Is there any justice in this world?
02-10-2008, 02:51 PM
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Is there any justice in this world?
one of my best friends friend's brother was killed a few months back, he was attacked for saying he didnt smoke and the impact of the punch which threw him to the floor killed him basically, the lad who pleaded guilty to manslaughter has been in court today
18 fucking months
for killing someone for no reason whatsoever. Im absolutely shocked. What sort of judge would pass a sentence that lenient?
The victims brother came out of court and this is what he said.
"The person who attacked Gavin was sentenced to 18-months imprisonment today for the killing.
As well as his father, brother and uncle being imprisoned for killing, the defendant also had three prior separate convictions for robbery, carrying a blade and racist intimidation as well as not honoring the terms of his current community service order
We are in total shock at the leniency the Judge has shown - he would not allow us to read out our Impact statement in court – which should be allowed under CPS guidelines, though he made reference to the letter the defendant had written to him explaining the distress this had caused his family, and how a prison sentence would mean he wouldn’t be around for his two kids.
Part 2:
On the night of the attack the defendant and the people hanging around with him on the streets had been drinking a crate of lager. He approached Gavin asking for a cigarette and Gavin told him ‘sorry mate, I don’t smoke’ to which he then punched Gavin, knocking him cold, with the impact of Gain’s head hitting the concrete causing massive head trauma
Basically, Gavin was instantly brain dead – and had no chance of survival. It is worth pointing out as well, that Gavin’s wallet and ID were not with him at the scene of the attack – but were found many hours later well away from the scene.
There is a logical inference that Gavin was also robbed, as the other’s present at the time of his attack have a track record of theft and burglary.
All we can ask is if you can send a little strength our way, as right now we feel as though Gavin has been killed for the second time "
If thats all the punishment people get its no wonder youths today dont take manslaughter or murder serious, its hardly a deterrent is it
Sarah
18 fucking months
for killing someone for no reason whatsoever. Im absolutely shocked. What sort of judge would pass a sentence that lenient?The victims brother came out of court and this is what he said.
"The person who attacked Gavin was sentenced to 18-months imprisonment today for the killing.
As well as his father, brother and uncle being imprisoned for killing, the defendant also had three prior separate convictions for robbery, carrying a blade and racist intimidation as well as not honoring the terms of his current community service order
We are in total shock at the leniency the Judge has shown - he would not allow us to read out our Impact statement in court – which should be allowed under CPS guidelines, though he made reference to the letter the defendant had written to him explaining the distress this had caused his family, and how a prison sentence would mean he wouldn’t be around for his two kids.
Part 2:
On the night of the attack the defendant and the people hanging around with him on the streets had been drinking a crate of lager. He approached Gavin asking for a cigarette and Gavin told him ‘sorry mate, I don’t smoke’ to which he then punched Gavin, knocking him cold, with the impact of Gain’s head hitting the concrete causing massive head trauma
Basically, Gavin was instantly brain dead – and had no chance of survival. It is worth pointing out as well, that Gavin’s wallet and ID were not with him at the scene of the attack – but were found many hours later well away from the scene.
There is a logical inference that Gavin was also robbed, as the other’s present at the time of his attack have a track record of theft and burglary.
All we can ask is if you can send a little strength our way, as right now we feel as though Gavin has been killed for the second time "
If thats all the punishment people get its no wonder youths today dont take manslaughter or murder serious, its hardly a deterrent is it
Sarah
02-10-2008, 02:59 PM
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this country is fucked
he should of got life for the killing as that is what he took
eye for an eye an all that
the judge should be ashamed and i would deffo see if his sentance could be increased
im embarased to say im english
matt
he should of got life for the killing as that is what he took
eye for an eye an all that
the judge should be ashamed and i would deffo see if his sentance could be increased
im embarased to say im english
matt
02-10-2008, 02:59 PM
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my mate said the lad who died's sister ( her mate ) is absolutely devastated, she was expecting him to get a short sentence but nowhere near as short as that.
So realistically hes killed someone for no reason and will lose a year of his life, if that
Disgusting
So realistically hes killed someone for no reason and will lose a year of his life, if that
Disgusting
02-10-2008, 03:00 PM
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unbeliveable !!!
