrader: (1)

Too many rules and regs in F1.

It would seem to me that equallity of how drivers/teams are treated in F1 is the similar method used for PF users

Phil

iTrader: (1)

Well it looks like it was entirely McLaren in the wrong, and they deserve the punishment they got for trying to gain a place by covering their tracks.

I just hope the FIA don't go too far and DQ Hamilton from the entire season.

It's Czech Mate

http://allenonf1.wordpress.com/


Strange for McLarent not to present a unified front like normal.

A change in direction now Whitmarsh has the helm, or just damage limitation and Davey Ryan made a scapegoat for the good of the team?

Either way, naieve of Lewis and poor form by Mclaren.

alan12112

so Trulli was behind Hamilton at the time of the sc

Trulli then passed Hamilton ("cos he was going slow")

Trulli got 3rd but was deemed to of passed Hamilton under the sc so was demoted, whats the problem?

c'mon guys what've I missed I can't watch the youtbue vids cos i'm at work right now

jumpin jack crash

it would be harsh to dq hamilton from the whole season but i do think the punuishment was still a little light. maybe a 1 race ban for the whole mclaren team would stop this sort of behaviour.

im not a hamilton hater by the way. i just think he's let himself down by taking this stance after he'd raced out of his skin to get from 18th to 4th and its disappointing to see anyone cheat in sport.

Steven_RW

hamilton passed trulli when trulli went off the road (believe this was just before the SC was deployed)

Hamilton wanted to know if he should let trulli past again and asked his team

team said nothing but hamilton let him through

trulli said he passed back through as hamilton was going so slow, he assumed he had broken down. So basically hamilton made him have to overtake (from how I read it)

Trulli got in big trouble for it and mclaren said nothing

It was then found that mclaren had created the situation and had NOT said anything about it when they saw trulli getting punished.

when this was found out, they got in trouble

RW

Porkie

iTrader: (1)

Got it. Thanks mate

Phil

iTrader: (1)

Not quite,

The team instructed Hamilton to allow Trulli to retake position, which Hamilton did.

After the race Hamilton spoke to the media and told them what had happened as in the radio conversation above. In the meantime, his team had launched an appeal with the stewards to say that 3rd place was rightfully Lewis' (which it should have been). In the meeting with the stewards, the team manager instructed Lewis something to the effect of to say that he did not let Trulli re-take and there were no orders from the team to do so and that Trulli had just overtaken under the safety car for no reason. (I don't think the FIA have released exactly what was said in the stewards hearing.)

Obviously this was a bit fat lie, and was a very strange thing to do seen as they had 1 point to gain and everything to lose.

alan12112

Thanks for that Steve think i've got it now but...

It seems to me that the only issue is why did Trulli go off the road?

If he had lost hydraullic pressure for a few secs or his gearbox wouldn't select a gear temporarily then Hamilton should of been infront IMO. But if he had just hit the anchors as he was aware it was a safety car situation and Lewis hadn't yet known then Lewis is at fault as he should of let him past - which he did?

So is the problem the fact that MacLaren launched an appeal rather than an investigation?

Maybe Lewis should just paint a big bullseye on his race suit so at least the stewards can have some fun when they all line up and try and brick on his chest

and before all you haters start i'm not by any means a Hamilton fan boy - Alonso is my fav on the grid followed by Button then Lewis :P

Graham S1

He's now eaten a large helping of humble pie. With custard.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/moto...ne/7981273.stm

He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy!

orion_crazy_carl

iTrader: (3)

I know he is really sorry for what he has done, but is that only because he got caught??
if it wasn't investigated know of us would of known a thing and he would still be the golden boy!

Toe Knee

iTrader: (2)

Gutted really as theres probably gonna be a meeeting at work next week to let us know whats going on and i'm on hol

The team fucked up, lewis has been punished and that should be the end of it!! All this talk bout banning him the whole season is utter shite!!! how many drivers before now have done things to gain an advantage.

He's now learnt his first big lesson in his F1 career, one of many im sure he's going to learn along the way!! banning him won't do the sport any favours at all so lets just hope they let it be and move on with the season!!

Physio

Rich_w

I like the part where they are so keen to keep the pressur off Lulu they are happy to sacrifice a guy whose been with McLaren longer than Ron Dennis! Also Lulu was so adament to play it straight he surely would have overruled Ryans testimony. Or at least questioned the validity of their strategy.

Saying that, any lawyer worth his salt would always advise his client to shut up, so hardly an unusual tactic.

What they SHOULD have done is just said "We were confused" They had emailed Charlie (who cannot give a decision anyway, just an "opinion" ) showing intent to comply with the regulations.

Ultimately they tried to get an extra few points by screwing Trulli. (who has always been shite!) And got caught. They just aren't as good at it as the other teams

Toe Knee

iTrader: (2)

Stupid really as 4th would have been more than good enough this early in the season!!

Not a good start to poor Whitmarsh's first season in the healm

Coldo

Cheat.

dojj

iTrader: (3)

so someone tells you to lie or at least forget to give a full account of what happened and you are saying he should have gone along with it and not called ron to tell him and ask his advice?

it's not as if they were going to sack him were they, and i for one would have ben mightly impressed when that story would have come out rather than the way it's all been found out now with him basicly groveling and claiming he was stupid and nieve?

he's smarter than that surely

Stu @ Claims Care Centre

iTrader: (1)

sorry im being reall thick but..... trulli comes off the road (safety car not out at this point) so hamilton overtakes (fair move) safety car gets deployed trulli overtakes hamilton....... surely he shouldnt have overtook hamilton when safety car was deployed full stop?????

Steven_RW

Hamilton pretty much forced trulli to overtake cos he slowed down so much that trulli thought the mclaren was broken.

That part was reviewed and at the time the still blamed trulli and he was 25 second stop go'd after the race. However it was the fact hamilton did not tell all the truth that got him in the trouble. He held back info to purposefully make sure that trulli's situ came off worse.

Thats about it really.

RW

MARCOSWORTH

iTrader: (24)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAm88lPPn-s