AndyBrew

what a loser!!!

Physio

Erm.... ok?

AndyBrew

explain???

Physio

I was rather hoping you was going to do that

AndyBrew

well that was a good debate

AndyBrew

which bit???

Physio

Well you have to set out an argument for example, explain why you think he's a loser & then people can give you their opinions hence having a debate about the aforementioned subject

AndyBrew

seriously i am politically neutral but his decision not to call an election after a couple of polls is a bit limp surely ???

Physio

Ahhh ok now we can have a debate

Yes, he's a loser

PastyKing

its easy to see why he wont call an election
he knows he wont be voted in
captain penis like all politicians

AndyBrew

sorry I was making an assumption that as a reasonably intelligent person we would be paying some form of limited attention to current affairs and would based upon that assumption realise that he being gordon assumed he would romp home in a general election but after a couple of independent opinion polls went against him he is now "shitting it" that he will be Gordon Brown MP (Prime Minister 2007 - 2007)

Mark V8

iTrader: (2)

He is just another nepotistic tosser out to screw the country.

Mark

skeg

Labour and Brown are wearing thin and the country is in a mess in many areas but when you realise that only guy/party with a realistic chance is Cameron the muppet then what can you do? I'd rather have Steve McClown running the country than him.

Mr Whippy

An odd kind of democracy we live in, where a man we didnt vote in to leadership can decide to veto the need for an election, as he might loose

tabetha

Nepotistic, had to look that one up!!
Yes the slug monster is on the way out!!
tabetha

Redkop

Great.... that means we will have to put up with the tosser until 2009 now!

neilm

You lot make me laugh...

Half of you couldnt name the leaders of the main three parties, and those who can know hardly anything of their policies, its just whinging for whingings sake.


You all seem to forget that its Gordon Brown who's been the chancellor since labour came to power, who's kept the economy in check, enabled slow and sensible growth in the country.

Far be it from me to say most of you have never had it so good, but when I left school under the tories there were 3 million unemployed and we had to move to the south just so my father could get work to support his family.

Now unemployment is almost unheard of.


Home owners have had years and years of low interest rates on their mortgages.... under the tories it got to 15%

But half of you arent old enough to remember and those old enough have a selective memory.


I'm not saying all in the garden is rosy.

But its not bad.


And Gordon is right not to call an election, why should he ? he's got 2.5 years to build his own track record rather than riding on the tails of Tony Blair.

That way the people will be voting on him and his leadership rather than him taking one in the ass for Tony.


Was that more what you were looking for Andy ?

neilm

Actually he's a winner.... he won the leadership contest without any effort and will run the country for at least another 2.5years...

So if thats loosing... what would he have had to do to win ?

smitsturbo

the way i think of it is, it doesnt matter what you want or think its never going to change britain so its a waist of tim trying to

dojj

iTrader: (3)

neilm

but isn't brown the same guy who's fucked the pensions up? by spending too much on other stuff?
and isn't he the same guy who's promised all governemtn employee's big pensions without actually having the money to pay for it?
and isn't he the same guy who was told that the penisons crisis was going to happen if he did things his way but told everyone else to fuck off because he knew what he was doing?

it's like letting paris hilton lose with your cheque book

i'd vote for cameron and the tories because they seem to actually have an idea of what we want to be happening in this country

and for brown to pull a stunt like "lets go to iraq and tell the boys they might be coming home" when it's news that about 3 months old has just made him into a bigger cunt that we thought he was before

we were all taken in with tony b liar's spin on things and now it looks like brown is going to be even worse

the biggest thing is that the tories will scrap the "human rights" and "brussels" bits of the eu busybodies so that gets my vote, whatever labour promise is just going to turn to something else which will turn into some excuse or another to not actually do it

on the other hand, as much as i like ken as london mayor, i think boris wil give him a good run for his money, but it's going to be a bit of a fuck up seeing as ken's spent the best part of 7 years working this out and his things have made sence for boris to come in and have to start work with a clean sheet

Daviet

it is wrong that someone thats never been voted in by the public is running our country apparently for the public dont really understand that
i think the fact hes a banjo player from fife explains alot
wont be getting my vote anyway

RichardPON

Actually, since the party didn't put up an alternative in the leadership contest, in order to give the picture of party unity, I would say the "victory" was somewhat of a given.

