Chip

iTrader: (3)

Sounds like quite an interesting discovery potentially in terms of why teenagers are so "Emo"

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/afp/2008022...3c8ed92_1.html


Any sort of physically measurable difference like that is always fascinating IMHO, just goes to show how different we all are as time progresses.

dojj

iTrader: (3)

too things spring imeediatly to mind

the first being puberty

the second being hormones

then again, you could always say that they were just retarded in the first place which is why their brains were funny from all the sugar they were eating and all the telly they were watching

neilm

and here's me thinking they were just mardy cocks that needed a good slap.....

Science has an excuse for everthing these days.....

Chip

iTrader: (3)

LMAO

Seriously though, Its very easy, due to the "blackbox" nature of how we perceive the inside of each other's heads, to oversimplify things like you are doing there, I imagine you have a similar view to people with mental illnesses in general to a certain extent?

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Very interesting, and i reckon the ability to have adult discussions in a non one on one environment has led to such problems.

That and our modern chemical rich diets.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Im of the opinion that the number of chemicals that we all ingest daily (I mean in food more than actual drugs, but obviously that compounds the problem) is making a huge difference to the way our brains develop, I consider myself quite lucky to have been of the last generation to have had proper home cooked meals etc as a regular occurance, it seems to be a thing of the past in most households these days.

dojj

iTrader: (3)

i think it's more to do with peole wanted to pidgeon hole peole into groups to explain away their behaviour
how many people now "have" adhd compared to 50 years ago?

and they don't seem to have finished their studies yet so in the future these simpletons may go back to being normals again once they have rebrained themselves as adults

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Me too mate, thankfully (or not?) ive first hand very grim experience of what MSG, E-numbers, Sugar and the like can do to a person.

Its NOT nice seeing Nicole after shes had some MSG by accident or even just some poxy sugar.

Sugar, to be honest, should be BANNED its that dangerous!!

And me on caffeine = your average young kid today. Aggressive.

What do they all love to drink? Coffee and fooking redbull.

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

So your saying kids today are no different to kids the same age in my era?

Bollox mate. Absolute fooking Bollox. They are far more aggressive and nonchalent and generally more emotional and yet at the same time less caring of others. It cant be because "They just are"

RichardPON

Nail. Head.

When we were at primary school, my brother used to be properly hyperactive some days, and not so on others........

After investigation, it was found to be largely down to the consumption of large quantities of fruit pastilles........ something to do with the additives.

There's proof enough in that Morgan Spurlock film, "Supersize Me" about what improvement diet can make to behavioural patterns.

That, and of course, the death of the family mealtime held at a table WITHOUT the TV on!

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Im going to sound like my nan used to here, but its a combination of factors, both physical and environmental IMHO.

Firstly there is the diet thing, foods these days (even things like an apple which on face value shouldnt have changed) are NOT the same foods that our bodies have spent millions of years evolving to process and build from.

But also there is the change in general culture that exposes kids to sex/violence at a point in time when their brain isnt actually mature enough to be able to handle the concepts properly and this then has a knock on effect to their personalities.

Ive always been a MASSIVE freedom of speech junky, but sadly even I have to admit that a 12 year old kid listening to Eminem is NOT a good idea!

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Agree 100%.

dojj

iTrader: (3)

think you've got the wrong end of the stick there stu

it's today's society that labels everyone with different things because that's the way society is, if everyone has a tag then you can box them up and put them away

the actual problems are more to do with kids growing up a lot faster and the innocence of youth being lost much earlier in a persons life

i had my "growing up" shock when i went to highschool, as before then i was the biggest fish in the littlest pond, it was such a massive shock to learn how the real world worked it took about 4 months to get used to it

that culture shock is lowering it's age limits as the years progress, hell, when i was in high school about 20 odd years ago we had 3 or 4 girls who were there with their babies being wheeled around in their pushchairs, i'd hate to think what it was like now

