Swedish inlet on standard head.
31-03-2008, 01:03 PM
#81
I cannot speak for the numerous copies, hence why I only comment on the one that I sell. I am always dubious about things that haven't been properly tested and are sold on the back of someone else's tried and tested product as being as good, when no development as gone into it - especially if it is only a loose copy....
I don't think it is worth fitting anything other than an EECIV one below 500bhp.
I don't think it is worth fitting anything other than an EECIV one below 500bhp.
31-03-2008, 01:10 PM
#82
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is it the BIG power bit that's the key here?
the post was about standard heads with that manifold...
31-03-2008, 01:12 PM
#83
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To which he has replied there is no point fitting it under 500BHP..... People always want to bolt on everything they see on the monster engines, but it does not work well like that, the golden rule is don't over-spec.....
31-03-2008, 01:28 PM
#85
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yeah... think we were typing at the same time.
31-03-2008, 01:28 PM
#86
Put it this way, on my own car, when I was looking for ultimate response on the previous engine, I started to have it mapped with the Swedish plenum, but got to 5000rpm and switched back to the EECIV plenum, as all the power improvements were at the top end and I wanted response over power.
At the end of the day, it depends what you want to build the engine for - peak power? Then yes, it will give a 20bhp improvement at high rpm against a restrictive inlet (based on tests with a T4), but at the expense of a loss of low down response.
I wouldn't fit one on an engine that wasn't running a turbo that was T4 sized or bigger, as the standard items flow enough for the restriction / response compromises.
You have to make your choice, but the engine absolutely MUST be live mapped IMO for the flow differences.
At the end of the day, it depends what you want to build the engine for - peak power? Then yes, it will give a 20bhp improvement at high rpm against a restrictive inlet (based on tests with a T4), but at the expense of a loss of low down response.
I wouldn't fit one on an engine that wasn't running a turbo that was T4 sized or bigger, as the standard items flow enough for the restriction / response compromises.
You have to make your choice, but the engine absolutely MUST be live mapped IMO for the flow differences.
31-03-2008, 03:10 PM
#94
so whats everyone saying on these then
my car is running a t35 at the minute, the head is off and being ported and polished as we speak, so id thought id get one of these as at a later date alls i need to do then is turbo,cams and injectors and a live map
but i wont be having a live ma when i fit this, i spoke to stu and he can alter my chip to compensate on the head porting and swedish inlet anyhow
but am i going to see a disadvantage, dont mind lag etc and the car is laggy anyhow, im just worried now about it going lean, as i dont want to have a live ma until the mods are finished with the engine
my car is running a t35 at the minute, the head is off and being ported and polished as we speak, so id thought id get one of these as at a later date alls i need to do then is turbo,cams and injectors and a live map
but i wont be having a live ma when i fit this, i spoke to stu and he can alter my chip to compensate on the head porting and swedish inlet anyhow
but am i going to see a disadvantage, dont mind lag etc and the car is laggy anyhow, im just worried now about it going lean, as i dont want to have a live ma until the mods are finished with the engine
31-03-2008, 03:26 PM
#97
This was just to get a rough idea. However, the main test was done using motorbike carb balancing gauges, which were put on the inlet trumpets to measure how quickly / evenly each one came onto boost and the engine was then run up on the dyno. This is how we know it's no good for response. It is also no good for a low boost engine, as below 11psi there is a small delay in number 4 cylinder receiving airflow.
31-03-2008, 03:30 PM
#98
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mines going to be seeing comfortably over 500bhp, and its still on an EECIV inlet, but with a plenum spacer 
im certainly not going to buying a swedish inlet when i have no real need to, and if i was still running 380 - 400bhp i wouldnt even have had the thought in my head of one - unless you want it there for a little bit of a nicer look!?!?
im certainly not going to buying a swedish inlet when i have no real need to, and if i was still running 380 - 400bhp i wouldnt even have had the thought in my head of one - unless you want it there for a little bit of a nicer look!?!?
