Staffi

iTrader: (1)

Was just wondering, what kind of boost are these cars running and if no restriction would they be like the old GRP B cars pushing 500 bhp

Also, what kind of torque are they producing??

bbspolo

34mill restrictor about 350bhp i think!

rapidcossie

sure they run 40 odd psi?

They probably wouldnt have 500 bhp just by removing restrictor but would require a whole engine shake up to achive the higher power.

pa_sjo

300bhp, or thereabouts.. Run around 2.5 bar at low rpm and drop to about half a bar by the rev limiter.. over 400 lb-ft of torque at like 2500rpm!

Staffi

iTrader: (1)

40 psi, is that near on 3 bar then??

J1mbo

iTrader: (1)

they have 34mm restrictors so max hp is about 310ish

they can run up to 45psi down low and produce around 500lbft torque

obviously due to the restrictor they back the boost pressue to about 9psi up the top

saying that the subaru world engine has a fairly low and flat torque curve !!

bbspolo

well i was half right! lol

markk

iTrader: (2)

the myth of single figures at the top is just not all true

big_wig_074

isnt it 500NM?which is NOT 500lb/ft!

J1mbo

iTrader: (1)

nope some make like 490/500 lb/ft

J1mbo

iTrader: (1)

elaborate

big_wig_074

sorry,official figures given out are in NM and are 500 in the rally guides

pee vee

thought they had to be 300 bhp max.


I'd like to know a bit more about the other rules.. obviously the homologation thing
has been scrapped now, as there has never been and never will be a 4x4 2ltr turbo focus/ xsara/ 307

so what are the rules about that?


sorry to take this off topic lol

J1mbo

iTrader: (1)

your prob correct but some wrc engines can make up to 500lb/ft and 315 bhp
this is on a very good wrc engine the cossie wrc engines made theses sort
of figures

this was a round about figure

i no the very late wrc cars only make 500 nm tho

markk

iTrader: (2)

some of the current crop are making nye on 340hp still with the 34mm in,

Stavros

top grpB cars were more like 650.

and no, WRC engines are built as a package, like all good engines should be, so even without the restrictor theyd not be tons more.

id put money none of em could hit 500bhp unrestricted on the turbos they run.

ESCYSCOTT

iTrader: (1)

when we went for our visit to M-sport, the guy was banging on about restrictors and engine power etc. He was mentioning about the privateers and the irish cars etc and iirc he was saying some of the latest engines are running close to 500bhp!!!

Direct from the horses mouth !

Rob84

I know that the old Accent WRC's ran about 3 bar of boost on idle/low down with the anti lag and ones that went off to do a bit of Ice Racing, after the WRC team folded, were running 600bhp+ without the restrictor. I was told this by the head mechanic of the old accent wrc team who now does all the work on my car

bbspolo

sorry but i cant see it??
why would they use a turbo and compression ratio that can handle 600 hp when they cant run that sort of power with the restrictor in place?????

now if some1 said with changing the turbo,map and compression ratio they can run 500-600hp i would belive it?

not that i know much about it and im sure some1 will set me strait! lol

markk

iTrader: (2)

on one of my engine which was an old group a type of spec, when we removed the restrictor and re-mapped the car we gained approx 100hp only.
I would not be surprised in a WRC motor with the pukka IHI un restricted would make 500hp after a remap, though i would not like to see that figure on a regular basis knowing the spec of the WRC motor, but it is possible.(for a while)

buzznwood

The wrc compressors are made to work with the restrictor, well the garrett ones are so they don't flow much (no point in having a compressor that can flow more air than you are going to be able to use) but they are designed to run at very high pressure ratio, they can sit at two bar all day long.

The BCCW5 compressor is what they use in the TR30R for the rally cars it comes in a couple of sizes 69mm and 78mm and from what I can remember from the compressor maps the 69mm flows around 30lbs and the 78mm around 40lbs, with the pressure ratio of the 78mm going over 5 at around 30lbs, if I've remembered correctly. I do remember that from around 30lbs to 40lbs it was over 4, but I would imagine that the rally cars use the 69mm compressor so without the restrictor you only looking at around 300+bhp.

There do however do a couple of BCCW28 compressors for the TR30R that flow around 45lb and 55lbs at normal pressure ratios. Shame the TR30R costs so much as it really is turbo porn with its GT30 sized NS111 turbine, with a BCCW28 compressor it would be great for a 400-500 bhp road / track car.

Lo@der

iTrader: (8)

Why does nobody run this kind of setup for fast road/track use, mega responsive?
Is this with the use of harsh ALS?

Aaroncast

Borrow/beg/ Steal>>>>>>>>>> The-m.s.a Blue Book---------everything You Need To Know.

pa_sjo

The entire package is designed to make 300bhp, or thereabouts, as efficiently and as responsively as possible. Talk about replacing one thing with another (eg, remove restrictor) and gaining loads of power is just bollocks.

Stavros

GrpA engines generally would gain more than WRC ones, as they, on the whole, ran much bigger turbos, gaining 100bhp non restricted on them isnt remotely unrealistic.

People suddently thinking a WRC lump would gain 200bhp+ without a restrictor though, are fucking retards IMO, even if they were "told" by someone.
Dont you think they meant "with a few changes"? Ie a different fucking turbo that could do that sort of power for a start.
A WRC engine builder would have to be quite a spaz to spec an engine for 500-600bhp then fit a restrictor to knock it down to 300.
Turbo/head/cam specs would be miles out from what it could be.

Because the powerband isnt very big (WRC cars arnt exactly revvy!), and it would be THE most expensive way of getting 300bhp ever.

Nothing in the MSA blue book would help you with the questions on this thread, or some of the retarded replys.

Stavros

GrpA engines would gain more than WRC ones are they, on the whole, ran much bigger turbos, gaining 100bhp non restricted on them isnt remotely unrealistic.

People suddently thinking a WRC lump would gain 200bhp+ without a restrictor though, are dreaming IMO, even if they were "told" by someone.
Dont you think they meant "with a few changes"? Ie a different fucking turbo that could do that sort of power for a start.
A WRC engine builder would have to be quite a spaz to spec an engine for 500-600bhp then fit a restrictor to knock it down to 300.
Turbo/head/cam specs would be miles out from what it could be.

Because the powerband isnt very big (WRC cars arnt exactly revvy!), and it would be THE most expensive way of getting 300bhp ever.

Nothing in the MSA blue book would help you with the questions on this thread, or some of the retarded replys.

Gary F

iTrader: (1)

Stav I love the way you answer questions

markk

iTrader: (2)

i do hope you are not including me in the above quote ?

and the group a car ran a smaller turbo than the WRC cars in regards to compressor size.

volcomstone411

i dont think rally engines last very long do they?

volcomstone411

[quote=Stavros;3541163]
Because the powerband isnt very big (WRC cars arnt exactly revvy!), and it would be THE most expensive way of getting 300bhp ever.

and you would just constantly be changing gear. A trip to the shops 200m down the road (Walking is for the poor), would be 50 odd gear changes lol.

And i expect the kind of gear setup needed would cost lots. And also dont rally cars top out at 80mph, roughly?

imagine that, being annihilated by a ka lol

Robski

Yep i think Stav is spot on again!,no way taking a restrictor out would suddenly give you a whopping 200 extra BHP...as said before that engine was built to maximise on its boundary's...its not some detuned 550BHP monster of an engine