Removing door innards and wheel well- lose any real chassis strength?
18-06-2008, 10:56 PM
#1
DEYTUKURJERBS
Thread Starter
Removing door innards and wheel well- lose any real chassis strength?
As title really.
If you remove the doors innards, so its just the basic outer shell, and say if you cut out a cars wheel well and replaced it with a sheet or carbon or ally, would it remove a big amount of chassis strength?
I mean, of course it would to some extent like removing anything, but I mean a real amount, a noticable amount, ie the car turning into a load of twisty jelly.
Im guessing no, considering people seem to be replacing their fookin roofs with carbon when they just got a basic cage or nowt at all, but thought I best ask.
Obv if you have a proper cage it wont matter, but I mean without one.
If you remove the doors innards, so its just the basic outer shell, and say if you cut out a cars wheel well and replaced it with a sheet or carbon or ally, would it remove a big amount of chassis strength?
I mean, of course it would to some extent like removing anything, but I mean a real amount, a noticable amount, ie the car turning into a load of twisty jelly.
Im guessing no, considering people seem to be replacing their fookin roofs with carbon when they just got a basic cage or nowt at all, but thought I best ask.
Obv if you have a proper cage it wont matter, but I mean without one.
18-06-2008, 11:03 PM
#2
PassionFord Post Whore!!
there are a load of old fords driving round with far less metal removed from years of road salt in far more vital areas so i wouldnt worry to much lol
19-06-2008, 12:16 AM
#3
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Id seek professional opinion personally before you start cutting
19-06-2008, 12:18 AM
#4
Depends on the car, but generally YES doors do have a fairly important role to play in rigidity, jack a car up with the door open and then try shutting the door and you'll see what i mean.
Counter intuitive given that they are only bolted on a couple of hinges one end a small catch the other, but it really does seem to make a difference!
wheel well doesnt do anything important structurally generally
Counter intuitive given that they are only bolted on a couple of hinges one end a small catch the other, but it really does seem to make a difference!
wheel well doesnt do anything important structurally generally
Last edited by Chip; 19-06-2008 at 12:19 AM.
19-06-2008, 09:03 AM
#5
DEYTUKURJERBS
Thread Starter
Hmm. the doors weigh an absolute fucking ton, looking at them, the inner frame is as substantial as the outer jobs, so they need gutting, though obv the outer frame etc wont be touched.
19-06-2008, 09:07 AM
#6
Depends on the car, but generally YES doors do have a fairly important role to play in rigidity, jack a car up with the door open and then try shutting the door and you'll see what i mean.
Counter intuitive given that they are only bolted on a couple of hinges one end a small catch the other, but it really does seem to make a difference!
wheel well doesnt do anything important structurally generally
Counter intuitive given that they are only bolted on a couple of hinges one end a small catch the other, but it really does seem to make a difference!
wheel well doesnt do anything important structurally generally
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19-06-2008, 09:24 AM
#8
MAD Carbon Cossie
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Stav,
I've cut the spare wheel well outta mine & my brother welded a plate in it's place ! Haven't noticed any difference in the way the car drive's or handle's !
As for the doors, my front one's are complete doors as normal (not for much longer tho
), the rears have been completely gutted & as much cut away as possible, then a carbon door card rivited over to hide the butchery behind ! Again, the rear doors will weigh a hell of a lot less very soon !
So I say go for it !
What car it on ? The Chaser ?
jb
I've cut the spare wheel well outta mine & my brother welded a plate in it's place ! Haven't noticed any difference in the way the car drive's or handle's !
As for the doors, my front one's are complete doors as normal (not for much longer tho
), the rears have been completely gutted & as much cut away as possible, then a carbon door card rivited over to hide the butchery behind ! Again, the rear doors will weigh a hell of a lot less very soon ! So I say go for it !
What car it on ? The Chaser ?
jb
19-06-2008, 09:30 AM
#9
DEYTUKURJERBS
Thread Starter
Yeah the Chaser, they are like THE heaviest doors known to man, really never lifted doors so heavy, not even 5 series BMW doors.
The car weighs over 1.5tons even totally stripped as it is (not even any heaters/blowers), and I want to get it a lot less.
Plastic windows (side window glass weighs a ton as its extra thick as the doors are pillarless) and as much spare metal from it as humanly (and financially ) possible.
