Live mapping tutorial by Stu.... Discussion Required
#161
PassionFords Creator
iTrader: (12)
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 28,824
Likes: 95
From: Blackpool, UK Destination: Rev limiter
Ok,
Heres an idea of what your looking at:
This is a L6 file of some form. How much exactly do you want to pay me to print that out on paper for you Neil? Are we talking hundreds?
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4d bd f8 15 39 83 00 64 24 01 39 c3 00 64 37 36
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b5 b3 b4 a7 8d 8d 8d 89 87 88 89 8c 8a 88 8e 91
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82 7d 80 7c 66 66 66 5e 5e 60 60 63 64 61 64 60
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52 4e 4f 51 3b 3b 3c 35 36 3b 39 3a 3d 3d 3e 39
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21 1d 1c 22 0d 0c 0d 0f 10 12 11 11 13 14 0f 0f
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1d 0c 20 80 04 01 17 c0 0d ff 10 18 59 0f 0f 0c
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15 11 0d 0d 0d 0d 0d 0d 3e 3e 3e 45 4e 5c 66 70
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39 01 46 01 77 01 d5 02 71 02 ee 00 04 82 8c c8
ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff 00 00 00 04 50
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00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 04 04 04 00 08 10 20 dd
71 e4 02 f0 dc 04 f4 02 18 a5 1e 1e 01 01 00 1d
92 a8 a8 a8 a8 a8 a4 a0 9c 94 8c 80 80 80 80 80
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00 00 08 00 06 02 02 02 04 02 02 00 00 08 00 00
00 06 02 04 02 02 02 00 08 00 00 06 02 02 04 02
02 02 00 08 00 06 02 02 02 04 02 02 02 00 01 04
01 03 01 00 01 0a 01 05 00 66 00 4b 00 4c 00 59
00 4a 80 66 22 44 90 76 32 54 a0 06 42 64 b0 16
52 74 c0 26 62 04 d0 36 72 14 20 02 20 04 20 06
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ff f7 ff ff fd ff fe ff ff ff 01 04 08 02 02 06
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22 01 04 01 00 01 03 01 04 01 0a 01 03 01 04 01
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59 00 4b 00 66 00 80 00 66 ff ff ff ff ff ff ff
e0 00 f4 4b f5 34 ef be e0 00 e0 00 f5 6a e0 00
Heres an idea of what your looking at:
This is a L6 file of some form. How much exactly do you want to pay me to print that out on paper for you Neil? Are we talking hundreds?
8e 00 ff 0f dc 15 c3 00 14 dd 1c 86 84 97 17 86
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b4 bd f7 17 d7 62 96 89 d6 83 26 04 8a 08 20 02
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15 11 0d 0d 0d 0d 0d 0d 3e 3e 3e 45 4e 5c 66 70
75 7b 82 87 87 87 82 81 45 45 45 4c 56 64 6e 76
7c 82 88 8c 8c 8c 87 85 be 9c 7d 62 50 44 3a 34
2c 26 23 20 20 20 20 20 fa fa fa a0 78 62 55 50
50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 9a 7c 64 52 43 37 2f 28
23 1e 19 14 10 10 10 10 40 64 00 20 00 12 00 1a
00 26 01 01 0d 51 00 00 00 80 2b f2 30 d4 04 00
30 05 10 10 10 04 04 e0 72 00 02 0c 02 06 60 c3
50 09 c4 b9 8c 01 2c 00 08 0a 80 bd bb 10 95 70
02 71 c3 50 3a 98 00 18 80 ff e4 8b 93 9e a9 b0
b9 c0 c9 00 80 ff ff f5 e4 d2 c8 00 85 00 95 00
b4 00 b9 00 bc 00 c3 00 c5 00 c8 00 c9 00 cc 00
d1 00 d2 00 d5 00 d6 00 db 00 dc 01 14 01 20 01
39 01 46 01 77 01 d5 02 71 02 ee 00 04 82 8c c8
ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff 00 00 00 04 50
5a c8 ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff 00 00 00 00 04
14 8c c8 ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff 00 00 00 00 04
14 8c c8 ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff 00 00 00 00 00
04 78 c8 c8 c8 c8 ff ff ff ff ff 00 00 00 00 00
00 00 00 04 32 53 c8 c8 c8 c8 c8 00 00 00 00 00
00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 4c 4c 4c 00 00 00 00 00
00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 04 04 04 00 08 10 20 dd