Rich_w

Neil

Fair play to you. You've backed a loosing horse and you're not about to jump ship. Loyalty is a great thing.

BTW. I cant buy a 1st property because of the last 10 years "slow and sensible growth"

I know the Tories had to make some tough decisions in the 80s and 90s. But I can say with almost total assurance. Labour would of done the same things had they been in power. The market forces at that time were not solely confined to the UK IIRC.

My question to you. Would Gordon Brown of liberated the Falklands? Or do you think he would of "negociated a 3rd way" For all her sins Thatcher was no push over and ALWAYS put this country and patriotism higher up the list than Blair or Brown ever have.

Just to counter my leanings. I believe that when John Major took over he didn't hold an election either. But I stand to be corrected.

scoooby slayer

iTrader: (4)

i think we should have someone whos worked for a living ie up early and home late to pay the bills and put food on the table.
people who work hard dont get rerwarded by this goverment they get rinsed. its legalised robin hood country.
you work ur ass of and earn loads of money to pay it in tax and part of it given to people who dont work

thats my view anyway ive worked my arse of all my life and payed far to much in poxy taxes and it aint right ive paid a few other peoples share to as many of you have no doubt

dojj

iTrader: (3)

the tax issue is a big thing, no one actually knows where the money goes to or why council tax is so high up
i thought central government distributed tax to the locals who would then decide where to spend it
it's like going to school and then having to pay the school for stuff that the local authority should have provided in the first palce

basicly it's all quite fucked up and osmeone needs to get rid of these people who just sit around all day doing fuck all, and the jobless need a kick up the arse too

the one policy ithat would make me vote for any party, quite probably regardless of anything else they had in their manifesto? free child care for parents who both work and no free child care for people who don't
why should i have to pay £200 a week for someone to look after my kid while i go out to work?
if i stay at home i get everything paid for so can someone explain to me exactly how that is fair?

i'll get off of my soap box now

neilm

I think you will find that the country votes for a party not a person.

You seem to be confusing this with the X Factor.

RichardPON

AFROFL!

scoooby slayer

iTrader: (4)

its not fair at all mate. they dont wana help people who work there asses of though. only the people who do absolutely nothing. we dont get half our wages when you add it up taxed before you get paid, vat on everything you buy, 400 odd % tax on fuel and fags. the working man is being taken for a mug in this country.

neilm

How can I have backed a loosing horse ?

Labour came to power with the biggest landslide in the history of british politics....

Would that have happened if the Tories were doing such a great job ? Errrrr hardly.


Would labour have decimated our coal and steel industries so we are now reliant on imported gas and coal from Europe ? and as a result held to ransom for our energy.

Errrr dont think so...



The Falklands ? What a tragic joke that was... we went to war there for the same reason as we are at war in Iraq... and that is oil.

It was widely thought that there was large reserves of oil under the south pole and that if we had a staging post it would put us in a great position.

As it happens no one has yet exploited that oil and the rewards have not been reaped.

So it cost this country millions to fight a war and an even bigger price in human lives, when perhaps the correct thing to have done, with the benefit of hind sight was to negotiate a peaceful settlement.

Rich_w

So you believe we should of negociated when a foreign country invades with force our land?

I see.

The land was ours. The people on that land wanted to remain British. Yet you feel a negociation (presumably back to Argentinian control) was in order?

Principles are something Labourites have never really understood is it.

PF Dave

I seem to have been 'suckered' into polictics of late as like F1, it's actually got a 'little' bit interesting.

I think Labour got in because the Conservatives were losing their way, BUT Labour are the ones now way off the mark, making poor decisions, and pretty out of touch with society and life in the UK in general.

After digesting some of the party conference notions, I think it's fair to say although there is no ideal party from my point of view, David Cameron is MUCH more in touch with reality and how things are in the UK now than any other party or leader; getting rid of the ID card system, border policing, upping inheritance tax threshold and stamp duty etc.

That's what I want to hear along with many other policies that are actually based on looking at things from a more real world perspective, and is why I'll be voting Tory.

Be interesting whenever the election does actually happen!

neilm

Sadly you could not be more misguided.

