View Poll Results: T4 or Gt30
T4
53
36.30%
GT30
93
63.70%
Voters: 146. You may not vote on this poll
t4 or Gt30 for 500bhp
09-09-2008, 03:47 PM
#121
.As far as I am aware, all the roller-bearing converted T4s use a standard T4 shaft, machined to accept the roller-bearing core developed for this conversion.
With regard to the comments about comparing a standard T4 - why would you? The modified one is £1400, which compares more than favorably with a GT30 at £850, when you add even the cheapest items to go with it to make it fit (which in reality ends up closer to £2k unless you can do the work yourself, as everyone seems to forget the fabrication work with either a screamer pipe or getting it back into the exhaust, along with the extra heat management required). When you add a decent wastegate (a £400 Tial one, it is even closer to the £2k mark), then I personally, can see no reason for chosing to go this way (other than for bling
) at the 500bhp level.As soon as you go above a certain power level though, then you have no choice, but at 500bhp, I would chose the T4 every time. But like Doug says about my haircut - I'm stuck in the past
.
09-09-2008, 03:55 PM
#122
DANISH cosworth abuser
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Holbæk, denmark
Posts: 1,467
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
With regard to the comments about comparing a standard T4 - why would you? The modified one is £1400, which compares more than favorably with a GT30 at £850, when you add even the cheapest items to go with it to make it fit (which in reality ends up closer to £2k unless you can do the work yourself, as everyone seems to forget the fabrication work with either a screamer pipe or getting it back into the exhaust, along with the extra heat management required). When you add a decent wastegate (a £400 Tial one, it is even closer to the £2k mark), then I personally, can see no reason for chosing to go this way (other than for bling ) at the 500bhp level.
) at the 500bhp level.
I thought my 500£ of work was expensive LOL
09-09-2008, 03:59 PM
#123
Happily retired
ok ignore the modded T4 for a minute (and mike, just for the modded bit mike!), basically we all know a T4 will work for 500 and so will the GT30, so at the end of the day it comes down to whoever and however the person chooses to build the engine and how well it is speced and put together. old technology or new they both work for the the big 500 
choosing either way they will have a quck car if done right!
choosing either way they will have a quck car if done right!
09-09-2008, 04:04 PM
#126
The point martin was making is that unless you happen to start with a very expensive T4 with a maram shaft, by the time you machine your T4 strong shaft down, you have now got a spinldly little GT shaft anyway basically.
09-09-2008, 04:06 PM
#127
PassionFord Post Troll
Mike, you have some valid points about cost.
I think if you bought the extra gear and a bit of fab for an external gate the price of a GT would come out at £1550 ish so only £150 more than your T4.
Me being different i'd do the fab my self (so free) and buy a cheap tial copy wastegate off ebay. I'd then fitt a hobbs switch that could cut the power to the coil at a preset boost level incase the cheap wastegate failed.
Total cost £950 max.
Ps i was only pulling your leg about the hair. I'm sure the youngsters will take the mickey out of my dated hair when i'm 53 too.
I think if you bought the extra gear and a bit of fab for an external gate the price of a GT would come out at £1550 ish so only £150 more than your T4.
Me being different i'd do the fab my self (so free) and buy a cheap tial copy wastegate off ebay. I'd then fitt a hobbs switch that could cut the power to the coil at a preset boost level incase the cheap wastegate failed.
Total cost £950 max.
Ps i was only pulling your leg about the hair. I'm sure the youngsters will take the mickey out of my dated hair when i'm 53 too.
09-09-2008, 04:07 PM
#128
£850 turbo
£200 wastegate (wouldn't put one of these on my lawn-mower
)£50 for a screamer pipe (MUCH more if you have it fed back into the exhaust).
£120 for a boost controller
£100 for Nimbus heat shield
Even doing it yourself comes to £1320 with a cheap wastegate, that jumps up to £1520 with a decent one, plus if you add any labour costs to that, it soon gets near £2k
.
09-09-2008, 04:09 PM
#129
PassionFord Post Troll
The shaft may be thinner but that doesn't mean it is weaker.
I bet garret have have a fair bit of FEA data on both and you would be supprised how much stronger you can mack stuff by simply changing a small radius here and there or a slight change in the alloy used.
I bet garret have have a fair bit of FEA data on both and you would be supprised how much stronger you can mack stuff by simply changing a small radius here and there or a slight change in the alloy used.
Last edited by Garage19; 09-09-2008 at 04:10 PM.
09-09-2008, 04:11 PM
#130
Not really mate a GT30 Turbo is far superior to a T4 so why would you even consider one. Ive had just about every Turbo going & believe me the latest GT series are on a completely different planet. 500bhp Peak Power is easy but go out in a proper Specced one on a GT30 & the T4 will seem like a slug on Diazapan.
Doug,
CUNT - I'm only 52
.
09-09-2008, 04:13 PM
#132
Mike, the cheap wastegate you wouldnt put on your lawnmower for 200 quid, what make is that?
