we done a few dyno days for fords and always prove to be interesting.

my question is why do you guys with cosworths put up with such shit fueling when you change to bigger injectors??

the worst today was a escos that sat in car park black smoking and when in dyno was running 0.68 or 10to1afr!!!!wtf even on crusie sites it was still .88,was leaner on boost then was at idle

discuss

 

maybe it was just a few bad examples youve had or bad examples of maps?

 

i hate to think what my escos is like at the mo,its doing 180 miles to a tank and i really need to get her back to harvey to check her over.it was built by him but the previous owner took it elsewhere at some point and its not pushing what it should on greys

 

It's every car we've ever seen on Cossie management, except one or two. The one Gary is referring to actually pegged our Wideband, which can only read down to 10.0:1 AFR.

Bore-wash anyone?

 

so whats the answer?

 

Don,t have that prob i run MSD closed loop

Paul

 

Proper mapping !!
Think this is one of the things that gets cosworths a bad name the cloud of black smoke when drove hard. I have seen a few Ahmed cars that are quite bad but he may just map on the safe side.

 

We figured that there must be a reason for it, but just can't think why.

With RST's its due to the primative adjustment on MFI. When we map 200SX's we map them so close that often they run better with the closed-loop turned off, so dying to know why Cossie's are so fuelly on Idle. The car I referred to had 1400PPM Hydrocarbons when we put it on the gas analyser.

 

But you don't need 10.0:1 to idle safely.

 

ALL ahmed chips are like thatas u say safe but less power

Paul

 

so if its weber managent is it better to get someone other than ahmed to map ?

 

I dont put up with bad fueling,,, sadly theres alot of self tuners out there, running very missmatch setups !!

 

I once cheecked over a mates saph 2 days after it had gone to engine advantages for a new chip and set up.

The thing was running 9:1 afr under heavy load and 10.5-11:1 under light load.

I told him to take it back and get his money back.

When he rang them they fobded him of with the usual "Is set like that to run safe mate" story and not knowing much about engines he accepted their word.

I can under stand being a bit rich to take in account of cylinder airflow differences, injector flow differences etc but that was just lousy mapping!

 

...........fuck all wrong with mine.....

 

its all do to poor mapping, its the same i the world of rallying, we go to scrutinering and you hear so rough running cars it un true, bad starting, flat spots excessive fuel consumption, my cars always run sweet.

 

I've checked a few cossie's, and seen plenty dyno sheets with the AFR graph, and it amases me too.

Some tuners, just should be put on Rouge traders for their poor work.


But i dont see where this thread is ment to go, As i'm sure Gary knows the reason is just pure bad workmanship.

 

But the thing is, they aren't always that bad on boost.

The amount of Cossie's that fuel badly on-boost isn't really any higher than the proportional amount of other cars we see that fuel badly. It's the off-boost thing that we find so mysterious.

Is it that they just wop a big set of injectors in and only map the on-boost, leaving the new larger injectors puddling fuel in as per the fuelling numbers that were already there for the original injectors in the bottom of the map?

 

How many of the cars today were actually live mapped and not fitted with just an off the shelf chip? My car was live mapped by Ahmed and no black smoke, infact hardly any smoke at all.

 

i've seen / heard of countless EA's (even some well respeced tuners too) cars running 8% on idle, and in the 10's on boost.



i think alot of them are due to some tuners using shelf chips, and only careing if the AFR @ redline @ full load is safe, OR havent got the equipment to modifie and re burn a chip.
just up the fuel pressure to make the top end safe.

 

I think that some of the problems come from the fact that every tom dick and harry is calling them selves a mapper nowadays

 

It is down to everyone tom dick and harry not having a rolling road in thier back pocket.
Interesting you should mention ecu's, as I have always had the opinion that by the time you had swapped from a L1/6 to CL plus coilpack etc, you might as well just get a far better ecu, money wise with better ability.
A 3d ecu now starts at Ł350, Cyclone ecu's are not bad at all, as EFI who make them for Lotus know what they are doing for example, and very competitively priced, if this is all you want from an ecu.
I really can't see why people bother with the std cossie ecu either.
EA really are a joke, masses of boost, then a SERIOUS peg back above 3500 on the timing.
As you say with MODERN electronicss there really is no reason, but cost, mind you the way fuel is going up it won't take it long to get back!!
Without being able to test the results of any work done, it has to go on trust.
I recently drove a skyline mapped by yourselves which was awsome, really good job, spot on, and so much nicer to drive as a result, we were just trying to find an odd noise, so I drove while he listened, we found a bulge in a tyre!!
tabetha

 

It's all relative, i'm sure there are just as many jap cars out there running too rich.

some people don't pay the money for the mapping to be done perfectly, the tuner then has to make the decision of what's more important....a melted engine or some excessive cruise fuelling.