71 e4 02 f0 dc 04 f4 02 18 a5 1e 1e 01 01 00 1d
92 a8 a8 a8 a8 a8 a4 a0 9c 94 8c 80 80 80 80 80
80 0a aa ff 00 80 00 01 00 10 00 08 00 00 00 06
02 04 02 00 00 00 08 00 00 06 02 02 04 02 00 00
00 08 00 06 02 02 02 04 02 00 00 00 08 00 00 00
06 02 04 02 02 00 00 08 00 00 06 02 02 04 02 02
00 00 08 00 06 02 02 02 04 02 02 00 00 08 00 00
00 06 02 04 02 02 02 00 08 00 00 06 02 02 04 02
02 02 00 08 00 06 02 02 02 04 02 02 02 00 01 04
01 03 01 00 01 0a 01 05 00 66 00 4b 00 4c 00 59
00 4a 80 66 22 44 90 76 32 54 a0 06 42 64 b0 16
52 74 c0 26 62 04 d0 36 72 14 20 02 20 04 20 06
00 1a 80 01 11 a1 22 32 42 52 62 72 ff ff fb ff
ff f7 ff ff fd ff fe ff ff ff 01 04 08 02 02 06
00 04 07 0e 06 00 07 01 04 fd bd fd fd 80 52 01
22 01 04 01 00 01 03 01 04 01 0a 01 03 01 04 01
04 01 04 01 04 00 40 00 66 00 4c 00 4b 00 66 00
59 00 4b 00 66 00 80 00 66 ff ff ff ff ff ff ff
e0 00 f4 4b f5 34 ef be e0 00 e0 00 f5 6a e0 00
#163
Stu - Millions, literally......
..........Of nano-pence
Piece of paper is no good, I want a file lol
Neil.
PS PJay - i got descpro and datalog, and the bloody installer keeps crashing!!!
..........Of nano-pence
Piece of paper is no good, I want a file lol
Neil.
PS PJay - i got descpro and datalog, and the bloody installer keeps crashing!!!
#165
In simple terms, Ecus are just boxes with numbers stored in them !!
The L6 has 8192 numbers to store program and maps (bytes)
The L8 has 16384 bytes
The P8 has 32768 bytes
Not all are used in the chip but very nearly.
My own ecu has 512000 ROM bytes, 256000 RAM bytes and
1024000 flash memory bytes (1 megabyte) not to mention 2 x 32 bit processors.
The L6 has 8192 numbers to store program and maps (bytes)
The L8 has 16384 bytes
The P8 has 32768 bytes
Not all are used in the chip but very nearly.
My own ecu has 512000 ROM bytes, 256000 RAM bytes and
1024000 flash memory bytes (1 megabyte) not to mention 2 x 32 bit processors.
#167
PassionFords Creator
iTrader: (12)
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 28,824
Likes: 95
From: Blackpool, UK Destination: Rev limiter
Neil S,
Stu - Millions, literally......
..........Of nano-pence
Piece of paper is no good, I want a file lol
Stu - Millions, literally......
..........Of nano-pence
Piece of paper is no good, I want a file lol
I thought id found a new money spinner then
BRB... got a forest to cancel
#169
What exactly do you want to know about mapping Melv?
Im happy to help but dont wanna start harping on about some bollox and send you to sleep cos you didnt wanna know it :'(
I can even do pictures.. just ask me an actual question.
EG:
What does a chip look like when you extrtact it from the eprom onto the pc?
How do you know what part of that load of garbage is a map?
What equiptment do ya use for monitoring fuel?
Etc Etc Etc..
Im happy to help but dont wanna start harping on about some bollox and send you to sleep cos you didnt wanna know it :'(
I can even do pictures.. just ask me an actual question.
EG:
What does a chip look like when you extrtact it from the eprom onto the pc?
How do you know what part of that load of garbage is a map?
What equiptment do ya use for monitoring fuel?
Etc Etc Etc..
Hows about the fuel / ign map sizes and locations for eeciv ofab and ofac
that would be a good place to start
#171
Pectel are gonna get it! Shonky software - you cant tell it where you would like it installed so it baulks when u run the installer and it cant find its path
Anyway, off to the girlfs in a bit - will check back tomorrow morning
Neil
#173
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Mike Gurney,
Hows about the fuel / ign map sizes and locations for eeciv ofab and ofac
that would be a good place to start
Hows about the fuel / ign map sizes and locations for eeciv ofab and ofac
that would be a good place to start
Still struggling to find em mate?
