3dr Straight line stability............update H13 ARB
10-07-2008, 02:17 PM
#126
You also need to be aware that due to the struts being pushed forward with the increased caster that the H14 ARB gives, that this also causes an increase in bump steer, which requires some increased toe-in to compensate (aim for 2-3mm overall).
Again, all thanks to Ahmed for passing this information on to me
. He also recounted a funny story where they had an RS500 in, where the front ARB was changed to allow the front edge of the tyres to clear the splitter, then the same person a few weeks later came in asking them to fix the ensuing high speed instability on the same car 
. Can you guess what they did? 
Also just because the RS500's were all built with this ARB, it doesn't mean it didn't get changed for the wrong one by some body shop person during the course of a front end repair .
Again, all thanks to Ahmed for passing this information on to me
. He also recounted a funny story where they had an RS500 in, where the front ARB was changed to allow the front edge of the tyres to clear the splitter, then the same person a few weeks later came in asking them to fix the ensuing high speed instability on the same car . Can you guess what they did? Also just because the RS500's were all built with this ARB, it doesn't mean it didn't get changed for the wrong one by some body shop person during the course of a front end repair
.
10-07-2008, 02:21 PM
#128
You also need to be aware that due to the struts being pushed forward with the increased caster that the H14 ARB gives, that this also causes an increase in bump steer, which requires some increased toe-in to compensate (aim for 2-3mm overall).
Again, all thanks to Ahmed for passing this information on to me. He also recounted a funny story where they had an RS500 in, where the front ARB was changed to allow the front edge of the tyres to clear the splitter, then the same person a few weeks later came in asking them to fix the ensuing high speed instability on the same car . Can you guess what they did?
Also just because the RS500's were all built with this ARB, it doesn't mean it didn't get changed for the wrong one by some body shop person during the course of a front end repair .
Again, all thanks to Ahmed for passing this information on to me
. He also recounted a funny story where they had an RS500 in, where the front ARB was changed to allow the front edge of the tyres to clear the splitter, then the same person a few weeks later came in asking them to fix the ensuing high speed instability on the same car . Can you guess what they did? Also just because the RS500's were all built with this ARB, it doesn't mean it didn't get changed for the wrong one by some body shop person during the course of a front end repair
.Last edited by Turbosystems; 10-07-2008 at 02:22 PM.
10-07-2008, 02:23 PM
#129
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should have asked Ahmad thinking about it..............he only drove the car about a month ago!
Mike is it just the toe i need to worry about after or anything else? i'll check the roll bar (change if necessary) and then set the shocks to hard at the back and half a turn off full at the front then take the car to get set up somewhere so a comprehensive list of settings would be good
Mike is it just the toe i need to worry about after or anything else? i'll check the roll bar (change if necessary) and then set the shocks to hard at the back and half a turn off full at the front then take the car to get set up somewhere so a comprehensive list of settings would be good
10-07-2008, 02:33 PM
#131
. I personally think I have learned a huge amount over the 14 years of being around these people. I only wish I could spent some more time picking Chris Wood's brains - gone but not forgotten 
.Obviously, I don't mind experimenting either hence I absorb the information, apply it to my own car (in various forms) and tweek it as necessary to achieve the results I want
.I do know my limitations though, and without wanting to sound like a complete bum-lick
, I envy your own knowledge and experience and continue to strive to learn as much as I can. Almost 80% of my own knowledge is theory and 20% applied, where-as I know this is vice-versa for you 
.
10-07-2008, 02:37 PM
#133
should have asked Ahmad thinking about it..............he only drove the car about a month ago!
Mike is it just the toe i need to worry about after or anything else? i'll check the roll bar (change if necessary) and then set the shocks to hard at the back and half a turn off full at the front then take the car to get set up somewhere so a comprehensive list of settings would be good
Mike is it just the toe i need to worry about after or anything else? i'll check the roll bar (change if necessary) and then set the shocks to hard at the back and half a turn off full at the front then take the car to get set up somewhere so a comprehensive list of settings would be good
10-07-2008, 02:47 PM
#139
Mike if you want to learn, why the fuck dont you just buy some cheap shitter, strip it down, rebuild it, bolt a turbo onto it, whack some management on it, map it and learn as you go?
With the people you have access to for asking for info, should be easy for you to do so! Not to mention you have far more funds for tools and parts than I have im sure!
You wont evaporate if you touch oil or anything, I promise
Get a clio trackday car like you were talking about ages ago, but dont let anyone touch it with a spanner but yourself, and go from there
With the people you have access to for asking for info, should be easy for you to do so! Not to mention you have far more funds for tools and parts than I have im sure!
You wont evaporate if you touch oil or anything, I promise
Get a clio trackday car like you were talking about ages ago, but dont let anyone touch it with a spanner but yourself, and go from there
10-07-2008, 03:57 PM
#141
10K+ Poster!!
It mounts onto the top of the turret but the section that bolts to the side of the turret (lower) is about an inch away iirc
I always imagined its the brace but if its not then what do you advise to sort it ?
