CWA

This really has been baffling me..

Just been having a youtube discussion (lol) with a guy trying to convince me that drifting through corners is faster than driving with the conservation of grip..

Having done neither on a track - i have been trying to think this through logically.. and have pretty much ended up confusing myself.

i mean, basically if you drift through a corner, not all of the engines power is going to be applied to forward motion, if there is not full traction so surely exit speed is less than if you are driving with grip maintained..

but then at the same time, drifting allows you to carry through more momentum into the corner with a quicker entry speed whereas a car driving with grip will have to enter slower to avoid losing traction under the turning forces?

i'm convinced purely by thinking of the physics of it, that driving with grip is faster.. but i'm really not sure..

some people claim drifting a corner is faster than driving with grip.. but if this is the case then why don't Touring cars / F1 drivers do it?

i mean.. it's just logical.. right?

gosh i don't know! anyone want to shed some light on it?

CWA

groomers

drifting is slower but lots more fun!

Jim Galbally

drifting is nowhere near as fast! not even close

lead_foot

iTrader: (1)

Watch some video's of the same track and same corner with drift car's drifting round it then watch track cars go round. (try Castle coombe, there was a few drift cars round there recently).

rostill2007

drifting scrubs of loads of speed but puts on loads of smiles

CWA

i thought so! maan, i need to try this for real - this douche-bag is trying to convince me drifting is faster when that's just not logically possible..

would love to try it though.. don't think my bug has enough beef to sustain a good one yet though! lol

Lloyd

,you need to be as smooth as posible,and right on the edge of traction before it drifts.

rostill2007

drifting is easy done even in a beetle if you have some where muddy to do it i have drifted a shitbox kia 4x4 an that was fully sideways lol mud is all it takes

CWA

oh yeah lol have done that.. (just not on tarmac yet)

it was when i went to this mates field with this orion in!

i took the bug for a spin and got my first ever oversteer experience there!
then started trying a doughnut for the first time ever.. did one spin then looked back to see his whole field churned up.. and he wasn't best impressed so made me stop lol ):

what a field..

madmack99

drifting is slower

lead_foot

iTrader: (1)

Yeah OK mate.

rostill2007

nothing beats that the horses arnt impressed by a car spinning or goin sideways or doin donut halfway up there field either but they soon get used to it and dont care lol (its quite far from horses btw so no one can get mixxed up and think i like to scare horses)
LEAD FOOT: it says muddy field

dovboy

drifting is not faster,the closest you will get is the weight being shifted prior to a corner to allow more acceleration on the exit(can look a bit like a drift under braking but only just!).

CWA

for those who like to be technical amongst us - probably should clarify that it's not real drifting i can do in my bug - more just oversteer and kicking the back end out for a few seconds for a laugh.

i only did it in second gear, and yes - in a muddy field!

but still, its probably easier and more fun than your average FWD car right?

Stavros

drifting is slower, but its not "miles" slower like a lot of people think. just cause what you seen or can do would be miles slower, dont make it so.

thinking having full 100% traction and not under/oversteering at all is the fastest way at all times is massivley wrong too. best way in a race when you have to conserve your tyres, yes, fastest no, not by a fucking long shot, thats from the same book of "theory is one thing, reality is different" as zero wheelspin is always the fastest way to launch, and revving past peak power is pointless...

tho its not the ultimately fastest way around, a lot of people can drift round a series of corners faster than most people would ever drive them, mainly as the entry speed to many corners when drifting, if you are good enough, is way higher.

silverstone national circuit is a good example coming down the national straight into brooklands, top drift cars coming in to that clocked at 130mph scrubbing off to 95odd on the exit, wheras grip cars are going fucking miles slower.

i mean, do you really think you could drive this bit of knockhill faster, in a 80quid BMW on 195 wide road tyres?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqAs3gdFkao
Honestly?

a lot of corners though, yeah, youd have to be a bit of a retard to think drifting is the fastest way round.

foreigneRS

i'm with you on that steve. i closely followed bonbon and a mate around the 'ring one year where they drifted every corner (serious talent that i was extremely jealous about, but in total awe of ) and they were not going much slower than they would have been driving 'properly' - maybe 1 minute over the length of the 'ring making a BTG of about 10 minutes i estimate, and they didn't enough know it at all

Stavros

And that was years ago, in a relativley crap car with lowish power and lowish grip. Now he is LOADS better, and has a car with twice the power and 265 wide semi slick tyres...

fuzzy

have you ever seen an F1 or any other track race car drift around the corners?

foreigneRS

one reason is that they can't afford to take the risk of spinning out, and they need to make their tyres last longer.

have you ever seen a rally car drift around a corner? pretty much all the time, especially on snow or ice

fuzzy

but thats due to lack of grip on the gravelly or snowy surface.

foreigneRS

not really - go slowly enough and you will have grip. it just happens that using the momentum of the car in a drift is faster on those surfaces

cossie604

iTrader: (2)

Kev.H

will we see f1 cars drifting round monaco this weekend i think not lol

cutch

iTrader: (1)

I have a pic of my cousin doing the same thing racing at knockhill!

toff

iTrader: (1)

Who's that Clutch ? Bob ?? He,s the only one ave seen doing it right
Keith has done it a few time too

Mr C

iTrader: (2)

of sorts yes, watch lewis hamilton into the 2x hairpim this wekend at monte carlo, kart style he has it oversteering on entry and through untill ready for power= free turn in, obviously not drifting as his tyres would bobble and be worthless for 90% of the lap.

STAVROS that BMW at knockhill was full bore, top talent

vibrating_cake

also hamilton drifting monoco i think, that back end was out on the entry and exit to a lot of the corners, and in the press release after when he got slated for going so close to the barriers he admitted he liked the car oversteering and wasnt afraid of crashing because he thought it would be a good "experience"

drifting is cool.
grip is cool.
depending on the surface, track and race length drift vs grip is a close battle.
but tbh drift cars with silly silly power to keep the back end out vs a similar grip car with similar amount of power i should think the grip car would win it... but as stated above, it'd be bloody close!

dovboy

if the guy in the bm at knockhill didnt clip the skyline then he had my vote to go through,the angle he had was sick,top driver

AlexF

Everytime Sabine stuck the tail out SiB and I nearly overtook her!!

Its slower - and by quite alot!

Stavros

but who said sabine is good at doing it fast? these comparisons are pointless.

its deffo slower in most situations, but saying its slower just because some slightly manly german bird does it slower mans bugger all.

same as tiff needell, he does it mega slow in comparison to decent people, and he famous for it.

AlexF

good point Steve!

big_wig_074

who cares?drifting is more fun!!!!!!!

cossiecrew

by a billion miles

jammy86

Do F1 cars drift? No.

In rally it might be quicker but thats because grip isnt the same as on tarmac.

JAmes.

Rick

For me, drifiting for the sake of it in a race seems daft. It's cool to watch, but only when someone racing properly has overdone it coming into a bend, and ends up in a drift trying to keep the car facing the wrong way. Slow in fast out, not the other way round.

big_wig_074

rally cars still slide on tarmac on hairpins etc and they are more akin to a road car than a f1 car is.if you use the f1 likening to everything then your car would be crap,unless you have a car that is mid engined,has a 19000rpm v8,uses massive outboard wheels,no roof or windscreen etc...f1 is so not relevant to road cars itrs unreal.