alanfordtw-15

a local fella seized his 4x4 cosworth engine on the way up the hill to my garage to diagnose the problem! turns out there was a hole in his sump and he lost all oil.
he had been driving home at night and hit a big bump or something sharp and obviously put a hole in the sump, loosing all oil. for whatever reason the oil light never came on, i suspect because he changed the dash and never done it right so it wasnt working in the first place
anyway he noticed it wasnt running right on the way home and the next day drove it to my garage still not running right until the engine sized on the way up the hill to it. he said there was no boost.
we towed it up put oil in it and it was running like a two cylinder chainsaw and would hardly idle until it would eventually cut out. in all he maintains the engine was running for about 15 mins with no oil adding up the drive home and the drive to my garage and some idling in between.
we checked compression on all cylinders and all are even at 7.1/.2 bar, but the engine is still obviously fu#ked so is on the way out of the car.
question is does anyone know what are the main areas to look for damage when the engine is taken apart and how extensive the damage will be?
we,re currently weighing up either rebuilding it or fitting a replacment unit.
its a shame as it had a full rebuild a year ago in england with group A pistons, bd10 cams, new t34 ect.

AlexD

iTrader: (3)

DOH !...

pee vee

crank will probably be blue. and scored and fooked.

turbo will be fooked.

cams will probably be scored along with the carriers (so the head basically)

basically any moving part of the engine, will be almost certainly be damaged.
If he has been running it literally until it sized.

155lee

iTrader: (10)

is it possible that it had no boost as the turbo has seized due to the oil problem,i would expect the crank and all the bearings to be knckered and maybe the head where the cam journals are due to the oil starvation.ive found with fords,the cvh especially that by the time the light comes on its too late anyway.

GUZZLER

iTrader: (3)

Probably need a full rebuild, turbo rebuild at least....

alanfordtw-15

yes it ran until it siezed because when it failed to come up the hill the starter would not turn the engine over any more.
that is also what i was thinking as to why it wasnt boosting. even though the turbo is still spinning freely with minimal play.
no doubt it is badly damaged too.
if the crank is blue does that mean it has overheated and warped?

alo

most rods and cranks from cossie's i've seen are blued.
It size and surface finish you want to check.

nickywarwick

not having ago or anything mate but are you a mechanic?


s it stll on english plates? reg colour (totaly diffrent subject btw)

indycos

iTrader: (2)

im going to sound really stupid (mostly because im not clever in this department )

what does this blue crank thing mean? learning something new everyday!

nickywarwick

extreme heat build up, the silver turns blue,

pee vee

the scoring bit was more the thing i was on about! lol

alo

Not to be confused with engineers blue used for marking out.
Check on google or a search engine for a heat treating diagram.
As steel is heated it changes colour depending on what temperature its at.

stage 3 muppet

most cossy cranks ive seen always have some blueing on them

Barry R

iTrader: (3)

[quote=nickywarwick;3903911]not having ago or anything mate but are you a mechanic? quote]


Thats what i was thinking wouldnt bring my car to you sorry

indycos

iTrader: (2)

thanks didnt know that, and now i do

dom123

iTrader: (1)

have you repaired the hole? have you filled it right up with oil again? have you checked the oil pressure since? is it the same as before it broke? i would leave it running to see if it gets better you've nothing to lose as it full rebuild anyway.

JTECH James

iTrader: (13)

the only way you will know what damage its done is to strip it, inspect all parts.

nobody can tell you what damage has been caused over the internet, but in a breif summary...its fucked.

Barry R

iTrader: (3)

I think alot of you has missed the fact that he is a mechanic that clearly knows not a lot

RS 500,

iTrader: (1)

its fooked.. get another engine and turbo.

sell the head and the rest as spares.

