Live mapping tutorial by Stu.... Discussion Required
04-04-2005, 08:17 AM
#361
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In case you hadn't realised ive only just read this post (well finished at 2am this morning actually) so have woken up with some queries...
Apologies for all who do know what they are talking about, wondering what the hell am i blithering on about....we have to start somewhere
I'll be back with some questions....just got to re-read this post
Apologies for all who do know what they are talking about, wondering what the hell am i blithering on about....we have to start somewhere
I'll be back with some questions....just got to re-read this post
10-04-2005, 05:54 PM
#362
Testing the future
Quote:
2. The map itself, does the amount of data equal how accurate the map can be?
For example, if a Map has a Load table that has X number of references, does another Ecu with with twice as many mean the map can be any better???
Or is it that another Ecu which has more Parameters in total provide a better map?
Yes, generally speaking the more load and rpm sites available, the smoother and more accurately the engine can be mapped.
so often it's not the map size that is so important as many conditions can be well handled by interpolated points. what is good is to have the option of redefining the load or speed values so that if you have a non linera area of the map you can have several sites close together, but then get away with using less over another area of the map where it is linear.
11-04-2005, 07:57 AM
#365
Dont forget though that tuning a load or speed area has an effect on the sites either side of tune.
Example.
YB's tend to det badly at 5500rpm.
Using an ecu with sites at 4000 5000 6000 & 7000 you would have to tune the spark out of the 5000 and 6000 sites to get a good solid figure at 5500.
Unfortunately, this wil have had a similar negative effect on speeds between 4-4999 and 6-6999 due to this same interpolation.
Having a load site at the correct place would fix this small but very relevant issue.
Example.
YB's tend to det badly at 5500rpm.
Using an ecu with sites at 4000 5000 6000 & 7000 you would have to tune the spark out of the 5000 and 6000 sites to get a good solid figure at 5500.
Unfortunately, this wil have had a similar negative effect on speeds between 4-4999 and 6-6999 due to this same interpolation.
Having a load site at the correct place would fix this small but very relevant issue.
28-04-2005, 03:35 PM
#372
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ok stu,
I really dont know anything about mapping, and dont pretend to either.
There really wasnt any point to my question, just to seek informtion that might be useful to me when It does come to my mapping. Not that it will really help me.
I really dont know anything about mapping, and dont pretend to either.
There really wasnt any point to my question, just to seek informtion that might be useful to me when It does come to my mapping. Not that it will really help me.
28-04-2005, 03:41 PM
#373
No problem pal, there are a lot of speed related maps within the ecu and all are set to read differently hence me asking which you were interested in.
The fuel usually goes up in 500 rpm steps but 1000 in some cases.
The ignition has more points than the fuel and from memory the boost has the same amount as the fuel. Its never as cut and dried as you think i guess
I can take some shots if you like to clarify how the weber maps work
The fuel usually goes up in 500 rpm steps but 1000 in some cases.
The ignition has more points than the fuel and from memory the boost has the same amount as the fuel. Its never as cut and dried as you think i guess
I can take some shots if you like to clarify how the weber maps work
30-04-2005, 08:56 AM
#375
A Level 8 fuel map.
A level 8 spark map.
(Up to 1800rpm left off as screen too wide)
A level 8 boost pressure air temperature map.
(Up to 1800rpm left off as screen too wide)
Hope that helps answer your question and maybe raise some more to keep this topic alive
A level 8 spark map.
(Up to 1800rpm left off as screen too wide)
A level 8 boost pressure air temperature map.
(Up to 1800rpm left off as screen too wide)
Hope that helps answer your question and maybe raise some more to keep this topic alive
30-04-2005, 09:25 AM
#379
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Stu, Your are so right.
Had some one recently by an ecu off me. Said he could map no problem.
Had about 10-12 phone calls as he did not know what AFR he needed at idle.
Also, he reckons he could tell AFR levels by looking at the smoke coming out
of the exhaust.
I told him idealy around lambda 1.00 he said is that rich or lean
Had some one recently by an ecu off me. Said he could map no problem.
Had about 10-12 phone calls as he did not know what AFR he needed at idle.
Also, he reckons he could tell AFR levels by looking at the smoke coming out
of the exhaust.
I told him idealy around lambda 1.00 he said is that rich or lean
30-04-2005, 09:47 AM
#382
Originally Posted by SECS
Stu, Your are so right.
Had some one recently by an ecu off me. Said he could map no problem.
Had about 10-12 phone calls as he did not know what AFR he needed at idle.
Also, he reckons he could tell AFR levels by looking at the smoke coming out
of the exhaust.
I told him idealy around lambda 1.00 he said is that rich or lean
Had some one recently by an ecu off me. Said he could map no problem.
Had about 10-12 phone calls as he did not know what AFR he needed at idle.
Also, he reckons he could tell AFR levels by looking at the smoke coming out
of the exhaust.
I told him idealy around lambda 1.00 he said is that rich or lean
30-04-2005, 09:49 AM
#383
Originally Posted by GARETH T
Stu is that a standard boost map?
Due to the fact the axis are wrong in the software interpretation i wont go into details as it would simply serve to complicate issues... so you will just have to live with "Kind of..."
This map is affected by Air temperature..
Only relevant to those of you with working amal valves though
30-04-2005, 10:00 AM
#384
Professional Waffler
Originally Posted by Stu @ M Developments
Originally Posted by SECS
Stu, Your are so right.