The car weighs over 1.5tons even totally stripped as it is (not even any heaters/blowers), and I want to get it a lot less.
Plastic windows (side window glass weighs a ton as its extra thick as the doors are pillarless) and as much spare metal from it as humanly (and financially
) possible.
Last edited by Stavros; 19-06-2008 at 09:31 AM.
19-06-2008, 10:55 AM
#10
years ago people used to take everything they could out of mk1 and 2 escorts doors
even start drilling big round holes in the frame to cut the weight.
then it was f/glass doors,wings bonnet and boot, but would you really fancy rolling or crunching it with so much weight removed
even start drilling big round holes in the frame to cut the weight.
then it was f/glass doors,wings bonnet and boot, but would you really fancy rolling or crunching it with so much weight removed
19-06-2008, 10:58 AM
#11
DEYTUKURJERBS
Thread Starter
I have no regard for my own safety, so thats not an issue
Foam filling the sills and pillars will more than make up for the cutting out it seems, but then that makes having a weld in cage fitted in the future rather difficult...
Foam filling the sills and pillars will more than make up for the cutting out it seems, but then that makes having a weld in cage fitted in the future rather difficult...
19-06-2008, 11:00 AM
#12
Testing the future
you try bending a wheel well, and then bending a flat bit of sheet of the same thickness in a moncoque design, every panel and crease adds 'strength' in one direction or another, but i wouldn't worry about it
in a moncoque design, every panel and crease adds 'strength' in one direction or another, but i wouldn't worry about it
19-06-2008, 11:02 AM
#13
MAD Carbon Cossie
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Yep, i cut big holes in things too !
Cut the tow bar off the front too !Didn't think she'd break down & haven't got round to fitting the Audi TT tow eye yet !
I got no regards for my own saftey either, so everything must go to save weight !
Crack on stav, take some piccy's of the amount you do cut out & if you need someone handy wit a grinder, give me a shout
jb
Cut the tow bar off the front too !
Didn't think she'd break down & haven't got round to fitting the Audi TT tow eye yet ! I got no regards for my own saftey either, so everything must go to save weight !
Crack on stav, take some piccy's of the amount you do cut out & if you need someone handy wit a grinder, give me a shout
jb
19-06-2008, 11:03 AM
#14
Twistin me melon man
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i was looking round a (genuine) rapidfit mk2 BTCC mondeo the other day, and we noticed the doors weighed next to fuck all!
on a standard mondeo door, even with the window motors, speakers, mirror motors, central locking system etc etc all removed, its still a very heavy door.
but the touring car has the full roll cage so doesnt need the doors for any strength.
on a standard mondeo door, even with the window motors, speakers, mirror motors, central locking system etc etc all removed, its still a very heavy door.
but the touring car has the full roll cage so doesnt need the doors for any strength.
19-06-2008, 11:39 AM
#15
Advanced PassionFord User
no point removing the well unless its for exhaust clearance, it pressed from a flat sheet anyway, and the flat sheet you replace it with would need stiffening anyway!
19-06-2008, 11:42 AM
#16
19-06-2008, 11:43 AM
#17
DEYTUKURJERBS
Thread Starter
19-06-2008, 11:44 AM
#18
Yeah the Chaser, they are like THE heaviest doors known to man, really never lifted doors so heavy, not even 5 series BMW doors.
The car weighs over 1.5tons even totally stripped as it is (not even any heaters/blowers), and I want to get it a lot less.
Plastic windows (side window glass weighs a ton as its extra thick as the doors are pillarless) and as much spare metal from it as humanly (and financially ) possible.
The car weighs over 1.5tons even totally stripped as it is (not even any heaters/blowers), and I want to get it a lot less.
Plastic windows (side window glass weighs a ton as its extra thick as the doors are pillarless) and as much spare metal from it as humanly (and financially
) possible.A large portion of that weight will be the window mechanism I suspect, which typically does nothing at all for rigidity so im sure you can lose a lot of the weight without any significant compromise on rigidity.
The door glass itself is a varied one, in some cars it makes a difference and in others it doesnt seem to, personally though, id bin it for perspex.
