hicost

Looking for anyones opinion on switching "on" water injection. I have a switch which arms it, and at the moment it is set to come on once armed at about 52c via the ECU (P8)

I have noticed that some systems switch on with boost pressure, I do have the means of switching this way as well. What do people think the best way is?

Also how much time do you get on average to say 1ltr of water?

Thanks


James

Rod-Tarry

Mine comes on at 40c but only when more than 10psi is present.
Surely yours will be on with heat soak everytime time you slow down.
I dont use water but a 50/50 Methanol mix over twice as efficient.

Turbosystems

iTrader: (5)

if you are using the pectel p8 ,it uses throttle angle pressure and act, all this points are changeable within the software

pacwest

I had my old system rigged to a pressure switch. I got said switch from the breakers off a Volvo 740 turbo bulkhead. Dug the glue out to get at the set screw and adjusted it to suit.

hicost

Okay so reading between the lines, it does not make much difference if it is switched on by the ECU or the boost pressure?

MadRod, considering the heat soak issue, I would be better running it on boost pressure maybe? I am mapped upto about 31psi so if I used a pressure switch to come on at 20psi?

Turbosystems

iTrader: (5)

have you missed this

hicost

Sorry yes I did, I realise it is possible to change the temp in the software, but thinking about it, with the heat soak issues that may not be the best way for me. If I did it with pure pressure I can adjust this from the VR on the switch.

I think mine is set quite high 50 / 52 to try to dial out the heat soak otherwise it would be on most of the time ounce armed.

Turbosystems

iTrader: (5)

if you are worried about heat soak just move the act sensor to the cold side of the intercooler
try not to think about your pectel WI strategies too much, they were developed at a cost of muchoo money by some seriously clever people
the early settings were on at 40 degrees off at 38 of act this was moved up some what as it lost power and used a lot of water
have you logged your act's

hicost

Hi, so my act sensor is the "brown one" in the plenum, I have an outlet on the cold side of the IC which was used for a dump valve a few years ago I could turn down a bung and use this yes? As I have ALS I dont need the DV

I have just made lots of changes to my inlet side and its a fresh engine just off the dyno, I want to RR it soon so I can log the ACT with and without water then, so I am just trying to find the best setup now, In your opinion what "on and off" temps would you set it at?

James

Turbosystems

iTrader: (5)

around 50 on and 2 degrees C lower for off
I would be more concerned about monitoring your act with it off and that your intercooler is efficient enough to keep the act's within acceptable ranges,considering the current ambiants .Youre water injection shouldn't really be active in the current weather.If it is i would be looking else where.
We can map and alter all your current water injection switch on /off points on the map you already have.
Send me a copy off the chip if you wish me to look at them and tell you what they are currently set at
The brown sensor in the middle of the inlet manifold is the act sensor

GARETH T

its better to try and get the water injection not to switch on at all! maybe different size turbo or remodeling your intercooler!

hicost

As you can see from the following pictures, space is a huge issue. I have spent a few years getting it as is, its used mainly in the mountains, I am looking at the water injection to help with densing up the air once the act's go high. Very little more I can do. Currently T38 ported and around 450bhp.

Garage19

I'm currently knocking up a simple box of tricks that will read a set voltage (0-5v related to temp) form a cossie ACT sensor and use this as a trigger point in series with a pressure switch to fire the WI.

So the WI will only fire if ACT are say 40 deg + AND pressure 7 psi +.

I'm going to be using it to trigger the WI on a mates 250 bhp turbo Bandit 1200.

Does anybody know the resistance curve of a cossie ACT sensor to save me measuring and plotting it?

PGT

hicost:

if you are getting high ACT it looks like the positioning of the intercooler may be a cause. clearly heat soak will be an issue given its position (in fact during standing traffic with the rad fan on you may actualy be positievly heating it up by blwoing hot engine cooling air onto it)

it appears from your pictures that the intercooler is almost horizontal and if thats the case then what is creating a pressure differential across the core in order to promote airflow?

GARETH T

its in one of the cosworth manuals,, but i cant find mine anywhere

jon@work

iTrader: (5)

same as this :

http://www.mmcompsys.com/download_zo...ntc_web_01.pdf

hicost

If you look at the pics in the sig you will see the nose cone has lots of cut outs. Also there is a big gap between the top of the radiator and the bottom of the IC. It is dammed off at the back and the sides so the air gets forced through the IC and sucked out the slots.

I can do nothing about stationery heat soak, the gap between the rad and the IC is partioned off so hot air is sucked through the rad and cannot directly rise into the IC.

The car does not like stationery traffic, I have just fitted a "beneton F1" rad in the side pod as additional cooling.