I know if that happened 2 me and that was my brother id be counting down the 18 months and would be waiting for him as soon as he steped out!!
Some things are worth going 2 jail for!
I know if that happened 2 me and that was my brother id be counting down the 18 months and would be waiting for him as soon as he steped out!!
Some things are worth going 2 jail for!
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02-10-2008, 03:03 PM
#9
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Fucking piss take. Makes me sick. No justice in this country at all I'm afraid. My dad's house was broken into a few years back on X Mas eve when we were at the pub. They found the neighbours fingerprints all over the house, his shoe prints in the flower bed from where he climbed over the back garden fence linking his garden to my dads, and the fact the fence was pushed half over with him crossing it and bundling things over. Police said there was lack of evidence. Dispite his next door neighbours having drugs and burglary offences against them.
02-10-2008, 03:04 PM
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Absolutely disgusting. He should of got 18 years. What is all this 'I wont be their for my kids'. How dare he say such a thing after killing someone.
I read this out to my mum, she was upset.
Benni.
I read this out to my mum, she was upset.
Benni.
02-10-2008, 03:09 PM
#14
my mates brother got shot in the head, point blank, the guy walked up to him in a bar and pulled the trigger
he said he didn't realise the gun was loaded at the time and sobbed about it being hard to live with killing his "mate"
even though he was packing because he was a dealer and some other dealers were after him (they got busted for waiting outside the bar tooled up when the police were called)
he got 3 years in an "open" prison despite a big campaign aginst it
the rules suck
sorry to hear about your mates mate sarah
he said he didn't realise the gun was loaded at the time and sobbed about it being hard to live with killing his "mate"
even though he was packing because he was a dealer and some other dealers were after him (they got busted for waiting outside the bar tooled up when the police were called)
he got 3 years in an "open" prison despite a big campaign aginst it
the rules suck
sorry to hear about your mates mate sarah
02-10-2008, 03:09 PM
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I hope they are going to appeal, although i imagine its the last thing on their mind going through it again
02-10-2008, 03:10 PM
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my mates brother got shot in the head, point blank, the guy walked up to him in a bar and pulled the trigger
he said he didn't realise the gun was loaded at the time and sobbed about it being hard to live with killing his "mate"
even though he was packing because he was a dealer and some other dealers were after him (they got busted for waiting outside the bar tooled up when the police were called)
he got 3 years in an "open" prison despite a big campaign aginst it
the rules suck
sorry to hear about your mates mate sarah
he said he didn't realise the gun was loaded at the time and sobbed about it being hard to live with killing his "mate"
even though he was packing because he was a dealer and some other dealers were after him (they got busted for waiting outside the bar tooled up when the police were called)
he got 3 years in an "open" prison despite a big campaign aginst it
the rules suck
sorry to hear about your mates mate sarah
I just cant get over the judge reading his letter out pleading about his kids yet not letting the victims family read out theirs
02-10-2008, 03:11 PM
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when looking on the CPS guidelines it says they recommend minimum sentence to start at 3yrs for manslaughter
WTF was the judge thinking
Sarah
WTF was the judge thinking
Sarah
02-10-2008, 03:16 PM
#20
strangely there is a lad at my work,that works for a civil contractor, has recently just got out of prison after serving 10 years for punching a bloke in a fight, the lad hit his head and died, strangely the lad is as quiet as a mouse and if you didn't know the history you wouldn't think he could harm a flea.
just a warning that you only have to hit someone once to change lives forever..
steve
just a warning that you only have to hit someone once to change lives forever..
