Penalty points for passengers in a car.
18-01-2009, 06:16 AM
#1
Penalty points for passengers in a car.
A mate was saying that in some situations a passenger in a car can get penalty points for driving offences commited while in the car.
What circumstances are these?????
Surely the driver is always 100% responsible for driving offences?? (unless your supervising a learner i guess)
And if passengers can get points then how do they punish those without a license/under 17 for the same offences without there being an unfair penalty for the passenger with a license.
Also the same mate reckons you can get penalty points on a pedal cycle
Im after info from those who KNOW not speculation as ive had a enough of that with my mate
What circumstances are these?????
Surely the driver is always 100% responsible for driving offences?? (unless your supervising a learner i guess)
And if passengers can get points then how do they punish those without a license/under 17 for the same offences without there being an unfair penalty for the passenger with a license.
Also the same mate reckons you can get penalty points on a pedal cycle
Im after info from those who KNOW not speculation as ive had a enough of that with my mate
18-01-2009, 08:20 AM
#2
PassionFord Post Whore!!
What substance was your mate on when he uttered these comments?
The only occasion is a when full licence holder is accompanying a learner.
For example the accompanying driver can get points for being on a phone.
.
The only occasion is a when full licence holder is accompanying a learner.
For example the accompanying driver can get points for being on a phone.
.
Last edited by focusv8; 18-01-2009 at 08:21 AM.
18-01-2009, 08:49 AM
#4
Professional Waffler
Sounds like complete bollocks.
Mind you there was that guy who got banned for DD after being stopped completely wasted on a push bike. Pretty sure he appealed against it seeing as you don't need a lisence to ride a push bike (fucking should do with how some of the kamikazee twats ride about though)
Mind you there was that guy who got banned for DD after being stopped completely wasted on a push bike. Pretty sure he appealed against it seeing as you don't need a lisence to ride a push bike (fucking should do with how some of the kamikazee twats ride about though)
18-01-2009, 08:50 AM
#5
this is correct.
last year near me a car crashed killing a female back seat passenger, the driver (a full licence holder) was drunk as was the passenger who owned the car the driver got 5 years jail and the passenger 4 years for "allowing him to do it"
I will try and dig out the article
steve
last year near me a car crashed killing a female back seat passenger, the driver (a full licence holder) was drunk as was the passenger who owned the car the driver got 5 years jail and the passenger 4 years for "allowing him to do it"
I will try and dig out the article
steve
18-01-2009, 08:55 AM
#6
steve but was that the typical bloke in passenger seat drunk supervising a learner?? (who in this case was also drunk )
Would be interesting to see the DD cyclist article and if he won on appeal!! To be fair if a copper tried to breathalyse me for drunk cycling id refuse as your not a driver, your a cyclist
)Would be interesting to see the DD cyclist article and if he won on appeal!! To be fair if a copper tried to breathalyse me for drunk cycling id refuse as your not a driver, your a cyclist
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18-01-2009, 08:58 AM
#8
Professional Waffler
With that case I can see how they done both as the owner of the car was present and the passenger was pissed while driving. If the owner is the driver I don't think they'd be able to do it
18-01-2009, 11:08 AM
#14
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some one i know lent his car to his mate who had no licence or insurance. he got banned for a week and a big fine, for letting him borrow the car
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18-01-2009, 11:41 AM
#16
Truthfully I dont know, but when I got done for Motor Racing on the Highway, it was one of the things that was discussed. Aside from needing 2 separate convictions for that offence (which is a VERY rare conviction, they usually go for Dangerous Driving as it's easier to convict for that), anyone that can be proven to have been supporting the instance can also be convicted.
18-01-2009, 12:03 PM
#17
PassionFord Post Whore!!
This guy got three points for failing to wear a seat-belt - as a passenger - but he's in Northern Ireland so rules may be different there. He lost an appeal, too.
http://jon44w.co.uk/forum/viewthread...=136870&page=1
http://jon44w.co.uk/forum/viewthread...=136870&page=1
18-01-2009, 12:04 PM
#18
14000+ post superhero
if the owner allows his car to be used by an uninsured driver for example the owner also gets done for it for allowing them to drive his car. if the owner is the driver the passengers wont get done.
