welded vs quaife atb
30-12-2007, 04:18 PM
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welded vs quaife atb
Im in a bit of a dilemma at the moment as my standard diff is starting to give up the ghost and occasionally only spinning on one side.
I was thinking about trying the old welded diff thingy as most of my mates have this and they love them apart from when parallel parking and going round tight corners in the wet.....tendency to understeer somewhat.
But i also have a quaife ATB sitting in my shed from my old saff which i havent bothered putting on yet so was wondering if anyone on here has tried both and how different did they feel when getting a bit sideways.
Im sure you'll all say quaife but was just wondering !!!!
I was thinking about trying the old welded diff thingy as most of my mates have this and they love them apart from when parallel parking and going round tight corners in the wet.....tendency to understeer somewhat.
But i also have a quaife ATB sitting in my shed from my old saff which i havent bothered putting on yet so was wondering if anyone on here has tried both and how different did they feel when getting a bit sideways.
Im sure you'll all say quaife but was just wondering !!!!
30-12-2007, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by big_wig_074
Originally Posted by Cosworth Rallyesport
welded diff on the road,bloody stupid!!
30-12-2007, 05:20 PM
#7
i just drove from haverfordwest to cheltenham down the a40,through tiny villages and motorway sections alike,and only remembered the car i had was using a welder when i did a VERY tight turn into the drive way! 
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30-12-2007, 06:21 PM
#10
Originally Posted by Cosworth Rallyesport
welded diff on the road,bloody stupid!!
i drove our drift shitter every day for a year with a welder, the car handled much better than it did without it
the only time things went wrong was when i was fucking about and ran out of talent lol
you could puh it quite hard and the thing never stepped out once unless provoked
if you want to drift, an ATB is NO good
30-12-2007, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Dan@FastFord
Originally Posted by Cosworth Rallyesport
welded diff on the road,bloody stupid!!
i drove our drift shitter every day for a year with a welder, the car handled much better than it did without it
the only time things went wrong was when i was fucking about and ran out of luck lol
you could puh it quite hard and the thing never stepped out once unless provoked
if you want to drift, an cosworth generally is NO good
Any progress on the 3door dan?
30-12-2007, 06:26 PM
#13
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Originally Posted by big_wig_074
Originally Posted by Cosworth Rallyesport
welded diff on the road,bloody stupid!!
Loads of fun at the retail park or an airfield but for general road use you're just putting your car / health / health of others at risk for no reason, especially if you have an ATB sitting in the shed
And Fudge-packer ask Jon Hill about driving with a welded diff...... I am sure the word tree will come into his reply
30-12-2007, 06:33 PM
#15
Originally Posted by neilm
Originally Posted by big_wig_074
Originally Posted by Cosworth Rallyesport
welded diff on the road,bloody stupid!!
Loads of fun at the retail park or an airfield but for general road use you're just putting your car / health / health of others at risk for no reason, especially if you have an ATB sitting in the shed
And Fudge-packer ask Jon Hill about driving with a welded diff...... I am sure the word tree will come into his reply
30-12-2007, 06:33 PM
#16
Originally Posted by neilm
Originally Posted by big_wig_074
Originally Posted by Cosworth Rallyesport
welded diff on the road,bloody stupid!!
Loads of fun at the retail park or an airfield but for general road use you're just putting your car / health / health of others at risk for no reason, especially if you have an ATB sitting in the shed
And Fudge-packer ask Jon Hill about driving with a welded diff...... I am sure the word tree will come into his reply
he also spent a good 5 mins upside down in the footwell of our shitter while trying to take some snaps of me drifting, after his repeated screaming that he was going to be sick, i finally stopped
james-w
i had a spare half hour earlier and port matched (ish) the cast part of the inlet runners, and now just need to get the face skimmed where the dremmel slipped lol.
and then its just a case of waiting till i get my insurance payout so i can pay for it to be finished
not a great deal left to do, but its all the fidly shit that takes ages lol
30-12-2007, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Dan@FastFord
Originally Posted by neilm
Originally Posted by big_wig_074
Originally Posted by Cosworth Rallyesport
welded diff on the road,bloody stupid!!
