rs shawn

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/norfolk/7095214.stm

Real news.
All Tornados grounded at the minute until more news is known on why/ how/ what, etc.

Graceland

blimy. you would of thought there were safety systems built into the aircraft to stop this sort of thing happening when flying inverted?

philram

iTrader: (3)

did a good job to land it though..

rs shawn

There are...but no-one seems to know why/ how he came out. I'm not going to speculate, but it isn't as easy as the jet going inverted and the seat just falling out.

rs shawn

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/norfolk/7095214.stm

Nav has been found, unfortunately dead.

Don't know why the chute didn't open...
Can't have been a 'proper' civilian or trainee as they ejected and Command Eject seems to be set to 'rear only' otherwise the the pilot would have gone as well. That lever is always in 'Both' set-up if a non-qualified Nav is in the back

RIP.

Mr Sam

what a way to go

Tangodeltasierra3

ouch, poor twat

andyt

iTrader: (1)

R.I.P

PastyKing

i stood near work and seen the aircraft sitting on runway just after landing,i knew something serious was going on
i wouldnt want to speculate as to whats happened but i have heard a few very similar stories
R.I.P navigator

rs shawn

Did it still have it's canopy on ??
Reports say he ejected so wondering if the canopy was jettisioned, the MDC blew it open or whether the seat went through it ?

terrytennick

atm the only answers youll get are going to be rumor and speculation.

The people who really know will not be talking. and if they are talking theyll be out of a job pretty fucking quick.

There are a lot of rumors flying about, including the fleet being grounded, which I know to be bollocks.



Several other people on this site are in a position to know more, and i suspect theyre of the same mind i am, talking/speculating now is not a good idea.

One man has already lost his life, and there are people now potentially in the firing line as a direct result.




Regardless of the outcome of this, i can say that deaths are going to be an inevitable result of the clusterfuck that is BAE marham, and the total clusterfucks that are the RAF manning and maintenance strategies. but this is niether the time nor the place for that rant.

PastyKing

terrytennick
this guys seems to be in the know about the whole situation,
i dont think its right to comment on what i know so will hold back until a full investigation has taken place.
but it is becoming clear that the rafs critical manning levels are maybe causing issues

PastyKing

i can however comment on the fact the fleet are NOT grounded

Nash

iTrader: (3)

I dont even like my job that much but i am keeping my gob shut.

PastyKing
On a lighter note anynews on track days at Marham bud?

terrytennick

me neither, 90 days left and counting (still managed to get myself roped into the ski champs some how tho :/ )

Its more the fact that regardless of the outcome of the BOI its almost inevitable, but some poor liney is liable to have his life wrecked because of this. regardless of whether he actually did anything wrong. This got too high profile too quickly for them not to hang someone for it, not least to cover thier own arses and hide the fact that the pulse line doesnt bloody work, and is getting bloody dangerous.



RIP Mr Harland.

rs shawn

Well not really if the boi do their job correctly..unless the liney has actually missed something ??

Was just interested to know if the canopy was there or not as that would determine whether he ejected or not - not conducting my own inquiry, just wondering.

Btw, pulse lines CAN work: look at JFH. Yes there have been issues and pros and cons, but it does work if managed correctly with the right experience & manning levels, etc.
According to the latest bulletin all the Eng tech trades are 100%+ manned......

terrytennick

Hahaha on manning levels. numbers might be right, but god knows where they are, and 100% of an arbitrary figure theyve written on the back of a beermat is still not gonna help when that figure isnt whats actuall needed to produce a safe flying environment


Pulse lines can work, no question of that but i still argue theyre best suited to a production environment not a minor/primary* + major servicing line especially on frames that are now operating well outside thier designed safe life, tornados arent a) all the same b) coming in with the same snags c) in good condition

add to that the spares issues, rolling robs are only liable to cause more issues.

continuity of tasking is also an issue, when you dont know who started a job and ite been through 3 pulses its almost inevitable that something will get missed. yes there are things in place to stop that but its still digging yourself a huge hole to fall into. same as the round can/square can thing with om15

put it in a round can, even the biggest halfwit on a squadron wont screw it up. stick it in a square can and bang, sooties are pissed off at being dragged out of the t-bar again. no problem, well bring out loads of stis, form sto fill in, stick up posters etcetc to fix a problem that we created ourselves. (the argument about round can procurment is flawed, as basically were paying for a service, its up to our procurment agency to find a company that does what WE need, not what THEY want us to need.)






Been a lot of spin around CMU and how well its doing, apparently, according to our illustrious leaders, jets are coming out faster and cheaper than the AMFs could produce


What ive heard on the grapevine, jets are coming out late, in a shit state, with the same snags they went in with, with people working 12hr shifts and weekends just to drag up the quotas so the BAE execs makre thier bonuses.

DanCossie

iTrader: (1)

RIP

MattyRST

DazS1Turbo

Terrible News

R.I.P

rs shawn

Well that's true. I'm sure they make that up without taking into account courses, guard, leave, sickness, etc.