James

PGT

Hi James,

what causes the air to get 'sucked out of the slots'? would that not require the pressure under the intercooler to be higher than the pressure on top of the nose cone?

the air pressure under the intercooler must turn through 90 degrees to even go through it whereas the air flowing over the nose cone will have no such restriction thus actually being greater than the pressure below the cooler.

i have a rush and have the same problems as you with finding space for the intercooler and also a decent engine rad. finished up fitting an air /water unit.

good luck but i reckon repositioning the intercooler is more of a priority than fitting water injection

Daxcossie

I am in the process of modding a Subaru bonnet scoop to fit onto the nose of the Rush.

I hope that this, together with ducting inside the nose will be enough to force more air through the 4x4 intercooler and still keep the radiator air supply separate.

Will be similar to this, but have a scoop to boot.

http://forum.daxsportingclub.com/php...t=0&hilit=nose

I am already running flared side panels, so there should be enough room for air to escape around the engine bay.

We will see......

PGT

are you going to use the dax supplied fibreglass panel that directs the air (which has passed thorugh the intercooler) upwards and exits in front of the cam wheels, and then use the subaru scoop so that it creates a depression to assist this air exiting?

hicost

If you look at the nose cone, its almost impossible to see but the leading edge of each of the cut outs has an ally strip sticking up about 1.0cm

This causes a vortex and the air pressure behind the strip is sucked out.

I dont no how much expirience you have of seven type cars is but space and cooling are a problem no matter who makes them. My ict come down quickly once moving, prolonged use of the loud pedal will force them up, but we are talking upto 30psi which will bring any IC temp up on prolonged use.

Daxcossie

Im going to leave the air to exit under the bonnet to start with and see how things go.

As you say, if I do decide to duct the outlet air from the intercooler the scoop placement will help let the air escape whilst driving at speed.

polly_x

iTrader: (2)

Cant think where you got that idea from!

Ive spent 2 years trying different ways to get this problem sorted as its not easy!

Tried various ways but what I have now works best (so far) I have an intercooler about half the size of an RS500 one (60mm Core) that sits flat under the nose and a Carbon fibre later type Subaru scoop to catch the air onto the cooler. The nose is sealed down onto the cooler once fitted so all air has to go through.

I also run WI for when things heat up, but agree with Tony. Dont worry about messing around with all the Wi settings as they are well tried and tested in the first place.

Works pretty well but these things can always be improved upon.

Hicost, what exhaust manifold are you running on your car to get that power?

Just realised......look at my Sig to see what I have on mine.

hicost

Standard 4x4 with a fairly unique inlet (different from sig) It would be useful to see some pics of your IC setup

James

ECU Monitor Enthusiast

iTrader: (1)

Do you actually have charge temperature issues or are you just fitting it because you think you need it ?

I found that it was more trouble than its worth compared to the gains in my 450bhp engine.

I also notice you "may" have NOS on there which kind of negates having water ..IMO

polly_x

iTrader: (2)

You might want to look at the exhaust manifold then as you will be struggling at 450 horses using the 4x4 one. (I doubt you will get that much power)

I found that my car would make no more than 440 with one fitted. If you turned the boost up it just seemed to generate more heat but no more power so also probably adding to your problems.

Got tonnes of pics at home.

PM your address or MSN details and can send some over.

Be good to discuss as this is a problem ive faced.

Ta

hicost

Hi

What you think is NOS is my water injection pump!

I agree about it being trouble to do, its just I do have high temps and being able to dense the charge up should make a little difference.

I no I said I was going to ring you regarding a project, I have just not been able to get the time. Looking forward to your software release soon.

James

Daxcossie

Stu,

In your opinion will I get enough air flow through the scoop to cool the 4x4 intercooler.

Im not sure if I will still need some additional air flow from the main nose inlet (I had planned to totally separate the rad air from the intercooler supply ?

Alex

pauljh

iTrader: (1)

Try this !

polly_x

iTrader: (2)

Alex, that looks similar to mine except I have the intercooler flat underneath.

I think the trick is to ensure you get all the air through the cooler so ensure it cant go elsewhere.

pauljh

iTrader: (1)

Try this !

http://forum.daxsportingclub.com/php...t=425&start=70

pauljh

iTrader: (1)

Hi James,

I think i met you once down at Joe's at .Bluesprint Engineering, Ben was tweeking your engine.

Daxcossie

Stu,

What kind if any oil cooler are you running on your car ?

If you are running one, where did you decide to mount it ?

Alex

Porkie

iTrader: (1)

Spooky... just this very SECOND bought a Water injection kit of Will @ MSD!

Porkie

iTrader: (1)

Can you knock up two of those please?

tabetha

My ecu supports this, so might be an idea to monitor temps to see whats what.
Good idea if I need it what temps would you consider it needed ?
tabetha

polly_x

iTrader: (2)

Hi Alex both mine and Lee's run Mocal coolers. I think they are 8 row and both mounted in the nose about 8 inches behind the radiator. Both work fine and if anything keep the oil a little too cool.

I think Lee said he saw 100 degrees max even when batting the living daylights out of his car at Bedford. The temp is measured in the sump.

Stu