steve
02-10-2008, 03:17 PM
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doesnt it make you wonder though, are they passing such lenient sentences because the prisons are overcrowded, or because they dont think manslaughter is serious
quite worrying to think the judges are this lenient and not keeping murderers off the streets
I didnt know the victim personally but how on earth his family will be getting over it i dont know
quite worrying to think the judges are this lenient and not keeping murderers off the streets
I didnt know the victim personally but how on earth his family will be getting over it i dont know
02-10-2008, 03:18 PM
#22
unfortunatly they will probably have charged him with manslaughter due to there being no premeditated actions leading up to the attack
and, the judge should have also been thinking about the victims family, it seems that "justice" is biased towards the defendant and their incarcerations affects on their families, rather than being fairly weighted towards the victims who's families and friends aren't considered in the sentancing
if his 2 kids didn't have a nasty cunt of a father, then they'd be able to spend more time with him, hardly their fault but it would probably have done them more favours him not being in their lives if this is what he is going to be bringing to their education
and, the judge should have also been thinking about the victims family, it seems that "justice" is biased towards the defendant and their incarcerations affects on their families, rather than being fairly weighted towards the victims who's families and friends aren't considered in the sentancing
if his 2 kids didn't have a nasty cunt of a father, then they'd be able to spend more time with him, hardly their fault but it would probably have done them more favours him not being in their lives if this is what he is going to be bringing to their education
02-10-2008, 03:21 PM
#24
doesnt it make you wonder though, are they passing such lenient sentences because the prisons are overcrowded, or because they dont think manslaughter is serious
quite worrying to think the judges are this lenient and not keeping murderers off the streets
I didnt know the victim personally but how on earth his family will be getting over it i dont know
quite worrying to think the judges are this lenient and not keeping murderers off the streets
I didnt know the victim personally but how on earth his family will be getting over it i dont know
rehabilitation, which seems to be everyones favorite word, should be for afterwards
and if you get handed 10 years, you should do 10 years, not 5
if you lock up all the scrotes, there will be less trouble if they are kept off teh streets in single cells for 10 years than being pampered and sent off on holidays for 5 weeks and then let back out again
02-10-2008, 03:57 PM
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A death is always an awful thing, and my full condolences to the victims family and friends.
However, anybody who has posted actually aware of the manslaughter law?
Or are you all just seeing somebody has died and ignoring all the facts?
The important thing here is the intent. There are two ways of killing somebody with one punch. Firstly the actualy punch can cause a hemmorage, death has occoured instantly. The second way is when the body hits the floor, which is this case.
If I WANTED to kill somebody I would not try and punch them. The intent here was clearly to cause bodily harm, not death. TBH the sentence is more than I expected to see (12 months).
Just because he was a chav going on what you have posted about his past does not give the court a right to whack his sentence up.
I'm just trying to make you understand how the sentence was reached. If he had gone not guilty then he could of seen 3 years.
If the sentence is unduely leanient then the CPS can appeal to the high court, though that would be a big surprise to me.
However, anybody who has posted actually aware of the manslaughter law?
Or are you all just seeing somebody has died and ignoring all the facts?
The important thing here is the intent. There are two ways of killing somebody with one punch. Firstly the actualy punch can cause a hemmorage, death has occoured instantly. The second way is when the body hits the floor, which is this case.
If I WANTED to kill somebody I would not try and punch them. The intent here was clearly to cause bodily harm, not death. TBH the sentence is more than I expected to see (12 months).
Just because he was a chav going on what you have posted about his past does not give the court a right to whack his sentence up.
I'm just trying to make you understand how the sentence was reached. If he had gone not guilty then he could of seen 3 years.
If the sentence is unduely leanient then the CPS can appeal to the high court, though that would be a big surprise to me.
02-10-2008, 04:01 PM
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what a wast of tax payers money.................gotta feel GUTTED for teh victims family even more of an insult after what they have gone through!
even more of an insult after what they have gone through!
02-10-2008, 04:05 PM
#29
The problem is too many people think that they can't change anything but if they all got off their backsides and pulled their fingers out and said no more the government and the judicial system would have to listen so if you feel there has been any injustice where you, someone else you know or whatever is concerned don't just sit there and say nothing speak up and get them to listen.
I believe that anyone can solve a problem if enough people speak up and help out so get a petition together and get as many people to sign it as possible and present it to the courts.
The country is screwed because nobody bothers to speak out about anything because they are scared of being labelled!
SPEAK UP AND STOP BEING COWARDS THATS WHAT I SAY!!!!!!!!!!
I believe that anyone can solve a problem if enough people speak up and help out so get a petition together and get as many people to sign it as possible and present it to the courts.
The country is screwed because nobody bothers to speak out about anything because they are scared of being labelled!