Loads of fun at the retail park or an airfield but for general road use you're just putting your car / health / health of others at risk for no reason, especially if you have an ATB sitting in the shed
And Fudge-packer ask Jon Hill about driving with a welded diff...... I am sure the word tree will come into his reply
he also spent a good 5 mins upside down in the footwell of our shitter while trying to take some snaps of me drifting, after his repeated screaming that he was going to be sick, i finally stopped
james-w
i had a spare half hour earlier and port matched (ish) the cast part of the inlet runners, and now just need to get the face skimmed where the dremmel slipped lol.
and then its just a case of waiting till i get my insurance payout so i can pay for it to be finished
not a great deal left to do, but its all the fidly shit that takes ages lol
Look forward to seeing it finished though mate!
James
30-12-2007, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by big_wig_074
Originally Posted by neilm
Originally Posted by big_wig_074
Originally Posted by Cosworth Rallyesport
welded diff on the road,bloody stupid!!
Loads of fun at the retail park or an airfield but for general road use you're just putting your car / health / health of others at risk for no reason, especially if you have an ATB sitting in the shed
And Fudge-packer ask Jon Hill about driving with a welded diff...... I am sure the word tree will come into his reply
30-12-2007, 07:01 PM
#20
if thats sarcasm then i think youre missing the point,i wasnt driving like i stole it,just felt comfy at the speeds i was doing (whatever they were as speedo doesnt work lol!).im not claiming to be a great driver,nor even a very good one.just competent enough to turn left or right at the correct time so the car stays on the grey strip between the green bits.i have no delusions of rally driving.
30-12-2007, 07:24 PM
#22
why would you want to do this other than beacuse you cant afford a proper LSD ?
they can only make handling worse, totally compromising the way the car drives and handles.
we did this about 10 years ago to a mates SD1 rover V8 ( as the diff gave up) and the car came to a sad end, at low speeds the car was horrendous, at anything other than a straight line the car was awful, and lets face it, even with a shit LSD you dont even use the slipper in a straight line,
thats before we even get into lift steering issues
they can only make handling worse, totally compromising the way the car drives and handles.
we did this about 10 years ago to a mates SD1 rover V8 ( as the diff gave up) and the car came to a sad end, at low speeds the car was horrendous, at anything other than a straight line the car was awful, and lets face it, even with a shit LSD you dont even use the slipper in a straight line,
thats before we even get into lift steering issues
30-12-2007, 07:37 PM
#23
just finding my feet
markk ive drive a rover SD1 with no power steering,,, the car is just horrendous
Im about to weld the diff in the BM of mine, just cause its knocking when going sideways and can feel a issue with the diff anyway
i could get a M3 rear suspention wishbone and everything set up,,, for 500quid and fit that
or get my diff welded, if it feels shite sell it on and get a M3 rear end set up,,, for the same 500 quid
id like to just fit a LSD to the diff, but not possible and aint worth fitting a 1k diff to a car that aint got enough power to take the skin of custard
besides as most of my cars have been old shitters anyway i doubt i would notice if it drove shite
Im about to weld the diff in the BM of mine, just cause its knocking when going sideways and can feel a issue with the diff anyway
i could get a M3 rear suspention wishbone and everything set up,,, for 500quid and fit that
or get my diff welded, if it feels shite sell it on and get a M3 rear end set up,,, for the same 500 quid
id like to just fit a LSD to the diff, but not possible and aint worth fitting a 1k diff to a car that aint got enough power to take the skin of custard
besides as most of my cars have been old shitters anyway i doubt i would notice if it drove shite
30-12-2007, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Dan@FastFord
Originally Posted by Cosworth Rallyesport
welded diff on the road,bloody stupid!!
i drove our drift shitter every day for a year with a welder, the car handled much better than it did without it
the only time things went wrong was when i was fucking about and ran out of talent lol
you could puh it quite hard and the thing never stepped out once unless provoked
if you want to drift, an ATB is NO good
30-12-2007, 10:41 PM
#25
just finding my feet
mate a quaite ATB is a torque biasing diff
the way it works is it shifts the power from the one loosing traction to the other side thats got traction or something like that
basically a plated diff is what drifting cars should have not a atb
they work but not as well as a plated jobby due to the way they actually work
the way it works is it shifts the power from the one loosing traction to the other side thats got traction or something like that
basically a plated diff is what drifting cars should have not a atb
they work but not as well as a plated jobby due to the way they actually work
30-12-2007, 10:44 PM
#26
just finding my feet
Originally Posted by lammylama
Originally Posted by Dan@FastFord
Originally Posted by Cosworth Rallyesport
welded diff on the road,bloody stupid!!
i drove our drift shitter every day for a year with a welder, the car handled much better than it did without it
the only time things went wrong was when i was fucking about and ran out of talent lol
you could puh it quite hard and the thing never stepped out once unless provoked
if you want to drift, an ATB is NO good
i beg to differ there mate.....my ATB was pukka for drifting and another well known white 3 dr that is all over youtube is also running an ATB.
ps: i alsot think hes refering to drifting as driving in a line sideways looking out the sidewindow then changing direction and looking out the other side
the " well known white 3 door" does donuts round roundabouts the drives off in a straight line whilst the wheels get traction squrming a little
30-12-2007, 11:11 PM
#27
Originally Posted by Ginge !
markk ive drive a rover SD1 with no power steering,,, the car is just horrendous
Im about to weld the diff in the BM of mine, just cause its knocking when going sideways and can feel a issue with the diff anyway
i could get a M3 rear suspention wishbone and everything set up,,, for 500quid and fit that
or get my diff welded, if it feels shite sell it on and get a M3 rear end set up,,, for the same 500 quid
id like to just fit a LSD to the diff, but not possible and aint worth fitting a 1k diff to a car that aint got enough power to take the skin of custard
besides as most of my cars have been old shitters anyway i doubt i would notice if it drove shite
Im about to weld the diff in the BM of mine, just cause its knocking when going sideways and can feel a issue with the diff anyway
i could get a M3 rear suspention wishbone and everything set up,,, for 500quid and fit that
or get my diff welded, if it feels shite sell it on and get a M3 rear end set up,,, for the same 500 quid
id like to just fit a LSD to the diff, but not possible and aint worth fitting a 1k diff to a car that aint got enough power to take the skin of custard
besides as most of my cars have been old shitters anyway i doubt i would notice if it drove shite
30-12-2007, 11:16 PM
#29
just finding my feet
greg ill get that looked at when its welded up
i KNEW i should have fitted cheepo tyres with no traction in the wet and took a job that didnt require me to go round 3 roundabouts on the way to work
it might be for sale soon if your interested,,,,,, used never been used for handbrake turns
all new bushes/arms/steering rack/wheel bearings and on its 3rd set of tyres this year
i KNEW i should have fitted cheepo tyres with no traction in the wet and took a job that didnt require me to go round 3 roundabouts on the way to work
it might be for sale soon if your interested,,,,,, used never been used for handbrake turns
all new bushes/arms/steering rack/wheel bearings and on its 3rd set of tyres this year
30-12-2007, 11:17 PM
#30
just finding my feet
Originally Posted by big_wig_074
oh and unless im typing from the grave i just been out again for 3 odd hours in a welded diff car and have returned safely,even in wet greasy conditions.
i drove a 200sx with a welded diff and camber in the carpark was a issue at work
30-12-2007, 11:17 PM
#31
DEYTUKURJERBS
ROFL@Dangerous
Its MUCH more predictable, grippy, and less snappy than a fucking open diff, and you wont even realise you running one 99% of the time.
If it was dangerous then fuck knows how we drove 250miles today, fast (including numerous random burnouts and donuts ), in the wet, in a car with a welder, and didnt die or accidently get sideways once, including a number of 110mph+ times.
Greg TOTALLY left me (and all the other road users) for dead accross the bloody Brecon Beacons in the wet, in a ancient old non-sports car with crap old skinny tyres with 45psi in the rears.
Without the ass coming out once.
And no, he not an expert driver, he a normal driver like me or whatever.
Ive owned 6 or 7 cars with welded diffs now I think, fuck, just bought another today, and unless your an utter spacca who would get in the same trouble in an open diff car, you wont have a prob.
You wont even know most the time.
And thats experience of driving thousands of miles in lots of types of cars, all with welders, on the road.
No internet bullshit and rumour, no guessing from experiences with other stuff, just straight up fact.
I currently own 1 car with a welder, and another with a proper race spec plated diff.
And no way is the LSD safer.
Its fucking noisier, and it makes drifting easier than a welder, but it sure as fuck isnt safer or more predicable, and neither is more dangerous than an open one IMO.
Its MUCH more predictable, grippy, and less snappy than a fucking open diff, and you wont even realise you running one 99% of the time.
If it was dangerous then fuck knows how we drove 250miles today, fast (including numerous random burnouts and donuts
), in the wet, in a car with a welder, and didnt die or accidently get sideways once, including a number of 110mph+ times.Greg TOTALLY left me (and all the other road users) for dead accross the bloody Brecon Beacons in the wet, in a ancient old non-sports car with crap old skinny tyres with 45psi in the rears.
Without the ass coming out once.
And no, he not an expert driver, he a normal driver like me or whatever.
Ive owned 6 or 7 cars with welded diffs now I think, fuck, just bought another today, and unless your an utter spacca who would get in the same trouble in an open diff car, you wont have a prob.
You wont even know most the time.
And thats experience of driving thousands of miles in lots of types of cars, all with welders, on the road.
No internet bullshit and rumour, no guessing from experiences with other stuff, just straight up fact.
I currently own 1 car with a welder, and another with a proper race spec plated diff.
And no way is the LSD safer.
Its fucking noisier, and it makes drifting easier than a welder, but it sure as fuck isnt safer or more predicable, and neither is more dangerous than an open one IMO.
30-12-2007, 11:18 PM
#32
DEYTUKURJERBS
Originally Posted by Ginge !
what car you been using ?
Kids on mopeds and boyracers all had to bowdown to the new smoke machine
RS Daz off here saw us earlier in it actually
Ive only been home 10mins and im getting driving like a prick and doing donuts withdrawl symptoms
30-12-2007, 11:21 PM
#33
As is probably obvious from this post, it REALLY depends on what you want to use it for.
The rally boys (markk and TF) obvioulsy prefer a "proper" diff because ulimately its a faster route to safely get from a to b, but the fact is providing you drive knowing you have a welded diff, they really arent as bad as people make out, I wouldnt be bothered with one on a daily driver from a safety point of view, but I find the lowspeed characteristics annoying.
The rally boys (markk and TF) obvioulsy prefer a "proper" diff because ulimately its a faster route to safely get from a to b, but the fact is providing you drive knowing you have a welded diff, they really arent as bad as people make out, I wouldnt be bothered with one on a daily driver from a safety point of view, but I find the lowspeed characteristics annoying.
30-12-2007, 11:24 PM
#34
DEYTUKURJERBS
its bugger all to do with fastest a to b, tons of clubman rallycars run spools or welders, same as hot rods, same as most the thundersaloons, same as dick johnsons RS500s, most the Aussie V8 Supercars, Porsche 917 racers, Penske Porsche 956 endurance racers, etc etc etc.
you think Penske or Dick Johnson chose to run a spool over a plated diff as he couldnt afford a proper diff?
lot less "annoying lowspeed characteristics" in a welder than there is a proper plated race diff mate...
you think Penske or Dick Johnson chose to run a spool over a plated diff as he couldnt afford a proper diff?
Originally Posted by Chip-3Door
but I find the lowspeed characteristics annoying.
30-12-2007, 11:25 PM
#35
Originally Posted by Stavros
Originally Posted by Ginge !
what car you been using ?
Kids on mopeds and boyracers all had to bowdown to the new smoke machine
RS Daz off here saw us earlier in it actually
Ive only been home 10mins and im getting driving like a prick and doing donuts withdrawl symptoms
30-12-2007, 11:28 PM
#36
DEYTUKURJERBS
Originally Posted by big_wig_074
Originally Posted by Stavros
Originally Posted by Ginge !
what car you been using ?
Kids on mopeds and boyracers all had to bowdown to the new smoke machine
RS Daz off here saw us earlier in it actually
Ive only been home 10mins and im getting driving like a prick and doing donuts withdrawl symptoms
30-12-2007, 11:40 PM
#38
james w,i used to have a very fast sierra.but it died horrendously,and theres always talk of a certain engine going in another sierra,but hasnt happened yet!lol.
steve,im sure theres a spare key in the wallet we got today.
steve,im sure theres a spare key in the wallet we got today.
30-12-2007, 11:42 PM
#39
DEYTUKURJERBS
Yeah, Greg had a 400bhp+ 400lbft+ Saff back in the day. The car ive bought and will sell to Greg in a month or so will be its replacment.
And used for the same things, driving like a prick, doing donuts, and making people wonder why the fuck that really ordinary looking car just kicked their ass
Secret but one of these once won the Australian Touring Car Championship in the 80s 
And used for the same things, driving like a prick, doing donuts, and making people wonder why the fuck that really ordinary looking car just kicked their ass
Originally Posted by James-W
whats the new car steve?
but one of these once won the Australian Touring Car Championship in the 80s
30-12-2007, 11:43 PM
#40
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Originally Posted by big_wig_074
james w,i used to have a very fast sierra.but it died horrendously,and theres always talk of a certain engine going in another sierra,but hasnt happened yet!lol.