19-06-2008, 11:53 AM
#19
DEYTUKURJERBS
Thread Starter
its double thickness due to door being pillarless, so weighs a ton compared to the rear screen even.
the inner door metal is more substantial than ive ever seen too, so will weight fuckloads.
ive picked up the doors are heavier than even E39 bmw ones, and thats saying something, they are mentally heavy.
the inner door metal is more substantial than ive ever seen too, so will weight fuckloads.
ive picked up the doors are heavier than even E39 bmw ones, and thats saying something, they are mentally heavy.
Last edited by Stavros; 19-06-2008 at 11:54 AM.
19-06-2008, 12:07 PM
#21
DEYTUKURJERBS
Thread Starter
oh ill take all that out too tho, plastic windows and sliders will do.
i DO want a cage, very much so, but i cant afford one at mo, but can afford disc cutter blades
i DO want a cage, very much so, but i cant afford one at mo, but can afford disc cutter blades
19-06-2008, 12:12 PM
#22
Ah, that old chestnut, cash!
Surely you can get some of your pikey drift mates (I mean that a compliment, I love pikey mods) to knock you up something basic for next to nothing? Or is it a case of you will get one later on so dont want to fuck about welding shit in now that will get in the way when you do it properly?
Surely you can get some of your pikey drift mates (I mean that a compliment, I love pikey mods) to knock you up something basic for next to nothing? Or is it a case of you will get one later on so dont want to fuck about welding shit in now that will get in the way when you do it properly?
19-06-2008, 04:04 PM
#24
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I doubt doors offer any structural rigidity at all, i'd gut them completely.....as for not being able to close them when the car is jacked up, that's just cos the chassis is twisting slightly rather than the door.
In fact remove them totally for a day and see what it's like
.....it can't be illegal can it? mini moke's don't have doors and they are monsters
In fact remove them totally for a day and see what it's like
.....it can't be illegal can it? mini moke's don't have doors and they are monsters
19-06-2008, 04:19 PM
#26
i think it's beacuse the doors are pillareless that they weight so much, all down to the aforementinoed "safety" nuggets that are required for it to pass crash tests etc
here's a nice method of working out what's what
remove all the doors and see how the car handles
if there is no significant/perceptable difference to you then gut them andweld a bar across the length of then to reintroduce the rigidity lost by cutting them to bits
if there is a huge difference then don't fuck about and go on a diet
here's a nice method of working out what's what
remove all the doors and see how the car handles
if there is no significant/perceptable difference to you then gut them andweld a bar across the length of then to reintroduce the rigidity lost by cutting them to bits
if there is a huge difference then don't fuck about and go on a diet
20-06-2008, 11:44 AM
#27
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I doubt doors offer any structural rigidity at all, i'd gut them completely.....as for not being able to close them when the car is jacked up, that's just cos the chassis is twisting slightly rather than the door.
In fact remove them totally for a day and see what it's like .....it can't be illegal can it? mini moke's don't have doors and they are monsters
In fact remove them totally for a day and see what it's like
.....it can't be illegal can it? mini moke's don't have doors and they are monsters 
and to prove it get a stupid mate to jam his finger in the shut line and then jack the car up
20-06-2008, 12:14 PM
#28
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what about gutting the doors and then adding some cheap light bracing in important areas? save a bit of weight and keep some rigidity?
I used to work in the press shop at Toyota (not any real relevance to your car I know) and I would say if the boot is a similar design then the wheel well is of little importance, simply a pressed well tacked into the chassis, basically filling the hole.
Doors are a strange one, the inners by themselves weigh fuck all, as do the outers (skin) I would be surprised if cutting out the inner would remove much weight, from memory an average avensis or 3dr corolla door inner was about half a KG, same for the outer, my guess is the window frame adds a fair bit of weight, along with the glass and whatever other gubbins is inside them.
I used to work in the press shop at Toyota (not any real relevance to your car I know) and I would say if the boot is a similar design then the wheel well is of little importance, simply a pressed well tacked into the chassis, basically filling the hole.
Doors are a strange one, the inners by themselves weigh fuck all, as do the outers (skin) I would be surprised if cutting out the inner would remove much weight, from memory an average avensis or 3dr corolla door inner was about half a KG, same for the outer, my guess is the window frame adds a fair bit of weight, along with the glass and whatever other gubbins is inside them.
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