you can blame it on parents, you can blame it on shopkeepers, yu can blame it on docrots, or even the drug companies, but things have gone wrong in a big but subtle way and i don't think anyoen can actually pinpoint what's went wrong or when, there was then, there is now, and in themiddle there is the time in which it went wrong

i think it was terry pratchett who posed the questions "when does a painting become a painting?" with the anwser "when it's finished?"
there is a start when the brush stroke hit the canvas but when do they become the finsihed article? and that's the time that we need to be looking at

you won't change it back to the way it was but that won't stop people trying

the world has moved on and we are stil looking for soemone to blame rather than looking for solutions and ways and means to fix the problems

and yes, i was bought up good with strict parenting and i went off the rails big time when i was a youngster so i can speak from experience
and now i can se it happening with my kid, who gets really angry when he doens't get things his own way, he will lash out and he will clench his fists and his whole body goes tense and he shakes with rage and his face gets all twisted and the docrots at the clinic have said he's got anger manegement issues
he's 2 fucking years old ffs but will they tell us what to do with him? will they bollocks "just keep an eye on him"

oddly enough, if i tell him to do somethng he will do it, almost straight away, but anyone else he throws tantrums so i can look at this problem from both sides

but opefully not from the angle where i'm xraying his brains every few minutes to see if they are growing like they should

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

I Dont, i think you didnt explain yourself well when you said:

As the tests chip has linked to are fook all to do with pidgeon holing, andf all to do with finding out WHY they are different.

As for your child, i do sympathise, but i am also willing to bet you feed him stuff thats not good for him, like juices and stuff... If so, get him off them NOW. And see how he is in a month is my advice, as a NON medical expert of course.

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

It certainly isnt helping that a large percentage of parents are lowlife scum who would rather get pissed than educate their kids. I agree.

dojj

iTrader: (3)

i think other factors have to be considered along side this pon

i don't have space in my house for a dinning table, there wasn't space at my folks for a dinning table, so the table in front of the telly was where we used to eat

when junior is naughty while he's eating the telly is the first thing that i switch off and it's generally the rms who complains more than junior does but if he's misbehaving when i'm around then he gets put in the naughty chair until i have finished what i'm doing, be that watching an episode of the simpsons or posting on here or eating dinner or whatever i may be doing at the time

he knows what he's done wrong and no amount of crying or sad eyes will lessen the punishement of sitting in the corner

and even if someone else offers to console him he won't get off that chair until i have said it's ok for him to do so, normally by going over and giving him a cuddle whereupon everything is alright again because he says "orry"

but he also knows that saying "orry" as soon as he's done somethign which means he's going on the chair doesn't make it right so i'm teaching him that when he's done wrong, jsut words won't make up for it

lots of you may slate me for the way i admonish him but it works for me and it works for him, but no on else can make him behave so does that mean that no one else has the ability to control him or does it just mean that 'm the only one he listens to and sod the rest of the world?

and if he's lke this now what will he be like when he goes to school? he already bullies the kids at playgroup when my dad takes him but my dad just says it's kids being kids

he's just turned 2 and when he's with me he's as well behaved as any kid could be, but whe i'm not about he's suddenly unleashed and the little monster comes out, and that can't be put down to diet only

or can it?

discuss

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Sorry mate, i did go overboard with that reply, and i agree, theres too much time spent on Tv/computers/games etc, hell, even i spend far too much time on the damn things and its affected my own relationship before now.

I go into town most friday/saturday nights and see literally dozens of 14ish yr olds in town drinking beer. Its fooking pathetic now.