10-07-2008, 06:09 PM
#142
the problem with setting up suspension is that far too many people 'think' they know what they are doing, and not enough of them 'actually' do.
there are many mnay wheel alignment systems on the market from Ł100 to Ł30,00 and some are great, others are not, but out of all the testing i have done with a well known compny who specialises in this area of four/six/eight wheel alignment its shocking how many cars are mis-aligned after a full alignment check.
We demo'd a very expensive system ( wont mention names) fully computerised, looks the bollox, nice screen, loads of red for if its wrong, green for if its good etc and you set the car up by jacking the car off th efloor with the equipment on it, lower it down on to the turn plates, fulllock one way then the other, it tells you what to adjust, then all sorted - a shit load of greens, even your mum could set it up.
I was very sceptical (was a 20k kit this) so i took the car out of the workshop, took the car up the road, then brought it back in, reset the gear back on, and then we had a load of red lights on the screen WTF is that all about ?
the moral of the story here is, if you need a computer to tell you whats right and wrong when your carrying out wheel alignment, leave it alone, you do not know what you are doing.
what if the computer is out of date ? manufacturers change alignment data monthly sometimes, what if the guy whos operating the computer, just misses your model by a chassis change ? far too many variables with computer based alignment.
all you need a a set of scales and two calibrated lasers (plus the std turnplates etc)
there are many mnay wheel alignment systems on the market from Ł100 to Ł30,00 and some are great, others are not, but out of all the testing i have done with a well known compny who specialises in this area of four/six/eight wheel alignment its shocking how many cars are mis-aligned after a full alignment check.
We demo'd a very expensive system ( wont mention names) fully computerised, looks the bollox, nice screen, loads of red for if its wrong, green for if its good etc and you set the car up by jacking the car off th efloor with the equipment on it, lower it down on to the turn plates, fulllock one way then the other, it tells you what to adjust, then all sorted - a shit load of greens, even your mum could set it up.
I was very sceptical (was a 20k kit this) so i took the car out of the workshop, took the car up the road, then brought it back in, reset the gear back on, and then we had a load of red lights on the screen WTF is that all about ?
the moral of the story here is, if you need a computer to tell you whats right and wrong when your carrying out wheel alignment, leave it alone, you do not know what you are doing.
what if the computer is out of date ? manufacturers change alignment data monthly sometimes, what if the guy whos operating the computer, just misses your model by a chassis change ? far too many variables with computer based alignment.
all you need a a set of scales and two calibrated lasers (plus the std turnplates etc)
10-07-2008, 06:51 PM
#143
the problem with setting up suspension is that far too many people 'think' they know what they are doing, and not enough of them 'actually' do.
there are many mnay wheel alignment systems on the market from Ł100 to Ł30,00 and some are great, others are not, but out of all the testing i have done with a well known compny who specialises in this area of four/six/eight wheel alignment its shocking how many cars are mis-aligned after a full alignment check.
We demo'd a very expensive system ( wont mention names) fully computerised, looks the bollox, nice screen, loads of red for if its wrong, green for if its good etc and you set the car up by jacking the car off th efloor with the equipment on it, lower it down on to the turn plates, fulllock one way then the other, it tells you what to adjust, then all sorted - a shit load of greens, even your mum could set it up.
I was very sceptical (was a 20k kit this) so i took the car out of the workshop, took the car up the road, then brought it back in, reset the gear back on, and then we had a load of red lights on the screen WTF is that all about ?
the moral of the story here is, if you need a computer to tell you whats right and wrong when your carrying out wheel alignment, leave it alone, you do not know what you are doing.
what if the computer is out of date ? manufacturers change alignment data monthly sometimes, what if the guy whos operating the computer, just misses your model by a chassis change ? far too many variables with computer based alignment.
all you need a a set of scales and two calibrated lasers (plus the std turnplates etc)
there are many mnay wheel alignment systems on the market from Ł100 to Ł30,00 and some are great, others are not, but out of all the testing i have done with a well known compny who specialises in this area of four/six/eight wheel alignment its shocking how many cars are mis-aligned after a full alignment check.
We demo'd a very expensive system ( wont mention names) fully computerised, looks the bollox, nice screen, loads of red for if its wrong, green for if its good etc and you set the car up by jacking the car off th efloor with the equipment on it, lower it down on to the turn plates, fulllock one way then the other, it tells you what to adjust, then all sorted - a shit load of greens, even your mum could set it up.
I was very sceptical (was a 20k kit this) so i took the car out of the workshop, took the car up the road, then brought it back in, reset the gear back on, and then we had a load of red lights on the screen WTF is that all about ?
the moral of the story here is, if you need a computer to tell you whats right and wrong when your carrying out wheel alignment, leave it alone, you do not know what you are doing.
what if the computer is out of date ? manufacturers change alignment data monthly sometimes, what if the guy whos operating the computer, just misses your model by a chassis change ? far too many variables with computer based alignment.
all you need a a set of scales and two calibrated lasers (plus the std turnplates etc)
I am familiar with the equipment you are talking about. Could you detail the exact process you used in adjusting the geometry on the car (I'm assuming it was a Cossie)?