I'm not saying it's right but you can only do so much for some people.

Off the shelf chips can obviously make things more difficult too.

 

Surely a professional company would refuse to do anything rather than cut corners?


Benni.

 

The trouble is with off the shelf chips some of it has to come down to guess work.

 

some do, some don't....i'd say 8 out of 10 customers that go to a tuner want the most power they can have, with economy as a lesser important objective.

To map a car perfectly, so that it's fuelling spot on for every single condition? i bet that takes longer than most tuners can assign to one car for one mapping charge.

 

Also i bet on LOTS of occasions the tuner spends time fixing problems the owner didn't even know about, and for which they can't really charge for.

some cars arrive barely running! and the owner expects to get it back ready to thrash and with bags of power, all for Ł400 or Ł500......i bet there's not many cars (other than repeat customers) that turn up and are instantly ready to start remapping?

 

ive just spoke to my cars previous owner(thanks rich)and it has had a karl norris live map.and it sounds like i have a problem with a sensor more than anything.which is pleasing.so it will be back to karl asap i think.

 

hope you get it sorted mate!

 

When I had my cossie it use to run 12.5:1 AFR - Ahmed live mapped
340hp

 

well i think it´s all about time.
A map in england takes a day, it take s3 days in sweeden and coast 5 times as much.
My off the shelf chip did 8km/l with 330kit, and a live map in sweeden with 400bhp did 10,5km/l.
a cossie can easyli do 10km/l but it all depends on the mapper

 

my car normally runs fine no smoke etc.. but las few days its just started over fuelling bad.. idles like shit and light black smoke comes out on load.

 

this thread sounds to me like lets blame the mapper in most cases it is probaly the car or the person setting it up all webber chips done by ahmed msd stu karl or myself are mapped with the co pot at zero position.Has any body checked the co pot position before they blame the off the shelf type chip.The co pot is a global adjustment

 

In the case of the EA chip, they had the car. It was chip fitted and set up by themselves so no excuses.

 

if you read my post it doesn't mention EA as a mapper hmmmmm

 

We aren't trying to point fingers, if you see one or two cars like it, then thats as maybe, but EVERY Cossie managed car we have ever had on our Dyno (Escos, Sapphire, ERST etc etc), except maybe one or two sits and idles at between 0.68 and 0.80 lambda. No other car we work on shows such horrific idle/off boost fuelling.

Even Gary's Evo with mega-lumpy cams and 1000cc Injectors idles at between 0.96 and 1.00.

We were merely wondering why Cossies cant seem to do it.

 

I wouldnt accept that sort of shite.

My YB runs 14:1 on idle, 15:1 on cruise, and high 11s on boost.

 

they can and often do something wrong with the cars you have seen

 

Ps

As for the reason that its "all the cars you see on cossie management" my only explanation for that would be that frankly anyone who already has a decent well established cosworth tuner who knows what they are doing tuning it on board with sorting their car, probably wouldnt be going to some backstreet tuner in norwich who no one in the world of cosworths has really heard of?

By definition, you are only going to get people coming to get their cars looked at, if they feel there is soemthing wrong with it surely?

 

.. and not only that, there is a huge aftermarket for people to trade in chips and other crap - how many people running an msd/ahmed/nms/whoever chip actually had their cars set up with the relevant tuner? I bet it's the minority.

 

.. and what about the amount of 'cossie managed' non-YB's that running YB chips?

Unfortunately the internet is heavily responsible for the current breed of DIY'ers. People who consult t'internet and consider themselves not only able, but qualified to then advise people on such matters.

People who have a spec list in their sig longer than their arm; how many of these have actually had someone who knows what they're doing look at them?