dojj

iTrader: (3)

the only thing other than indian food that he gets is oranges from tesco, ribena and white breded toast, and, at the weekends a bottle of fruit shoot, everything else is cooked by the mrs

occasionally we will have burgers and beans and stuff and even the occasional hotdog but it's always the same sort of food

so unless its one o the indian hearbs or spices that's getting him this way we don't know

the other other thing he has is milk, a bottle in the morning when he gets up and a bottle at night as he nods off

as for my original comments about pidgen holing peole, i think it's more to do with finding new names for afflictions that have always been, but with the prevalance of general younger thugishness nowadays it's easier to say "that's why little jhonny is behaving that way" as opposed to finding out what's caused the change in the first place

you also have to factor in that a lot of kids nowadays are bringing up kids themselves, so if you re bringing a child into the world when you are barely mid teens yourself, you would have had no life experience in growing up to be an adult before having this huge responsibility thrust upon you (and when i say "you" i mean the general population of younger mums and dads not you in partiular even though i nkow you've got a daughter who may fall into the general catagory i've lumped everyone into)

peole who are barely old enough to look after themselves are now looking after their own kids so it's not great wonder that things don't look bright

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Easy for me to say this, as I dont have kids of my own, and saying is easier than doing, but IMHO its pointless you trying to differentiate between a bad parent and an average parent, as these days they are increasingly becoming the same thing.

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Sadly i know nothing about Indian food, but if its anything at all like Chinese food then it will be laden heavily with MSG which causes everything you have suggested and more.

Quick google = http://www.msgmyth.com/symptoms.htm



Honestly mate, whilst i feel you dont believe us anyway, and thats your right which i dont question at all, but maybe humour us, what harm will it do him to eat only natural fruit and veg for one month and see what happens? 2years old and going all stiff with rage? Fook me, i dont wanna be your family when hes 12 mate!!


Have you even read chips link?


Agreed 100% mate. and i have to mate. 13 and 17.

It's Czech Mate

How do you avoid MSG.......i generally cook from scratch every night unless i'm away with work, whats it found in apart from the obvious like chinese etc and how do we know? Is it labelled clearly?

I've never looked so this may be a dumb question!

dojj

iTrader: (3)

i can't multi quote stu but this bit:

"What we found was there was actually a relationship between the size and the structure of the various parts of the brain and the way the kids behave in these interactions," said lead researcher Nicholas Allen of the University of Melbourne.
The parts of the brain which are involved in emotional responses were much more developed in the teens who got into fights with their parents, Allen said.
"Their emotions are developing much faster than are the parts of the brain that help them to manage those emotions," he said in a telephone interview.
"That's the kind of thing that hopefully catches up later on, but in between you've got this mismatch between the two."

seems to indicate that different parts of the growth are not meshing as they should which gives rise to the problems with their parents and so on and so forth, but this quote is what worries me the most:

"We're not sure if the environment is affecting the biology or the biology is affecting the environment. Probably the most likely truth is they both affect each other."

especially as they consture this to mean that if you are being brought up in a stressfull envoroment this will possibly shape your brain growth and emotinal levels for your future as well as the age you hit puberty (in girls the more stress the earlier the onset according to their finding)

so if you are getting all this when you are growing up, by the time you reach 10 things are already so far out of whack that the next 10 years where there is supposed to be readjustment back to everything being on an even kilter doesn't seem to happen

this WOULD back up what we see on the highstreet nowadays but it also seems to be leading to the conclusion that this is the way things are going to carry on as one generation struggles to contend with what's going on, it's already giving birth to the next

i'm pretty sure that there will be not o nly a social, but also an economical divide which will see comunities with the haves and the have nots becoming more and more clear cut

as for teh msg problems, first up for the link, i will talk it over with the wife and my folks to see if they can cut down on the homecooked stuff and see if he will start eating fruit and stuff mroe often to see if there is a change in his behaiour

at the moment it seems that he's got either/or adhd, add or the next one about hostile behaviour and the rage and hostility

Paul Eggleton

This isn't aimed at any reposnse on here but just adding my view.

We're really quite critical and probably a touch paranoid about how we bring up our daughter but I tell you what it doesn't half show for the better.

She's 26months old and has only ever drunk water and milk. She doesn't know what 'juice' even tastes like. She has home cooked food every day and will happily clear her plate of her veg.

All the other mums at the groups she goes to say how well behaved and inteligent she is. She knew her alphabet at 2 and can count to 30. This is purely because we have spent the time with her.