Regarding the list of data stored on the computer for different manufacturers, this is irrelevant, as long as you know your target settings you want to achieve, as you can program these into the computer, and it will use your manually chosen settings as the targets, instead of the stored settings. This is especially pertinent for Cossies, as the OE settings are rubbish (Ford recommends parrallel) and these settings make the car wander all over the place due to bush deflection.
10-07-2008, 07:05 PM
#144
the problem with setting up suspension is that far too many people 'think' they know what they are doing, and not enough of them 'actually' do.
there are many mnay wheel alignment systems on the market from Ł100 to Ł30,00 and some are great, others are not, but out of all the testing i have done with a well known compny who specialises in this area of four/six/eight wheel alignment its shocking how many cars are mis-aligned after a full alignment check.
We demo'd a very expensive system ( wont mention names) fully computerised, looks the bollox, nice screen, loads of red for if its wrong, green for if its good etc and you set the car up by jacking the car off th efloor with the equipment on it, lower it down on to the turn plates, fulllock one way then the other, it tells you what to adjust, then all sorted - a shit load of greens, even your mum could set it up.
I was very sceptical (was a 20k kit this) so i took the car out of the workshop, took the car up the road, then brought it back in, reset the gear back on, and then we had a load of red lights on the screen WTF is that all about ?
the moral of the story here is, if you need a computer to tell you whats right and wrong when your carrying out wheel alignment, leave it alone, you do not know what you are doing.
what if the computer is out of date ? manufacturers change alignment data monthly sometimes, what if the guy whos operating the computer, just misses your model by a chassis change ? far too many variables with computer based alignment.
all you need a a set of scales and two calibrated lasers (plus the std turnplates etc)
there are many mnay wheel alignment systems on the market from Ł100 to Ł30,00 and some are great, others are not, but out of all the testing i have done with a well known compny who specialises in this area of four/six/eight wheel alignment its shocking how many cars are mis-aligned after a full alignment check.
We demo'd a very expensive system ( wont mention names) fully computerised, looks the bollox, nice screen, loads of red for if its wrong, green for if its good etc and you set the car up by jacking the car off th efloor with the equipment on it, lower it down on to the turn plates, fulllock one way then the other, it tells you what to adjust, then all sorted - a shit load of greens, even your mum could set it up.
I was very sceptical (was a 20k kit this) so i took the car out of the workshop, took the car up the road, then brought it back in, reset the gear back on, and then we had a load of red lights on the screen WTF is that all about ?
the moral of the story here is, if you need a computer to tell you whats right and wrong when your carrying out wheel alignment, leave it alone, you do not know what you are doing.
what if the computer is out of date ? manufacturers change alignment data monthly sometimes, what if the guy whos operating the computer, just misses your model by a chassis change ? far too many variables with computer based alignment.
all you need a a set of scales and two calibrated lasers (plus the std turnplates etc)
Last edited by cossie604; 10-07-2008 at 07:07 PM.
10-07-2008, 08:29 PM
#145
Mark,
I am familiar with the equipment you are talking about. Could you detail the exact process you used in adjusting the geometry on the car (I'm assuming it was a Cossie)?
Regarding the list of data stored on the computer for different manufacturers, this is irrelevant, as long as you know your target settings you want to achieve, as you can program these into the computer, and it will use your manually chosen settings as the targets, instead of the stored settings. This is especially pertinent for Cossies, as the OE settings are rubbish (Ford recommends parrallel) and these settings make the car wander all over the place due to bush deflection.
I am familiar with the equipment you are talking about. Could you detail the exact process you used in adjusting the geometry on the car (I'm assuming it was a Cossie)?
Regarding the list of data stored on the computer for different manufacturers, this is irrelevant, as long as you know your target settings you want to achieve, as you can program these into the computer, and it will use your manually chosen settings as the targets, instead of the stored settings. This is especially pertinent for Cossies, as the OE settings are rubbish (Ford recommends parrallel) and these settings make the car wander all over the place due to bush deflection.
you didnt even need to carry out any adjustments and the geometry readings where differant every time you rechecked them.
That sounds more of a case of the operator of the equipment doesnt know what he's doing to me ie they didnt try to settle the steering/suspension after each adjustment was made before locking it all off...even after locking off it should be resettled and then readings checked prior to taking all gauges off.
10-07-2008, 08:36 PM
#146
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mike, no it was just a brand new factory car for comparison tests to prove a manufacturer of their own alignment equipment that it had flaws in its designs.
you didnt even need to carry out any adjustments and the geometry readings where differant every time you rechecked them.
it was me doing working the equipment with the manufacturer of the equipments representative. I would like to think i have a 'bit' of experiance in four wheel alignment
you didnt even need to carry out any adjustments and the geometry readings where differant every time you rechecked them.
it was me doing working the equipment with the manufacturer of the equipments representative. I would like to think i have a 'bit' of experiance in four wheel alignment
10-07-2008, 10:18 PM
#148
ramp was true across all axis mike, dont worry, the test proved that not all top money gives results.
the equipment i use now cost Ł2.5k and NEVER fails, has contsant results every time and has no computer to tell you anything, does have a couple of bright fricken lazers though
chip