31-03-2008, 03:35 PM
#99
This was just to get a rough idea. However, the main test was done using motorbike carb balancing gauges, which were put on the inlet trumpets to measure how quickly / evenly each one came onto boost and the engine was then run up on the dyno. This is how we know it's no good for response. It is also no good for a low boost engine, as below 11psi there is a small delay in number 4 cylinder receiving airflow.
31-03-2008, 03:38 PM
#100
The restriction is in the elbow on a 2wd one, so no surprises that you are having surge. You need to modify the elbow (there are pictures somewhere of the Jenspeed modded one), or fit an EECIV inlet with the spacer.
Last edited by Mike Rainbird; 31-03-2008 at 03:39 PM.
31-03-2008, 03:42 PM
#101
so to illterate on what ur saying mike there will be less power low down but a increase in the higher part of the rev range if i have got u right will it make the car alot more lathargic at low throttle or will it still be a improvment over a standard item
31-03-2008, 04:08 PM
#102
As I said, I personally wouldn't put one on a car until 500bhp+ was wanted. Now considering I sell them, I think you can safely say this is honest advice.....
31-03-2008, 04:23 PM
#105
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The bigger the plenum, the "lazier" it will feel at low rpm, as the gas speeds will be slowed down dramatically by the increased volume, at high rpm its not an issue due to how much air is being pumped.
As I said, I personally wouldn't put one on a car until 500bhp+ was wanted. Now considering I sell them, I think you can safely say this is honest advice.....
As I said, I personally wouldn't put one on a car until 500bhp+ was wanted. Now considering I sell them, I think you can safely say this is honest advice.....
31-03-2008, 04:24 PM
#107
Have seen results on the Dyno Ł3k inlet against the spaced RS500 plenum the spaced RS500 was better. Although ive just forked out for a new Ł3k exhaust manifold im sticking with my Spaced RS500 . Ive seen no reason to buy one of these inlets at Power levels now approaching 800bhp.
just look sharp in the vectra next month 
Last edited by Jay,; 31-03-2008 at 04:26 PM.
31-03-2008, 04:26 PM
#108
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I've been looking into manifold design before but can't find the info I was looking at 
heres some info I just found.
I can't see how a long tapered tube with 4 mouths feeding it will give you equal flow when the valve is closed the air will come back out of the runner into the cover which would disturb the flow?
I'm not disputing if it works or not but there must be better ways??
all the other designs example m.i.s is still fed from the bottom why would they if they could use a swedish style?
taken from here
heres some info I just found. I can't see how a long tapered tube with 4 mouths feeding it will give you equal flow
when the valve is closed the air will come back out of the runner into the cover which would disturb the flow?I'm not disputing if it works or not but there must be better ways??
all the other designs example m.i.s is still fed from the bottom why would they if they could use a swedish style?
taken from here
HTML Code:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manifold_(automotive_engineering)
The design and orientation of the intake manifold is a major factor in the volumetric efficiency of an engine. High performing manifolds contain smooth contours and transitions between different segments. Manifolds that are restrictive and contain abrupt changes in contour produce pressure drops at these points. This reduction in manifold pressure results in less air (and fuel) actually entering the combustion chamber.
Modern intake manifolds usually contain intake runners. These are individual tubes extending to each intake port on the cylinder head. The purpose of the intake runner is to take advantage of the rarefaction pulse generated by closing the intake valve. When the valve is open, air is flowing through the valve at considerable speed. When this valve closes the air that has not yet entered the valve still has a lot of momentum and compresses against the valve, creating a pocket of high pressure air. This high pressure air begins to equalize with the lower pressure air in the manifold. This reduction of density at the end of the runner is what generates the rarefaction pulse. This pulse travels at the speed of sound, and in most intakes travels up and down the intake runner many times before the valve opens again.
To harness the full power of the rarefaction pulse the opening of the intake valve must be timed correctly otherwise the pulse could have a negative effect. This poses a very difficult problem for engines, since valve timing is dynamic and based on engine RPM, whereas the pulse timing is static and dependent on the length of the intake runner and the speed of sound. The traditional solution has been to tune the length of the intake runner for a specific RPM where maximum performance is desired. However, modern technology has given rise to a number of ingenious solutions involving electronically controlled valve timing, and dynamic intake geometry.