As the last ones I bought were 150 quid for a genuine Tial 38mm and 225 quid for a genuine Tial 44mm one
I actually view Tial as a pretty good make, are you of the opinion they are shit then? If so why?
As the last ones I bought were 150 quid for a genuine Tial 38mm and 225 quid for a genuine Tial 44mm one
I actually view Tial as a pretty good make, are you of the opinion they are shit then? If so why?
09-09-2008, 04:19 PM
#135
£850 turbo
£200 wastegate (wouldn't put one of these on my lawn-mower)
£50 for a screamer pipe (MUCH more if you have it fed back into the exhaust).
£120 for a boost controller
£100 for Nimbus heat shield
Even doing it yourself comes to £1320 with a cheap wastegate, that jumps up to £1520 with a decent one, plus if you add any labour costs to that, it soon gets near £2k.
£200 wastegate (wouldn't put one of these on my lawn-mower
)£50 for a screamer pipe (MUCH more if you have it fed back into the exhaust).
£120 for a boost controller
£100 for Nimbus heat shield
Even doing it yourself comes to £1320 with a cheap wastegate, that jumps up to £1520 with a decent one, plus if you add any labour costs to that, it soon gets near £2k
.
09-09-2008, 04:19 PM
#136
Mike, the cheap wastegate you wouldnt put on your lawnmower for 200 quid, what make is that?
As the last ones I bought were 150 quid for a genuine Tial 38mm and 225 quid for a genuine Tial 44mm one
I actually view Tial as a pretty good make, are you of the opinion they are shit then? If so why?
As the last ones I bought were 150 quid for a genuine Tial 38mm and 225 quid for a genuine Tial 44mm one
I actually view Tial as a pretty good make, are you of the opinion they are shit then? If so why?
, I thought the £200 was for the cheap Chinese copies that fall apart when you start using them.... 
. I would PERSONALLY use the 44mm Tial at 500bhp, and the 46mm one above 550bhp (just to allow a greater range of boost control).
09-09-2008, 04:22 PM
#140
I wasn't aware you could get the Tial ones so cheeply now , I thought the £200 was for the cheap Chinese copies that fall apart when you start using them.... . I would PERSONALLY use the 44mm Tial at 500bhp, and the 46mm one above 550bhp (just to allow a greater range of boost control).
, I thought the £200 was for the cheap Chinese copies that fall apart when you start using them.... . I would PERSONALLY use the 44mm Tial at 500bhp, and the 46mm one above 550bhp (just to allow a greater range of boost control).
09-09-2008, 04:22 PM
#141
I'm Finding My Feet Here Now
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Kent
Posts: 139
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
now it would be nice to compare this, anybody got any performance figures ie 0-60,0-100 etc to prove the slug v's modern gt jet fighter? i bet the difference is hardly noticable.
09-09-2008, 04:24 PM
#142
I wasn't aware you could get the Tial ones so cheeply now , I thought the £200 was for the cheap Chinese copies that fall apart when you start using them.... . I would PERSONALLY use the 44mm Tial at 500bhp, and the 46mm one above 550bhp (just to allow a greater range of boost control).
, I thought the £200 was for the cheap Chinese copies that fall apart when you start using them.... . I would PERSONALLY use the 44mm Tial at 500bhp, and the 46mm one above 550bhp (just to allow a greater range of boost control).Personally im intending to go for 2 * 38mm ones for mine, even that is only 300 quid (i just need to get garage 19 to make the pipework up for me, lol)
09-09-2008, 04:27 PM
#146
PassionFord Post Troll
Thats what a total peasant like me can get them for Mike, im sure a superstar like you with a website with prices and everything can get a far better deal as you would be buying more of them than the group buy of half a dozen I did to get those prices
Personally im intending to go for 2 * 38mm ones for mine, even that is only 300 quid (i just need to get garage 19 to make the pipework up for me, lol)
Personally im intending to go for 2 * 38mm ones for mine, even that is only 300 quid (i just need to get garage 19 to make the pipework up for me, lol)
09-09-2008, 04:33 PM
#152
I'm Finding My Feet Here Now
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Kent
Posts: 139
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
09-09-2008, 04:33 PM
#154
DANISH cosworth abuser
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Holbæk, denmark
Posts: 1,467
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have actually tried to go 0,8bar on my gt35 1.06 with a turbosmart 38mm ultragate, and NO problems what so ever controling the boost, not even @ 2,1bar, so no need for those big wg really.
TIAL are great, but really, no need to buy the most expemsive ones.
Tial hks turbosmart, buy brands, NOT kopi ones, then your fine
TIAL are great, but really, no need to buy the most expemsive ones.
Tial hks turbosmart, buy brands, NOT kopi ones, then your fine
09-09-2008, 04:37 PM
#159
DANISH cosworth abuser
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Holbæk, denmark
Posts: 1,467
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts