timrud

Went with my mate yesterday to pick his Nova up from NMS, who have been mapping it for him this week.

We didn't really know what to expect from it.

Got there and Karl explained a couple advisories with the car, such as the steering had a bit of play in it, and the handling was a bit poor. He then explained my mate must have a death wish wanting to own such a car, and its really not a safe car for use on the rioad

Car sailed through an MOT a month ago, so its not down to the car been a rot box/death trap.

Anyway we take the car away, and it a bit wet. So we leave it until later when its dried a bit out to see what she can do.

Quick trip to the M1, wind it on in 5th, all hell lets loose.... no traction at all, straight to sixth, same again

Granted it was a bit greasy, but holy mother of fuck, this thing is crazy. And it runs an LSD, with decent tyres.

Don't think my mate realiesed what a beast he had built. The car is totally not upto it, and needs some thinking to harness the power. Its awesome.

Anyhow, hats off to whoever drove it when mapping, you have some big balls

And a word of warning to people who are building serious FWD cars. I'm totally used to 300bhp in a car, and its pritty boring TBH. But this is another level of madness. I didn't realise how little you can actually use the power.

Tim

iTrader: (1)

It scared the fuck out of me pal you have to be in it to know what its like bet u were shittin it when he first got it on boost lol great sleeper and i for 1 wont be lookin for him pmsl

dave cos4x4

iTrader: (5)

whats the power thensounds really good.

edd

cant be much of a beast if you cant get any grip right?

timrud

Tim - I dont think any of us expected it to be like it is

TBH my mate seriously needs to learn how to drive it. Its scared him (and me ), so hes got mega respect for it, which is good

He certainly needs to look at ways to alter the car so its more grippy. Any ideas?

I wouldn't of minded one of you guys taking me out in it, as its going to be a while until his confidence/balls grow enough to give it anything like a proper booting.

Dave - Karl said its a conservative 400 on the ass dyno, which in something weighing in at under a tonne is more than enough

timrud

Edd its one of those things, you have to go in it to know what I mean.

Whilst it doesn't grip, its still propells you forward quicker than my 300bhp car would with grip, with the wheels spinning

Bonkers

gus

iTrader: (1)

how many points are on all the mappers licence too?

Christian and Beccy

iTrader: (14)

Exactly my point.

I still have a clean license and I didn't risk anyones life whilst preparing my car for the recent Thrash.

TimC

iTrader: (1)

Is it a C20LET nova? any pics?

timrud

Yeah I posted some when it hit the road for running in

Gimme 2 mins I'll find the link.

timrud

https://passionford.com/forum/viewto...069&highlight=

TimC

iTrader: (1)

RobL

mad mine scares the shit out of me sometimes
can imagine 400 bhp is pretty crazy

danneth

pete mcrash

iTrader: (1)

same as they do with 2wd.......and 4x4

RWD_cossie_wil

iTrader: (9)

Sleeper? It's got an intercooler the size of wales hanging off the front of it

Still going to be great fun though

C10SSE

Can you prove any lives were put at risk preparing any of the other cars that were at the same Thrash as yours?? Sounds a pretty bold statement... not a dig just interested as a concerened road user

Spares or repairs

Love it, maybe totally useless but grins from ear to ear no doubt

Christian and Beccy

iTrader: (14)

Well, you do the maths. During mapping we like to map in 4th really, but certainly 3rd and you need to see the whole rev range out to map successfully, but also ideally load points need to be reached and stabilised to be able to map accurately.

Now, my RST will do 100mph in 3rd and 135mph in 4th, just as any Cossie will I reckon.

Thats before I start talking about concentrating on the road as opposed to watching AFR gauges etc.