Some naturally aspirated intake systems operate at a volumetric efficiency above 100%. In other words the air pressure in the combustion chamber, before the compression stroke is greater than the atmospheric pressure. Some mechanics quickly dismiss this as impossible and a violation of the law of conservation of energy. It is important to understand that the additional energy required to compress the air above atmospheric pressure comes from the momentum of the piston.
Modern intake manifolds usually contain intake runners. These are individual tubes extending to each intake port on the cylinder head. The purpose of the intake runner is to take advantage of the rarefaction pulse generated by closing the intake valve. When the valve is open, air is flowing through the valve at considerable speed. When this valve closes the air that has not yet entered the valve still has a lot of momentum and compresses against the valve, creating a pocket of high pressure air. This high pressure air begins to equalize with the lower pressure air in the manifold. This reduction of density at the end of the runner is what generates the rarefaction pulse. This pulse travels at the speed of sound, and in most intakes travels up and down the intake runner many times before the valve opens again.
To harness the full power of the rarefaction pulse the opening of the intake valve must be timed correctly otherwise the pulse could have a negative effect. This poses a very difficult problem for engines, since valve timing is dynamic and based on engine RPM, whereas the pulse timing is static and dependent on the length of the intake runner and the speed of sound. The traditional solution has been to tune the length of the intake runner for a specific RPM where maximum performance is desired. However, modern technology has given rise to a number of ingenious solutions involving electronically controlled valve timing, and dynamic intake geometry.
Some naturally aspirated intake systems operate at a volumetric efficiency above 100%. In other words the air pressure in the combustion chamber, before the compression stroke is greater than the atmospheric pressure. Some mechanics quickly dismiss this as impossible and a violation of the law of conservation of energy. It is important to understand that the additional energy required to compress the air above atmospheric pressure comes from the momentum of the piston.
31-03-2008, 04:40 PM
#111
I've been looking into manifold design before but can't find the info I was looking at heres some info I just found.
I can't see how a long tapered tube with 4 mouths feeding it will give you equal flow when the valve is closed the air will come back out of the runner into the cover which would disturb the flow?
I'm not disputing if it works or not but there must be better ways??
all the other designs example m.i.s is still fed from the bottom why would they if they could use a swedish style?
taken from here
heres some info I just found. I can't see how a long tapered tube with 4 mouths feeding it will give you equal flow
when the valve is closed the air will come back out of the runner into the cover which would disturb the flow?I'm not disputing if it works or not but there must be better ways??
all the other designs example m.i.s is still fed from the bottom why would they if they could use a swedish style?
taken from here
HTML Code:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manifold_(automotive_engineering)
31-03-2008, 05:01 PM
#113
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Not sure if this has been said, are they astra VXR injectors?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...s/DSC00083.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...s/DSC00083.jpg
Last edited by RickyLee53; 31-03-2008 at 05:03 PM.
31-03-2008, 05:11 PM
#116
Not sure if this has been said, are they astra VXR injectors?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...s/DSC00083.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...s/DSC00083.jpg
your absolutely right mate im using these until i move up a stage in spec
31-03-2008, 05:20 PM
#118
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for all the people that have "copied" plenums you may to consider an ems that
can be map cylinders individually so you can adjust them to take or
add fuel if you want to be on the safe side or else you could be having quite
a few issues due to cylinders getting too hot etc
can be map cylinders individually so you can adjust them to take or
add fuel if you want to be on the safe side or else you could be having quite
a few issues due to cylinders getting too hot etc
31-03-2008, 05:37 PM
#120
jay
i see your point, but my car isnt going to be live mapped until i get the engine to full spec, but need to srt transmission out before that
i dont want to stick it on and for it to blow mmy engine up even with the alterations to the chip to compensate it
i see your point, but my car isnt going to be live mapped until i get the engine to full spec, but need to srt transmission out before that
i dont want to stick it on and for it to blow mmy engine up even with the alterations to the chip to compensate it