INfortunately compared to other folk these days I think we are in the severe minority. We have close friends who feed their kids with packet foods and sugar laden drinks and they are pure fucking evil sometimes! and making the comparison is so easy.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Dojj is restructing my brain, the "scan read" bit is definately growing bigger as we speak

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Fair play

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Sorry, i didnt mean it to appear that i think he is eating from a takeawy, i didnt for a minute, but lots of spices and sauces are riddled with deadly MSG!

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

It will say on the label very clearly. Gluten is another one, look that up!

RickyLee53

Shes 26 months old, wonder what she'll be like in 12 years.
Bear in mind, if you don't let her eat junk she'll do it at school or behind your back, if you don't let her drink in the park with her mates, she'll do it behind your back.

The only way you'll stop that is keeping her in, then she'll probably run off.

I watched a program about "Kid's that kill" the other day. They all had 1 thing in common, bar about 2.

The thing they had in common i won't mention, (as i'd been seen as something i generally aren't)
But, there's an increase in this, and an increase in the gun and knife culture.

Paul Eggleton

I know it sounds like she's wrapped in bubble wrap but that's not the case. She is allowed sweets, watches tv etc but it's all in moderation and is not a big part of her life because we are lucky enough to spend time with her ourselves.

When it comes to alchohol she'll be allowed to try it with us and not feel she has to down a bottle of vodka in the park with her mates

But that's 10 years away and a lot can change in those years! Believe me I am not that naive and I know what worked for me.

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Not necerarilly so.
When people are weaned off these drugs and kept off for a matter of time. When re introduced to them they can actually sense the prescense of this shite, almost like a poison.

What im saying is, if you can develop them on decent food, they will know that the feelings they get from certain foods that induce paranoia, anger, poor breathing etc are NOT NORMAL, as opposed to them being on it all their lives and thinking its normal to be angry and aggressive. I am of course speaking from experience as i now know when ive inadvertantly had caffiene as i can feel the anger building inside me. I used to think it was normal. All my life... 30+years, before i found teh answer was caffeine...

It's Czech Mate

After reading from Stu in the past I gave up caffiene and improved my life dramatically

Now i'm clear of it I can smell it a mile off in a cup of tea, if I so much as take a sip I can feel my arms start to tingle and I feel a bit sick etc

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Thats great news pal, i wasnt aware anyone had directly benefited from me posting that topic. Well pleased for you.
Bet you can sleep better too.

RichardPON

Funnily enough, after reading what Stu wrote about caffeine, I also gave it up.

I still have tea, but it is decaff, and I ocassionally drink coffee, but only as something I enjoy now and then (maybe once a month n Espresso/Cappucino form). More importantly, I gave up Coke completely (used to have two or three cans a week) - obviously additionally beneficial to lose the intake of that much sugar!

As a result, the stomach cramps and pain I used to get have virtually gone and I feel much better.

I have also taken up serious cooking over the past year, and changed my diet to suit.

No white bread -only granary/wholemeal, and no juices.

I eat loads of fruit and veg, and everything I cook with is either fresh, or fresh and then frozen (meat). All the meat now comes from a butcher (Whilee who uses this board supplies me and it is amazing compared to the supermarket!)

Plenty of water. I love chocolate with a passion, but swapped from bars of cadburys crap to 70% cocoa dark chocolate in small amounts. Sweets limited to very infrequent treats.

No ready meals/frozen pizza/microwave crap of any descrption ever, and no fast food at all.

Personally, never felt better. Mood swings have disappeared, and I don't go through peaks and troughs of the sugar rush/crash after eating. Got my family going the same way now too........

It's Czech Mate

The main thing is i'm not quite so 'fearless' ( read aggro! )and i can concentrate hard all day long like I used to be able to, plus my sleep is a lot better

Difference was noticeable after about three weeks, I had a chat to my doctor about it first and he said to go for it and I never looked back

I cant believe how evil caffeine is TBH

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Excellent news fellas, well pleased i helped someone else in my quest to appologise to all those whom id upset in my caffeine days.

CossieRich

iTrader: (1)

surely caffeine is only evil to those it affects?