Daviet

left foot braking and applying load surely?
still could be scarey in some cars

Christian and Beccy

iTrader: (14)

You ever tried it? Besides, how can you run a car to 7500rpm and 30psi for example, if it hasn't been mapped that far? Now imagine 7500rpm and 30psi in 3rd or 4th gear on the roads, in the context of this conversation about safety.

mechanic28

iTrader: (5)

yer when mine got mapped at nms he just used the brakes to load her up

Lloyd

mine was mapped on the road and it will do 158 in 4th,just get somebody else to drive it while you map it,

Christian and Beccy

iTrader: (14)

But here we are talking about SAFETY, not whether or not it can be done and you're proving my point.

You're missing the point about using the brakes to load it up. Forget the boost for a minute, you need to see all the RPM to reach all the load sites, so regardless of boost, you will be doing the speed.

mechanic28

iTrader: (5)

this is true as he had to go through the rev range to get the fueling right would imagine he done it in 3rd tho still tho imo the only way to get a proper map is on the roads

Christian and Beccy

iTrader: (14)

But as said before, mine has not been mapped on the road atall. So you're saying that for 1% or 2% or even 5% maximum advantage (even if I accepted there was an advantage, which I don't), that its worth the massive amount of risk?

mechanic28

iTrader: (5)

yep so there it aint me driving so if karl,stu,bayjoo think its the best way thats good enough for me

Christian and Beccy

iTrader: (14)

But we are talking about SAFETY. What about if someone mapping a car at 130mph is involved in a crash that kills one of your loved ones?

Bet you won't be so cocky about it then.

mechanic28

iTrader: (5)

aint being cocky chap just saying imo i would always want a live map on the road,so as long as top tuners like said above reckon its the best way thats good enough for,i know what you r saying about the speed etc,but most tuners have quite roads they do it on i am sure

aduz

your mate is off his head

looks pukka but with that front end id hardly call it a sleeper

i bet its fun in the wet

Christian and Beccy

iTrader: (14)

Lets hope so.

I didn't mean to bite at you, but if you only saw what we are capable of on the rollers in terms of HOLDING load sites for much longer and much more accurately than you ever could on the road, also measuring increases from small timing changes, I'm sure you'd see that the pro's of dyno mapping far outweigh the con's.

mechanic28

iTrader: (5)

Fagin

There are a number of things you can not map as accurately / well whilst on a RR either, compared to road informed mapping.

I'd stick with the safety argument if I was you! lol

Ideally.... map on the dyno for the balls out stuff and then get the response, driveability, in-gear boost control sorted on the road.

Of course not many customers will pay for all this and at low levels of power some areas for improvement maybe negliable, so this can be done as a base map and fine tuned per car.

For the other kinds of jobs you ideally should use the best of both worlds.

Some people that can not have a dyno say road mapping is the best.

Some people that have a dyno say that is the best way to map.

gus

iTrader: (1)

mr c, would it still need a little fetterling after the came came off your rollers


or can real life conditions be acheived on them, cooling and the like

C10SSE

So are you accusing any of the tuners of doing this mapping on a public road of of doing live on a sealed surface, surely this live mapping can be done not just on the queens highway but also within private grounds that other public road users aren't on??

If you have concerns about people mapping at such excessive speeds on a public road surely you should take your proof to the authorities?

Christian and Beccy

iTrader: (14)

What a stupid thing to say. We were discussing SAFETY, you tell me me many cars on this forum that were not mapped on the dyno, were mapped on a private road? AFPMSL. I'd say a handful tops.

My car was totally mapped, start to finish on the Dyno. Driveability, the lot. The map hasn't been touched on the road and it idles at Lambda 1.0, cruises at between 0.96 and Lambda 1.0 and isn't reliant upon closed loop to do so. How many road mapped cars can do that? Not very many Fords, I can assure you from what I have seen.

Christian and Beccy

iTrader: (14)

As for going to the authorities, I wouldn't waste my breath.

C10SSE

Sorry, I didnt realise it was such a stupid thing I asked, obviously not being a tuner or indeed anything at all to do with the motor industry I wouldnt know either way.

Sorry I sounded so inferior to what other people obviously know.

C10SSE

I've found this link which helps understand the Road V Rolling Road tuning quite well

http://www.dentistmapped.com/road_vs_rolling_road.php