Perhaps. It must be easier with new bits as you built it rather than repairing as it gets stripped. Again that comes to manning & experience..and as you say, the spares issue. But that's the whole point of having a pulse line...management know what normnal maintenance spares they need for each jet & should have supply ready for when the team needs them. Spares was always the issue with having 1 team 1 jet: waiting for spares. Pulse lines are supposed to eradicate the need to wait as it's a continous cycle & demands should be automatically redone as each jet reaches that phase.
Jobs shouldn't be missed.but again I'm a realist & have been in that situation myself where a job wasn't done when it should have. Down to the management & planning of each phase again.

OM15 !! Yes, it's not good. Just co-incidence that they used to be made in different shaped cans. I agree that they should find someone who can produce what we want and not dictated to..but that's the RAF/Forces for you. Cheapest contract wins..and any fook ups are the fault of the producer (liney normally) who doesn't read the can...or that's how they see it.

Let's face it Terry..they're never gonna turn round after spending gazillions and say "well, the AMF teams actually sorted the jets quicker, hence cheaper..so let's go back."

Marham or JFH ?
JFH was certainly getting that way. And that's with the RAF workers doing the overtime/ weekends as it's free labour compared to civvy contractors.
Then the BAe management rubbing their hands with a tidy bonus for getting the jets out on time.

the original

http://news.bbc.co.uk/player/nol/new...m&news=1&ms3=6

chopped by the tail

Charlie Chalk

iTrader: (1)

RIP



So why was there two yesterday afternoon flying over Cottesmore

terrytennick

They were never grounded, the first waves were scrubbed/held and i imagine marham would have had thier own stuff to deal with.

It may sound insensitive but theres still a task to be done, so they wont ground the jets until its absolutely neccessary. As it stands, there is pretty strong (circumstantial) evidence pointing to what the failure was in this case, and it doesnt indicate a fault that would ground the fleet, its also something thats easily and quickly checked on the other seats.

The board of inquiry in this instance should be fairly quick, made easier by the fact that the airframe was recovered to base, there is only one component that can allow the seat to leave the aircraft in the manner it did, and thus they have a good idea where to begin looking.

terrytennick

Im certain of it. then they subtract another 10% and roll the dice for lean purposes.



Problem with the spares on the pulse line is the emergent work, you can never know exactly whats gonna come up even on a scheduled maintenance cycle, add in wild cards like gulf preps, Life extension programs, mod packages, knackered 20 year old wiring looms, cracked webs, broken frames, rudders that take the potentiometers off the pfcus for no apparent reason and so on it all starts throwing a carefully planned system into disarray.

With the amf system a jet would go in, it would get maintained and it would come out when it was ready with a clean book. yes it might come out a bit late, and there was always room for streamlining, ie ensuring that the bits you KNEW were gonna be needed were in place. but it never really affected the overall plot. and there was always room for jets going out early.


With the pulse system if a jet throws up a dodgy snag during a phase youre left with a dilemma, you can pull it off the pulse, you can fix it there and then and hold up the stuff behind it, or you can ignore it.

In our stats driven airforce which do you think is most likely to happen?




It is free labor, which is why you see a lot of blue suits leaving one week, and coming in the door the next monday in a different suit with shiny blue coveralls.

There are a lot of people asking themselves "why stay in?" can do the same job, for more money, without guard, dets, getting shot at by johhny foriegner, some bastard SWO nailing you for sidies, officers making a stupid decision, the right to have a union, the right to have RIGHTS, PAID overtime, shift bonuses etc etc etc. add do that in a civilian working environment when the bosses come up with something fucking stupid it gets shitcanned the instant they realise its losing them money.

Those that havent banged the paperwork in already, a good number are simply waiting till time ex, or for pensions, (7 or 8 on my team of 15 for example have either pvr'd in the past 6-8 months or are waiting for a year or 2 for pension rights/payouts) Of course all that does is increase the load on the people that are left and they either start to crack under the pressure, and make mistakes/miss something vital that could get something killed or they put thier own paperwork in.




/rant this isnt really an appropriate forum for this stuff and i shall stop before i talk myself into pvring. oh wait.....

rs shawn

I had a mate from Leuchars tell me that on the day it happened: Wednesday - they canned the flying and worded it as "they've been grounded today".
Sorry for the confusion....although I didn't word it as being grounded indefinately.

Terry: get on JPA and PVR
Now JPA's another subject altogether.

Charlie Chalk

iTrader: (1)

JPA is a crock of shit I cant wait to get out

rs shawn

My first bite

Charlie Chalk

iTrader: (1)

I dont care though, Im out 'soon'

PastyKing

rs shawn
never had any issues with JPA infact i think its pretty good

RWD_cossie_wil

iTrader: (9)

Sounds like Lyneham isn't the only places that have been shafted by the pulse/lean/blah blah blah spin lies bollocks then

The RAF engineering policy is a joke at the moment, classic case of the tail wagging the dog .... RIP to Nav, hope no one else has to suffer due to no top brass having the balls to so NO ...


3 years and counting.....

Psycho Warren

iTrader: (5)

Id agree with you on that

Good way to waste loads more working hours sorting out your claims!!

PastyKing

Nash
they seem to keep the trackdays pretty quiet i have a feeling i missed an evo day a couple weeks ago