You HAVE to invest in an emulator.. you simply CANNOT find em without one. No Way. Get the wonga out Mike
#176
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popeye,
pmsl,got to give him top marks for trying stu
hes only been asking since we came up
pmsl,got to give him top marks for trying stu
hes only been asking since we came up
#177
I actually met the guy who wrote the Fiesta RST EEC4 software for Ford
some years ago.
He described EEC4 like this .....
The americans designed the electronics and FOOKED it up.
The english modified it to make it work on european cars because it was shite.
The americans wrote the software and gave it more bugs than windows....
The english modified the software and by pure chance it worked (if you can call it that)
some years ago.
He described EEC4 like this .....
The americans designed the electronics and FOOKED it up.
The english modified it to make it work on european cars because it was shite.
The americans wrote the software and gave it more bugs than windows....
The english modified the software and by pure chance it worked (if you can call it that)
#178
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SECS,
He described EEC4 like this .....
The americans designed the electronics and FOOKED it up.
The english modified it to make it work on european cars because it was shite.
The americans wrote the software and gave it more bugs than windows....
The english modified the software and by pure chance it worked (if you can call it that)
He described EEC4 like this .....
The americans designed the electronics and FOOKED it up.
The english modified it to make it work on european cars because it was shite.
The americans wrote the software and gave it more bugs than windows....
The english modified the software and by pure chance it worked (if you can call it that)
#179
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Me and Tony call EEC "The Woman"
Cos it has unexplainable mood swings...
ESPECIALLY Anti and Cosy the EEC IV YB systems when they get fooking stuck in limp home mode cos the EGR valve is faulty...
"Please fix this before proceeding with test" FOOK that annoys me!!
Cos it has unexplainable mood swings...
ESPECIALLY Anti and Cosy the EEC IV YB systems when they get fooking stuck in limp home mode cos the EGR valve is faulty...
"Please fix this before proceeding with test" FOOK that annoys me!!
#182
I've actually had a result with the EECIV stuff (and EECV focus RS)
I've found a guy who used to map them for ford - hoping to get all the stuff to allow me to reflash them and map them live looks like the map sensor can be swapped for a 3bar too
failing that - the cost of an emulator - I can get a good pectel ecu for that sort of money
so watch this space cos as soon as my injury claim comes through i'm gonna buy something aftermarket - been waiting 9 months now !!!
Simon said
"I actually met the guy who wrote the Fiesta RST EEC4 software for Ford
some years ago. "
do you still know him ?
I've found a guy who used to map them for ford - hoping to get all the stuff to allow me to reflash them and map them live looks like the map sensor can be swapped for a 3bar too
failing that - the cost of an emulator - I can get a good pectel ecu for that sort of money
so watch this space cos as soon as my injury claim comes through i'm gonna buy something aftermarket - been waiting 9 months now !!!
Simon said
"I actually met the guy who wrote the Fiesta RST EEC4 software for Ford
some years ago. "
do you still know him ?
#183
top thread guys!! great input from Stu - just what these forums should be for
I haven't asked much, as I haven't had time to read it all yet, and don't want to look a twat by not reading first..
I haven't asked much, as I haven't had time to read it all yet, and don't want to look a twat by not reading first..
#185
mentioned briefly how to find maps in the jungle of hex code by using 2d mapping - but how to root out the maps just by looking at the hex data table?
How to tell where the start and finish is?
presumably we are looking for consecutive values that don't change by much, one to the next?
How to tell where the start and finish is?
presumably we are looking for consecutive values that don't change by much, one to the next?
#186
erm yeah... what he ^^ said!!
so im gathering from the stuff above that EECIV is abit shonky then!
at least I wont have a manky metering unit cluttering up the engine bay I suppose.
so im gathering from the stuff above that EECIV is abit shonky then!
at least I wont have a manky metering unit cluttering up the engine bay I suppose.
#187
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richm,
mentioned briefly how to find maps in the jungle of hex code by using 2d mapping - but how to root out the maps just by looking at the hex data table?
How to tell where the start and finish is?
presumably we are looking for consecutive values that don't change by much, one to the next?
mentioned briefly how to find maps in the jungle of hex code by using 2d mapping - but how to root out the maps just by looking at the hex data table?
How to tell where the start and finish is?
presumably we are looking for consecutive values that don't change by much, one to the next?