Had some one recently by an ecu off me. Said he could map no problem.
Had about 10-12 phone calls as he did not know what AFR he needed at idle.
Also, he reckons he could tell AFR levels by looking at the smoke coming out
of the exhaust.
I told him idealy around lambda 1.00 he said is that rich or lean
Had some one recently by an ecu off me. Said he could map no problem.
Had about 10-12 phone calls as he did not know what AFR he needed at idle.
Also, he reckons he could tell AFR levels by looking at the smoke coming out
of the exhaust.
I told him idealy around lambda 1.00 he said is that rich or lean
well start another topic and tell them then
05-05-2005, 06:24 PM
#388
Level 6 was 2wd Sapphire. Level 8 was 4wd sapphire. The Escorts got P8 and later a Ford system thats totally different altogether.
The level 8 has double the memory address space of level 6 and has better throttle mapping capability as well as other very usefull functionality.
The level 8 has double the memory address space of level 6 and has better throttle mapping capability as well as other very usefull functionality.
22-05-2005, 08:17 AM
#393
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here's a quick question then to keep it going....
if i wanted a live map for my p8 escos with pectel board, is the pectel board removed and just a new eprom installed (like factory setup) which has the live mapped data and stuff, or can the live map be put on the eprom on the pectel board? its a issue 2 board btw...
if i wanted a live map for my p8 escos with pectel board, is the pectel board removed and just a new eprom installed (like factory setup) which has the live mapped data and stuff, or can the live map be put on the eprom on the pectel board? its a issue 2 board btw...
22-05-2005, 11:46 AM
#394
Originally Posted by Dave Henshall
here's a quick question then to keep it going....
if i wanted a live map for my p8 escos with pectel board, is the pectel board removed and just a new eprom installed (like factory setup) which has the live mapped data and stuff, or can the live map be put on the eprom on the pectel board? its a issue 2 board btw...
if i wanted a live map for my p8 escos with pectel board, is the pectel board removed and just a new eprom installed (like factory setup) which has the live mapped data and stuff, or can the live map be put on the eprom on the pectel board? its a issue 2 board btw...
Its not possible to my knowledge to live map P8 with Pectel hardware installed in the ecu due to the way Pectel encryption works. We would use the factory hardware only and live map it that way, giving you your Pectel hardware back to sell.
Hope this helps.
22-05-2005, 12:13 PM
#396
There are some benefits to Pectel software dont forget folks.
What most dont realise, is back in the 80's Pectel reverse engineered the software that runs the engine and totally rewrote it to suit their own plans, including the fantastic Pectel serial comms output and datalogger as well as water injection drive. Like it or loathe it, the software itself is great, if not a little limited with stuff i wish to do nowadays
They then wrote a front end for it called "IEMS" so that their customers could directly access the maps and map it, and they made it very user friendly indeed, anyone with even an tiny amount of engine knowledge could understand what the maps did and adjust them. In the 80s, this was a serious breakthrough and gave them a real leap forward in the mapping stakes.
What they then did, as stage 1 of their protection plan for teh new idea is design a system that would scramble the finished map, so it wouldnt run a car at all. So when you had done your map, you saved it to a binary form for teh Eprom, but it saved it as a kind of jigsaw, so when you plugged the chip into the ECU, no go, it wouldnt run
Stage 2 was to design the ecu hardware that then decoded the software again into a format the ecu could understand. This is now known as the "Pectel Board"
When the Pectel software was run "Through" the Pectel hardware, it would run just fine.
Therefore ensuring, that even if some gimp came along with a Eprom copier, they couldnt benefit from al Pectels hardwork without buying a Pectel board as well, which is where the profit was, thus protecting Pectels investment and securing their future somewhat. Very clever indeed, and a system we have all pretty much adopted now throughout the industry.
Hope that helps people to understand the mysterious "Pectel Board"
What most dont realise, is back in the 80's Pectel reverse engineered the software that runs the engine and totally rewrote it to suit their own plans, including the fantastic Pectel serial comms output and datalogger as well as water injection drive. Like it or loathe it, the software itself is great, if not a little limited with stuff i wish to do nowadays
They then wrote a front end for it called "IEMS" so that their customers could directly access the maps and map it, and they made it very user friendly indeed, anyone with even an tiny amount of engine knowledge could understand what the maps did and adjust them. In the 80s, this was a serious breakthrough and gave them a real leap forward in the mapping stakes.
What they then did, as stage 1 of their protection plan for teh new idea is design a system that would scramble the finished map, so it wouldnt run a car at all. So when you had done your map, you saved it to a binary form for teh Eprom, but it saved it as a kind of jigsaw, so when you plugged the chip into the ECU, no go, it wouldnt run
Stage 2 was to design the ecu hardware that then decoded the software again into a format the ecu could understand. This is now known as the "Pectel Board"
When the Pectel software was run "Through" the Pectel hardware, it would run just fine.
Therefore ensuring, that even if some gimp came along with a Eprom copier, they couldnt benefit from al Pectels hardwork without buying a Pectel board as well, which is where the profit was, thus protecting Pectels investment and securing their future somewhat. Very clever indeed, and a system we have all pretty much adopted now throughout the industry.
Hope that helps people to understand the mysterious "Pectel Board"
22-05-2005, 02:52 PM
#397
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cheers stu,so can the serial comms be enabled on a normal chip for use with the new secs monitor, or is that only for the rectel boards..?
