NATH-RSZT

Hi guys i had a bad day saturday i drove 3-1/2 hours to get to santa pod . I got my car lined up in the cue at 10.30 am I run a flat 15 on my first run ever and it took 3 attemps to get in 3rd so i reckon with a decent set of tyres and a few attemps i could get a late 13 (maybe). Well thought i go straight round to have another go and all was well till 2nd gear. The box just blew into pieces onto the track and appart from holding everyone up for an hour or so I was carless for the whole day. Absolute gutted Cant believe the state of the box its almost an achievement. Its has broke almost completely in half .

Not having a great deal of spare pennys at the mo i'm just gunna replace the box for another std one. I have a 2.0l zetec turbo engine in a mk6 and i have a low mileage turbo diesel engine sat in the workshop. I know the box will fit and have heard diesel box's are stronger. Just wandering if it will cope with the power . I'd say my engine is around 200-220 ponies but with massive torque.

mikee_rs

diesel boxes are no stronger! this has to be the oldest myth going

Lambchop

iTrader: (1)

diesel is longer ratio and no lsd either...

NATH-RSZT

I know there is no lsd in them but i have the box at my unit and thought i may just stick it in. I also have a s2 gearbox but the mounting points are different could i get somewere to put the lsd in a mk5/6 box. are the ib5 or mtx box's any good

Ginge !

why not fit a MTX75 gearbox ???

theres loads in breakers off mondeos and the rest of the fittings for a MK5/6 aint gonna be hard to find im sure ?

NATH-RSZT

does the mtx box only come from mondeo'sand whats sort of mondeos . is it a good box to use then. how can i tell if its an mtx box , lol

rst in breaking

iTrader: (2)

get an mtx from a mk5 escort mate, thats what i was told to fit

Ginge !

aint many MK5's with a MTX box though, though starter motor location may be the reason, been a while since i looked at one

Sexy-RS

Pic's or stfu

rst in breaking

iTrader: (2)

as far as i kno ginge the mondeo starter is at the rear

cossie604

iTrader: (2)

Aint the likes of the mkv xr3i got a mtx??

JonnyBravo

Atleast it was just a gearbox ! you should see what I did to our engine LOL

12.8 with a suspected fooked head gasket wasn't too bad though, shame it wasn't just the head gasket though

biglee

pics.....or






















STFU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

JonnyBravo

First run this happened :



After stripping it down when we got back after the iffy 2nd run we found this







This is the cylinder that the plug failed in on run 1 :

XRT_si

iTrader: (2)

Johnny - Bad news mate. What pistons are they btw? What was the best time as mate there today said he saw a quick 20XE Nova run a 12? Guessed it was you.

JonnyBravo

They are the earlier forged Mahle xe pistons, typically we have used them since we smashed a set of cast ones, although that was caused by ourselves and not a actual mid run fault.

I only ran a 12.8 @ 114 with it not sounding right at all, shame tbh but we had only thrown the engine together on friday night, drove it round my mates units 20 times and loaded it onto a trailer for todays show LOL we said it was going too well on saturday !

The complete rebuild only cost Ł32 though and was a new set of big end bearings, everything else was from the engine in the first place ha

XRT_si

iTrader: (2)

Not too bad then, not giving up on it just yet then?
Have you ever seen forged XE or LET pistons with only 2 valve cut outs before i.e. Only on one side?

JonnyBravo

It will be back out to play in a week or so mate, we already had a complete running engine ready for it but thought we'd throw (literally) this one together and pray it held on for the day.

I'd say its a record considering it only covered 1/2 mile LOL

I sort of remember hearing about a similar set before but in all honestly all the engines I've recently stripped have had 4 cutouts, except ones that the cambelt has gone off and they have 8 cutouts per piston

dojj

iTrader: (3)

you should be able to find the mtx75 box in a few cars, not just the mondeo's

it's the same as the mt75 box internally, it's just sideways fitted for fwd applications so it's got a diff nailed to the side of it, but if it's good for 350 ponies in an escos then i can't see your 220 maknig one strugle

NATH-RSZT

well heres the pics of the box. if you look close the cracks are all the way round look how thick the bit on the top of the box is and its clean in half. the car dont push back wards either as it grinds then jams . cant wait to take the box off. lol

Rick

the pistons in the pic aren't forged, they're cast - u can tell by the colour.

Dangerous Malcolm..

I may be wrong but the Escorts and Mondys with the MTX75 have a lift up reverse. The IB5's don't.

DangerousBryan

mtx 75 was in all mondeos and all escort turbo diesels

bryan

XRT_si

iTrader: (2)

I thought you could tell forged pistons by the fact they have those rings/pattern showing they were machined?

eliters1

mtx75 also found in mk5 6 rs 2000 modndeo td,and 130 xr3i they all have lift up reverse and are tough,i abused a rs2000 one for years and never le go!!!

JonnyBravo

Rick, according to Mahle they ARE forged pistons, I have already had quite a discussion with someone about this.

Mahles forged pistons are marked with a p on the underside which these have, the same as the turbo let pistons have.

The cast pistons are not identical and have different markings

RickyLee53

Cast pistons are machine finished as well.

JonnyBravo

Sorry to hijack the thread !

This is a letter from Mahle themselves

In the inside of every MAHLE - Piston you can find a casting number. This number consists out of two numbers, then a letter and again two numbers. From the letter you can find out of what kind the piston is:

D... Duotherm piston
F... Squeeze-cast piston
KB... Ferrotherm piston
L... Solid skirt piston
P... Forged piston
V... Auto-/Hydrothermik piston/ Auto-/Hydrothermatik piston

For example: A piston with the casting number 96 P 26 would be a forged piston.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Kind Regards

Claudia Richter

MAHLE Aftermarket GmbH

What has actually broke in that gearbox then ? I've seen a few vauxhall boxes do that when the gearbox mount has either been loose or broken

pani_k

iTrader: (1)

mtx75 box also found in focus 1.8 diesel and 2.0 focus petrol

AlexF

Your right - you HAVE a LOT of torque!!

NATH-RSZT

what makes you say that

Thanks guys gunna go for an mtx 75 box

apparently i need ,box , d shafts , hubs , linkage ,knob as its all different cos of lift up reversve but if its a stronger box then its worth it. gunna get it done for rsoc.

Tim

iTrader: (1)

100% correctamundo

Rick

That's interesting. The machining rings did puzzle me - but why the dull colour? They mustn't be machined in the same way as say a cosworth racing forged piston - and probably not as strong? Do they rattle/expand like a forged racing piston? Perhaps the forging isn't as dense?

JonnyBravo

The dull colour might have something to do with the fact they have done 180k lol I cleaned them up before we fitted them but they are dont look mint for long.

I'll admit compared to lets say a set of accralite flat tops they do look different although the shape is identical.

I'm only going off what that email says, I'm no engineer

Rick

You should still be able to see some shine IMO - my used forged were still very polished in places. We need a metallurgist for this one. Have you got a pic of the underneath of them?

JonnyBravo

Here you go :



You can see the coding 86p which by Mahles info means its forged ?

Rick

it's hard to tell from the pic, but the edges look too rounded for traditional forged pistons - can u see any rough casting marks/slag? Forged have very defined lines from the tooling process.

JonnyBravo

I'll get a pic of one of the cast pistons for a comparison but no there is no rough marks anywhere on that one

NATH-RSZT

Just look at the state of the box. my clutch was soaked in oil so dug out the spray gun full of petrol and rinsed it off. hope it dont slip.

brizie

kin ell done a proper job on that one