In a run of pure hex like that, its just MUCH MUCH easier to see with the emulator active as it will highlight a whole area whilst you rev it.. you make notes on highest and lowest achieved addresses and work from there
#191
erm... well
cars fitted with a lambda sensor as standard.
how much of a bearing and how does the lambda effect the fueling?
i.e. is it just for safety (extremes) or is it a function to enable efficient running? like a closed loop system
cars fitted with a lambda sensor as standard.
how much of a bearing and how does the lambda effect the fueling?
i.e. is it just for safety (extremes) or is it a function to enable efficient running? like a closed loop system
#192
closed loop lambda control (narrow)only works on light throttle actions not when flat out in most cases but more cars are being fitted with wideband sensors as standard, but i dont know how much closed loop control they have
#193
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99% of cars fitted with closed loop fuel term control, utilize it only under part load conditions, and also only with a hot engine.
This is simply because if the sensor drifted from cal, under WOT conditions it would cause an expansive meltdown.
WOT is not seen as an emissions issue as most engines spend a VERY small percentage of their life there.
Basically.. as Gareth said
This is simply because if the sensor drifted from cal, under WOT conditions it would cause an expansive meltdown.
WOT is not seen as an emissions issue as most engines spend a VERY small percentage of their life there.
Basically.. as Gareth said
#194
thanks gareth and stu!
so the old - you can mess around changing air filters, exhausts throttle bodies etc and it will be ok as its fuel injection and has a lambda as is often put about - is erm pretty much crap?
ah right so thats another one.... ok thats live mapping detailed but on a chip for example... where you dont get the feedback of what the car is doing etc... is it just from experience that you could make assumptions on what to do with the map?
so the old - you can mess around changing air filters, exhausts throttle bodies etc and it will be ok as its fuel injection and has a lambda as is often put about - is erm pretty much crap?
ah right so thats another one.... ok thats live mapping detailed but on a chip for example... where you dont get the feedback of what the car is doing etc... is it just from experience that you could make assumptions on what to do with the map?
#195
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M Brian,
ah right so thats another one.... ok thats live mapping detailed but on a chip for example... where you dont get the feedback of what the car is doing etc... is it just from experience that you could make assumptions on what to do with the map?
ah right so thats another one.... ok thats live mapping detailed but on a chip for example... where you dont get the feedback of what the car is doing etc... is it just from experience that you could make assumptions on what to do with the map?
#196
so the old - you can mess around changing air filters, exhausts throttle bodies etc and it will be ok as its fuel injection and has a lambda as is often put about - is erm pretty much crap?
#198
supposing I ask for a chip suitable for a mildly modified 105 zetec.
its got the 130 throttle body, no cat and an air filter.
if you were to.. for example live map the car then you coudl of course see what was going on with it and adjust fueling ignition to suit.
but if you were to produce a chip for it, would you make certain assumptions about things such as increased airflow through the engine or would you just have to supply a standard generic chip that was developed from a similar vehicle that was livemapped and studied?
another for example is you supplied a base map chip to a guy with a zetecturbo'd frst - so he coudl run it in and drive it up for a proper mapping session.... therefore you must of made assumptions based on previous experience and things in order to produce a safe chip... but if the aim was more power and better running from a chip - then the assumptions have to be LESS safe? so how would you go about deriving this?
I dont seem to be very clear with my questions on this post at all sorry!
its got the 130 throttle body, no cat and an air filter.
if you were to.. for example live map the car then you coudl of course see what was going on with it and adjust fueling ignition to suit.
but if you were to produce a chip for it, would you make certain assumptions about things such as increased airflow through the engine or would you just have to supply a standard generic chip that was developed from a similar vehicle that was livemapped and studied?
another for example is you supplied a base map chip to a guy with a zetecturbo'd frst - so he coudl run it in and drive it up for a proper mapping session.... therefore you must of made assumptions based on previous experience and things in order to produce a safe chip... but if the aim was more power and better running from a chip - then the assumptions have to be LESS safe? so how would you go about deriving this?
I dont seem to be very clear with my questions on this post at all sorry!
#199
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Ahh, gotcha.
Yes mate youve pretty much answered your own questions.
Mapping from base, which is what i call it, is all a matter of "Educated guesswork"
Remember that we are constantly modding stuff for our Modem Dealer Network and they obviously give us feedback until the files are perfected..
Add that to the number of cars we live map and we are pretty well educated to be making the guess
There is "NO" substitute for doing it live though...
Yes mate youve pretty much answered your own questions.
Mapping from base, which is what i call it, is all a matter of "Educated guesswork"
Remember that we are constantly modding stuff for our Modem Dealer Network and they obviously give us feedback until the files are perfected..
Add that to the number of cars we live map and we are pretty well educated to be making the guess
There is "NO" substitute for doing it live though...