You only have to look at the great industrial disputes of the last century to see that the working man in this country has more pride, dignity, principles, honour and loyalty to their fellow man, there were the same men that fought two World Wars for this country

People endured great hardship through these times from the 1920's right through to the 80's



As for your Falklands arguement, well.... Tony Blair took this country to war in Iraq because this country and others in Europe and America were being attacked, not by another country but by terrorism.

So it would appear your argument is not holding water my friend.


For the record I personally dont agree with either of these wars.

Rich_w

I see. Only Labour supporters were able to give sacrifice through World Wars?!?!?! What the fuck are you on?

God Almighty! You must be on crack. To change the subject like that and claim I dont understand. Falklands and Iraq have virtually nothing in common. I didn't even mention Iraq.

Rhys

WTF was thread start on about



not going to get into the whole things, as seriously cant be arsed. I not a big Brown fan i must say... but im not a Cameran fan either. I im not 100% party loyal... as most people here seem to back one horse no matter whos right or wrong on subjects. Just remember guys, vote Rhys for next election

RichardPON

Neil,

The problem is, most people these days are so disenfranchised that it doesn't much matter who is in power any more. Combine that with a blurring off traditional political locations in the spectrum, and a large percentage of the elctorate are under the impression that anyone who's in will do an equally shit job. Unfortunately, such is the way of democracy - very effective in effecting very little in the way of change.

I'm a staunch conservative, but even I was prepared to give New Labour a look in post 90s Tory sleaze etc. The one thing I remember from election night in 97 was my mum saying how it was such a bad thing, and that we'd suffer under a Labour government to the point where we'd struggle to get our rubbish collected. It might have taken 10 years.....

Bottom line is this. Life is a hard graft for most people, and they just want small pleasures, and the odd thing to make things a little easier.

Unfortunately, it's never been worse. Council tax bills are sky high countrywide for minimal value for money, where bo-weekly rubbish collections are proposed, roads are in a poor state etc etc - Yes, I know this has little to do with central govt issue, but there's still a devolution of policy right the way down....

Combine poor local service with high fuel bills, ridiculous mortgage payments, expensive public transport etc etc and people have a struggle enough just getting to and from work and existing in their home, before they even count the pennies to see what little is left to go out and have a good time.

The stable economy is fantastic, but simply to own my own home, and run a very normal car, have a mobile phone, and get to and from work everyday costs well over 15k a year out of a net income!

Stable economy, but no quality of life......

Rhys

Totally agree, but do you think the Conservtives under Cameron will do any better? im not sure. IMO the parties are to similar atm. WE need some better leaders in the parties. Someone you know what they stand for with no bullshit etc.

tabetha

Labour did get people back to work, still on shitty wages, and income support top ups, but hey it took them of the official list didn't it!!
I love(some) people from the north who think anyone south is on £1K a week, and all our bills are lower.
tabetha

Chris Honeywell

TOO true they just moved the unemployed to job schemes ( so off the list)
and people now just go on to incapacity benifit
I am 37 so remember all about the previous Tory government..

And as for interest rate its all got to be in perspective yes they were 15%
but the ammount people had to borrow was much lower..
We get hammered in tax now more than we ever did
its all our fault apparently hence all the new GREEN taxes to make us feel that were murdering the planet for driving to work..

I just came back from the tip i had to drop off load of cardboard as
1 it will not fit in our full up grey bin
2 our green bin collection will no longer allow cardboard. garden waste ONLY!!!
so i had to do a 5 mile round trip to drop off the cardboard

So i pay council tax £150 a month, have to drive to the tip (fuel tax plus vat)
When they start charging per mile i'm gonna have to pay that as well.
Tanks a lot labour

Daviet

so it was tony that took us to war i thought it was labour as it aint an individual we vote for is it?

neilm

No.. I mentioned Irag because you were holding Maggie up as the saviour of the nation because 10,000 sheep and a few hundred people were saved from a life of slavery in the Fray Bentos Factories of mainland Argentina.

I was merely pointing out that Labour also had the courage, or stupidity, depending on your point of view to take the nation to war.

The common underlying driver in both conflicts is OIL..... and the control of it.

I would hardly say they have nothing common.








Well Andy... you wanted a debate.... you certainly got one... although not much on Good Old Gordon.....