SPEAK UP AND STOP BEING COWARDS THATS WHAT I SAY!!!!!!!!!!
02-10-2008, 04:13 PM
#30
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I don't see what is wrong?
If I punched somebody and killed them I would be miffed if I got life as I didn't mean to do it. I would accept a proportional custodial sentence in leau of the bad fortune it had ended in a fatality.
There is plenty of case law on the matter, this is nothing out of the ordinary.
If I punched somebody and killed them I would be miffed if I got life as I didn't mean to do it. I would accept a proportional custodial sentence in leau of the bad fortune it had ended in a fatality.
There is plenty of case law on the matter, this is nothing out of the ordinary.
02-10-2008, 04:24 PM
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I don't see what is wrong?
If I punched somebody and killed them I would be miffed if I got life as I didn't mean to do it. I would accept a proportional custodial sentence in leau of the bad fortune it had ended in a fatality.
There is plenty of case law on the matter, this is nothing out of the ordinary.
If I punched somebody and killed them I would be miffed if I got life as I didn't mean to do it. I would accept a proportional custodial sentence in leau of the bad fortune it had ended in a fatality.
There is plenty of case law on the matter, this is nothing out of the ordinary.
However, you've done something wrong, which has resulted in a life being taken.
18 months is a bit low.
Does deserve a few years.
Maybe not 20 years+ as per pre-meditated set out to kill someone, but a few years nevertheless.
This is why I'm wary of ever hitting anyone, wrong punch and they're dead, just not worth the chance.
Sad reading indeed.
02-10-2008, 04:48 PM
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One punch killings happen more often than you realise.
I can see why there is public outcry here, but people need to calm down and think rationally. Imagine it was you doing the punch, never done anything wrong before, 10 or 20 years in the slammer would be bum deal meal.
I can see why there is public outcry here, but people need to calm down and think rationally. Imagine it was you doing the punch, never done anything wrong before, 10 or 20 years in the slammer would be bum deal meal.
02-10-2008, 04:49 PM
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Remember with his 18 months he will of been given full credit for his guilty plea, which I imagine will of been at the earliest oppertunity. Not guilty would of been 3 years (ish), which IMO is a fair starting point for sentencing.
02-10-2008, 04:51 PM
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Indeed, but 18 months (out in a year?) is an insult to life don't you think?
Got to be 5 years I'd have thought.
Imagine if it was 10 years+, may cut down on assaults.
Soft sentences are to blame for the lawless society we find ourselves in now.
Punch someone because you feel like it, kill them, get a year in the nick.
Not too much worth worrying about a year is it?
Got to be 5 years I'd have thought.
Imagine if it was 10 years+, may cut down on assaults.
Soft sentences are to blame for the lawless society we find ourselves in now.
Punch someone because you feel like it, kill them, get a year in the nick.
Not too much worth worrying about a year is it?
02-10-2008, 04:56 PM
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Yes and no. Stiff sentences for guns (5 years for possestion) doesn't seen to deter those who want to do it.
End of the day, you can glam this up how you like, it was a freak accident. I have seen people not even go to prison for killing somebody when driving, as until recently there was either death by dangerous (for bad driving), or the next step down was driving without due care and attention, which you cannot have a custodial sentence for.
Now that WAS an injustice. Now it has changed though
End of the day, you can glam this up how you like, it was a freak accident. I have seen people not even go to prison for killing somebody when driving, as until recently there was either death by dangerous (for bad driving), or the next step down was driving without due care and attention, which you cannot have a custodial sentence for.
Now that WAS an injustice. Now it has changed though
02-10-2008, 05:02 PM
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02-10-2008, 05:12 PM
#39
words fail me! - RIP
its a sorry state; but because it was manslaughter the intent to kill wasnt there; his intent could have been to give him a black eye - hence the pathetic sentance
no wonder some many English people are leaving this country, its always the innocent folk that suffer in this country
Matt
its a sorry state; but because it was manslaughter the intent to kill wasnt there; his intent could have been to give him a black eye - hence the pathetic sentance
no wonder some many English people are leaving this country, its always the innocent folk that suffer in this country
Matt