18-01-2009, 12:29 PM
#19
This guy got three points for failing to wear a seat-belt - as a passenger - but he's in Northern Ireland so rules may be different there. He lost an appeal, too.
http://jon44w.co.uk/forum/viewthread...=136870&page=1
http://jon44w.co.uk/forum/viewthread...=136870&page=1
18-01-2009, 12:39 PM
#21
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A passenger cannot get points on their licence, unless they are supervising. You can only supervise as a full licence holder.
Passengers can be prosecuted for a number of things, however they will not get points. Examples include Allow carried in TWOC, and the very well publicised drink driving case mentioned above.
I'm not sure who told you that you can be prosecuted for watching street racing though. Might of been the Police trying to shit you up, thats the type of shite they often spew out so gullable people don't attend problem areas any more.
Passengers can be prosecuted for a number of things, however they will not get points. Examples include Allow carried in TWOC, and the very well publicised drink driving case mentioned above.
I'm not sure who told you that you can be prosecuted for watching street racing though. Might of been the Police trying to shit you up, thats the type of shite they often spew out so gullable people don't attend problem areas any more.
18-01-2009, 12:47 PM
#22
14000+ post superhero
there will be public order offences that will cover the gathering of people for illegal racing etc and the small print on a court letter i received stated that failing to pay the court imposed order could result in my car being seized even though it was an assault charge and totally unrelated to driving offences so anything is possible ..
18-01-2009, 12:49 PM
#23
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a few people from round by me have been given asbo's for watchin street racin and told if they go there again will have there car takin off them.
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18-01-2009, 12:51 PM
#24
PassionFord Post Whore!!
The original question was Points for passengers.
The only occasions are when the "Passenger" as in present in the car at the time of offence, is supervising and is in control of the vehicle.
So phone, drunk, drugs would apply.
Any passenger can be guilty of aiding and abetting, but wouldn't get points but could get jail.
The registered keeper can get points for failing to name a driver in a speeding fixed penalty case.
In the drunk death case above the owner who was present at time of offence couldn't have got points as he was not in control but he had allowed the driver to use the car and did have the power as owner to stop him, therefore is guilty of "Allowing use" but not causing.
You could argue that any full driving licence holder should know better if in a car with others who commit an offence or even on a bike and deserves to get fined and points, but the law doesn't allow points.
The story about the passenger hanging out the window and getting points is complete tosh.
.
The only occasions are when the "Passenger" as in present in the car at the time of offence, is supervising and is in control of the vehicle.
So phone, drunk, drugs would apply.
Any passenger can be guilty of aiding and abetting, but wouldn't get points but could get jail.
The registered keeper can get points for failing to name a driver in a speeding fixed penalty case.
In the drunk death case above the owner who was present at time of offence couldn't have got points as he was not in control but he had allowed the driver to use the car and did have the power as owner to stop him, therefore is guilty of "Allowing use" but not causing.
You could argue that any full driving licence holder should know better if in a car with others who commit an offence or even on a bike and deserves to get fined and points, but the law doesn't allow points.
The story about the passenger hanging out the window and getting points is complete tosh.
.
18-01-2009, 01:10 PM
#26
PassionFord Post Whore!!
Not law here although being proposed;
http://www.companycardriver.co.uk/ne...t_ID=325239755
However it was due to be law in N.I late last year from here;
http://www.northernireland.gov.uk/ne...rivers-and.htm
The penalty in respect of a driver or child passenger under 14 years not wearing a seat belt is a fixed penalty fine of Ł60 and three penalty points awarded to the driver or if convicted in court a fine up to Ł500. If the passenger is 14 years or over the fixed penalty is Ł30 or if convicted in court, a fine up to Ł500. Later this year, fixed penalty fines are expected to be harmonised at Ł60 and carry three penalty points.
http://www.companycardriver.co.uk/ne...t_ID=325239755
However it was due to be law in N.I late last year from here;
http://www.northernireland.gov.uk/ne...rivers-and.htm
The penalty in respect of a driver or child passenger under 14 years not wearing a seat belt is a fixed penalty fine of Ł60 and three penalty points awarded to the driver or if convicted in court a fine up to Ł500. If the passenger is 14 years or over the fixed penalty is Ł30 or if convicted in court, a fine up to Ł500. Later this year, fixed penalty fines are expected to be harmonised at Ł60 and carry three penalty points.
Last edited by focusv8; 18-01-2009 at 01:15 PM.
18-01-2009, 01:17 PM
#27
Thats only ROSPA saying it should happen. The DfT said nothing.
