the future of cars
#41
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From: Norfolk, UK
#42
The reason folk dont already use alternative vehicles is the high initial purchase price!
If I could buy a leccy car for cheap then I'd already have one!
Given that the most I've ever spent on a car is around £1000 I cant see it ever being a viable alternative.
For the moment I stick to 'bangernomics', which is actually the most environmentally sound option of the lot!
Theres a very good article that compares driving a Morris Minor to driving a new Prius. Taking into account the amount of remanufacturing thats gone on and the amount of carbon expended just to make the prius the Minor comes out top. Its never been 'recycled' and has had virtually no environmental impact since its creation 40 years ago.
My current escort is the same, on a lesser scale. In the 18 years its been on the road, the only impact its had is emissions.
Buying a 'new' car is simply not environmentally sound, it makes no logical sense when you look at the life of its component parts. As for electric cars - what do we do with the moutain of dud batteries that are an inevitable by-product in 5-10 years?
If I could buy a leccy car for cheap then I'd already have one!
Given that the most I've ever spent on a car is around £1000 I cant see it ever being a viable alternative.
For the moment I stick to 'bangernomics', which is actually the most environmentally sound option of the lot!
Theres a very good article that compares driving a Morris Minor to driving a new Prius. Taking into account the amount of remanufacturing thats gone on and the amount of carbon expended just to make the prius the Minor comes out top. Its never been 'recycled' and has had virtually no environmental impact since its creation 40 years ago.
My current escort is the same, on a lesser scale. In the 18 years its been on the road, the only impact its had is emissions.
Buying a 'new' car is simply not environmentally sound, it makes no logical sense when you look at the life of its component parts. As for electric cars - what do we do with the moutain of dud batteries that are an inevitable by-product in 5-10 years?
#43
#44
we already have the solar power age, grants to stick them on your roof ,20 years to brake even ,panel life 20 years don't see that as viable lol
#46
yes I have wonder what the actual mass production cost is compared to the retail cost perhaps they are priced for proffit.Wonder how much a scrap yard sells them for secondhand off a crashed prius . Battery life is apparently extremely good not uncommon in the states to have done 500k miles and still going strong.Time will tell
#47
#48
also, there are other ways of using solar power. there's that place that uses loads of mirrors to focus a beam up the top of a tower
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_tower
#49
that's not on a large scale though, with the economy of scale that goes with it and future developments in technology.
also, there are other ways of using solar power. there's that place that uses loads of mirrors to focus a beam up the top of a tower
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_tower
also, there are other ways of using solar power. there's that place that uses loads of mirrors to focus a beam up the top of a tower
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_tower
is that the domestic kit lol
#50
how would the prius compare if you used 40 years of use in your calculation
Just think of the amount of times the steel used in a new prius has been recycled throughout its lifetime
Time and time again the steel's been through an arc furnace, which obviously uses a hell of a lot of electricity, the interior plastics have been made a new - plastic being oil based, and all the other stuff included in manufacture.
Thats not including the environmental cost of providing the power to run the thing on a daily basis, then theres the chemicals in the batteries.. etc..etc..
The Minor is an extreme case but it proves the point. I think we should address wasteage before we address problems with manufacture and consumption.
To be honest I think the first thing we should do is replace all fossil-fuel power stations with nuclear ones. Nuclear energy being truly clean afaik.
Fair enough you have nuclear waste to deal with but we're only talking small quantities that. for the sake of argument, could be regularly blasted out to space.
#51
tony, you are nearly as always deliberately obtuse as i am are you a grumpy old man as well
EDIT: that is 11MW, a bit much for a domestic application?
EDIT: that is 11MW, a bit much for a domestic application?
Last edited by foreigneRS; 29-05-2008 at 01:10 PM.
#52
I think the older car would still win in the end.
Just think of the amount of times the steel used in a new prius has been recycled throughout its lifetime
Time and time again the steel's been through an arc furnace, which obviously uses a hell of a lot of electricity, the interior plastics have been made a new - plastic being oil based, and all the other stuff included in manufacture.
Thats not including the environmental cost of providing the power to run the thing on a daily basis, then theres the chemicals in the batteries.. etc..etc..
The Minor is an extreme case but it proves the point. I think we should address wasteage before we address problems with manufacture and consumption.
To be honest I think the first thing we should do is replace all fossil-fuel power stations with nuclear ones. Nuclear energy being truly clean afaik.
Fair enough you have nuclear waste to deal with but we're only talking small quantities that. for the sake of argument, could be regularly blasted out to space.
Just think of the amount of times the steel used in a new prius has been recycled throughout its lifetime
Time and time again the steel's been through an arc furnace, which obviously uses a hell of a lot of electricity, the interior plastics have been made a new - plastic being oil based, and all the other stuff included in manufacture.
Thats not including the environmental cost of providing the power to run the thing on a daily basis, then theres the chemicals in the batteries.. etc..etc..
The Minor is an extreme case but it proves the point. I think we should address wasteage before we address problems with manufacture and consumption.
To be honest I think the first thing we should do is replace all fossil-fuel power stations with nuclear ones. Nuclear energy being truly clean afaik.
Fair enough you have nuclear waste to deal with but we're only talking small quantities that. for the sake of argument, could be regularly blasted out to space.
#53
#56
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that's not on a large scale though, with the economy of scale that goes with it and future developments in technology.
also, there are other ways of using solar power. there's that place that uses loads of mirrors to focus a beam up the top of a tower
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_tower
also, there are other ways of using solar power. there's that place that uses loads of mirrors to focus a beam up the top of a tower
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_tower
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