NEIL A

iTrader: (6)

https://passionford.com/forum/ford-rs-cosworth-parts-for-sale/271916-big-spec-yb-550-bhp-spec-updated.html

alanfordtw-15

to all the internet mechanics who question capability but have nothing useful to add themselves ,no im not a mechanic and have nothing to do with the motor trade, where did i ever say i was?. when i say garage i mean the one i park my car in, and the reason he was bringing it to me is to see if i had any idea why it wasn,t running right as he knows i have a cosworth myself.
the problem seemed fairly minor until the point we found no oil.
have ye ever brought a car to a mate that might know a bit more than you to have a look at a problem?
i never realised you had to have such quailifications to take an engine out of a car to help a fella and ask a question!


dom123 yes we repaired the hole and put it running with oil but it would hardly run at all and after cutting out a few times failed to start any more.
then we came to the inevitable conclusion that its fucked.

alanfordtw-15

ha ha was looking at it last nite mate! thanks

Glenn_

iTrader: (1)

Comic he should of got out and check to see what the noise was when he heard the bang noise.

RWD_cossie_wil

iTrader: (9)

Engine out, strip for inspection down to the last nut and bolt. It is the only way to determine the extent of the damage, but no oil I would expect fucked crank, fucked pistons/bore, head+ cams will prob be scrap due to pick-up, oil pump scrap, to be honest I will be amazed if there is much usable from the internals bar maybe the block with a re-bore and the crank with a grind...

Barry R

iTrader: (3)

fair enough then pal my apologies as for it you gona have to strip her down

Rs Cosworth 1

Now thats proper gutting!

But not been funny you would feel hitting summat that sharp to put a hole in it yeah?!!!

So why not stop and check it cos i bloody well would!!! lol

alanfordtw-15

thanks for that mate, good advice

yes you,d think he would have stopped to have a look but the temptation to drive the further 5 mins home must have been too much.
shit happens i suppose.
engine will be sent awy to murphys engine overhauls cork, so i will post up the damage they come up with at a later date

nickywarwick

i too must apologse, but if your not a mechanic or dont no alot about engines i wouldnt even start to take the engine out if i were you specaly not a 4x4. if you no a little bit take the head off & have a poke around if theres alot of damage at the top chances are thers sum at the bottom. + you will be able to check the bores for scoring,

alanfordtw-15

no bother mate. the word 'garage' was a bit misleading alright i must admit.
i know enough to take it in and out, have done a fair few in my time. just dont have a lot of experience with internals ect, as normally try and avoid going that deep into them as its so expensive. we will take the head off alright and look for anything obvious before it goes away.
my guess is the damage will be fairly obvious to the eye

Skotie jay

first things that shity man
but he should of at least had a mooch an he would of seen the problem b4 he looked under neithe

im not a mechanic but a few mates have been stung by tunners
i personnal would do what you've dun find the damage. it not hard to strip an engine jus hard to find the problems lmao but good luck an hop it aint to bad

nickywarwick

it shud be mate, cylnder lines should be smooth & shiney, if there scratched in anyway it has picked up. scores will be straigh up & down. look for deformation on the head, (put it on a flat surface & look for gaps underneath). try turning it over by hand when the head is off & check all 4 bores.

if you can take an engine out you shud be capable of rebulding 1, the damage on this engine should be fairly obvius.
the hardest part mo is puttng the engnes back in propely & tidy.

alanfordtw-15

thanks for the advice. just home from taking the engine out, fairly easy and straightforward. will tidy up car and get it rolling to send it away to his home tomorrow and then will start looking into the engine.
also found the possible cause as to why the oil pressure light did not work. connected to the oil pressure switch under the inlet manifold was a soild brown wire with an 8mm hole crimp connection. but floating in mid air connected to nothing very near this was a brown/green wire with the same crimp connection on it which im sure is the ford oil pressure wire colours.
can anyone confirm or correct me about this?
thanks

SS1

iTrader: (3)

bad news

dojj

iTrader: (3)

turn the ignition on and touch one then the other to the block to see when the engine light comes on to know for sure

you may still be able to use the block with a rebore, but i'm not sure if you could use anything else int eh engine, and even then the block may still be scrap if it's got too ho and distorted

he may be lucky and get away with a new set of bearings, but 15 minutes with no oil and the engine then siezes sounds mightly expensive to put right

olek

i don't know about you guys, but i want to see some pictures of this!

mechanical oil pressure gauge <3 <3

JohnnyB

years ago, when I was about 7 or 8 my mom had a Datsun 120Y in South Africa and she drove I would say about 20 miles with out any oil, the sump plug had fallin out. She noticed the oil light comming on, but did not want to stop in a dodgy place. My brother-in-law filled it up with oil and it run fine for another 5 years before she sold it.