I do think theyd need to seriously review the whole penalty point system to bring that out as youd need a driver record for everyone in the country, licensed or not, just to record the points.
To be frank i think the penalty point system needs review anyway, especially with non-dangerous driving speeding offences as theyve been proven time and time again that its about revenue generation and has had little effect on its own on reducing deaths.
Bet the insurance companys would love the extra points. Id love to know how they could justify hiking your premium because you didnt wear a seatbelt as a passenger in someones car. its a risk thats not relevant to your policy!!
I do think theyd need to seriously review the whole penalty point system to bring that out as youd need a driver record for everyone in the country, licensed or not, just to record the points.
To be frank i think the penalty point system needs review anyway, especially with non-dangerous driving speeding offences as theyve been proven time and time again that its about revenue generation and has had little effect on its own on reducing deaths.
Bet the insurance companys would love the extra points. Id love to know how they could justify hiking your premium because you didnt wear a seatbelt as a passenger in someones car. its a risk thats not relevant to your policy!!
18-01-2009, 01:27 PM
#28
PassionFord Post Whore!!
A non driving passenger could never get points and doesn't necessarily know any better.
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Last edited by focusv8; 18-01-2009 at 01:28 PM.
18-01-2009, 02:11 PM
#29
just finding my feet
you dont get points for no seat belt over here, i get done on average once a year,,,, was done last week actually driving from my mates house down the road to the gym,,,,, had me stereo turned up loud and window down,, traffic where bothering some school kids and seen me waiting at a junction,,,, i was gonna put it on but it would have drawn attention, driving a impreza, stereo up, tattoo on neck and having a big built black guy in the passenger seat is ALWAYS gonna end up in being done for something,,,,, so just waited for him to walk over and ask me to pull to the side of the road
deffo no points though,,or i would start wearing my belt pmsl
deffo no points though,,or i would start wearing my belt pmsl
18-01-2009, 02:43 PM
#30
Regular Contributor
A passenger cannot get points on their licence, unless they are supervising. You can only supervise as a full licence holder.
Passengers can be prosecuted for a number of things, however they will not get points. Examples include Allow carried in TWOC, and the very well publicised drink driving case mentioned above.
I'm not sure who told you that you can be prosecuted for watching street racing though. Might of been the Police trying to shit you up, thats the type of shite they often spew out so gullable people don't attend problem areas any more.
Passengers can be prosecuted for a number of things, however they will not get points. Examples include Allow carried in TWOC, and the very well publicised drink driving case mentioned above.
I'm not sure who told you that you can be prosecuted for watching street racing though. Might of been the Police trying to shit you up, thats the type of shite they often spew out so gullable people don't attend problem areas any more.
18-01-2009, 03:12 PM
#31
just finding my feet
i know a few people who have been done for driving without a licence and insurance when stealing cars, think it was made law back in 97ish time, before that joyriding was just a caution
18-01-2009, 05:23 PM
#32
You need to be carefull about section 128, of the Road Traffic Act 1988, the ONUS to state who was driving ONLY becomes valid in law, once a crime has been commited.
I have a NIP here from 11/12/08 asking me who was driving my car at such and such a time, I told the rozzers to give me PHOTOGRAPHIC evidence as they suggested this had been seen by a camera van, or I staed failing that I would NOT divulge who was driving and considered thier request malicious, without evidence.
I am still waiting.
There has been no suggestion of speeding, and I pointed out also any NIP has to come about as evidence from a Police Officer, camera van men are civilians(in norfolk) so NIP cannot be issued as a result of their accusation, speeding is different as they have a photo, but even then must be agreed by a plod looking at photo first.
A full license holder can have point on his license if for example they break down, so learner is in seat steering car whilst it is pushed to side of road, this could result in points, just one example.
tabetha
I have a NIP here from 11/12/08 asking me who was driving my car at such and such a time, I told the rozzers to give me PHOTOGRAPHIC evidence as they suggested this had been seen by a camera van, or I staed failing that I would NOT divulge who was driving and considered thier request malicious, without evidence.
I am still waiting.
There has been no suggestion of speeding, and I pointed out also any NIP has to come about as evidence from a Police Officer, camera van men are civilians(in norfolk) so NIP cannot be issued as a result of their accusation, speeding is different as they have a photo, but even then must be agreed by a plod looking at photo first.
A full license holder can have point on his license if for example they break down, so learner is in seat steering car whilst it is pushed to side of road, this could result in points, just one example.
tabetha
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