Redkop

Car owners who refuse to name speeding driver face six points in effect from Monday CLICKY

Motorists who fail to disclose who was driving when a speeding offence was committed will receive much heavier penalties under a new law that comes into force on Monday.

Courts will be able to impose six penalty points on a driver’s licence, up from a maximum of three at present.

The change in the law is being introduced in response to a sharp rise in attempted evasion of speeding tickets by drivers who claim they cannot remember who was at the wheel at the time of the offence.

But motoring groups argue that innocent drivers will be placed under greater pressure to confess to offences in order to avoid the risk of receiving a higher penalty. They also said that drivers who made mistakes in filling out the paperwork would be unfairly penalised and could lose their licences.

The law is most frequently used to prosecute owners who receive speeding tickets in the post and then fail to write back with the name of the driver.

It is also used in other cases where police do not establish the driver’s identity at the roadside, such as drink-drive offences and when a driver fails to stop after an accident.

tabetha

Thank god for students, round here they will take the points for 150 a time for 3 points.
tabetha

Redkop

They'll be wanting Ł300 if it's 6 points at stake....

Oranoco

Shame the powers that be aren't nearly so quick to push through laws for penalties to deal with proper crimes

Rolls

iTrader: (2)

So much for innocence untill proven guilty....

djmillsy

agreed mate it the usual well get the motorist cause he was going a bit fast fuck the murderers well get an result with the cars

Miller 3

iTrader: (4)

Do some Fucking Real Work for fuck sake' COCKS

Chip

iTrader: (3)

The letter I got about 5 years ago about this told me I risked upto 6 points even back then, so that doesnt tie in at all with what it says about 3 points here.

However in my case I actually DID name the driver, it just turned out the police couldnt locate him as he had sinced moved to australia, which meant they were unable to proceed.

Nath

I've had that before where my Slovakian lodger borrowed my car and I never heard anything back at all

FasterFords

Isn't the new law illegal ?

i thought you had the right to remain silent, and could make them prove guilt.

will they have a new law that says all Murders must come to the police station and admit it, otherwise they'll get a bigger sentence

Chip

iTrader: (3)

No, the road traffic act has always stated that part of your obligation of being registered keeper of a vehicle is to know who is driving that vehicle.

Much like in the example you give of a murderer, if the murder was committed using a license firearm registered to me, and I couldnt provide any evidence at all about who I had been lending it to, I may find myself liable for losing my firearms license.

arch

Don't forget fellas, it's not just speeding we use this for. What about non stop accidents, fail to stop, dangerous driving, etc etc (or is that not real work either)

mikee_rs

motorists are easy targets

FACT

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

And constant law breakers.

FACT.

If you didnt break the law, you wouldnt give a flying fuck about this new legislation.

ANOTHER FACT.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Also if the laws actually made any sense, people would be less likely to break them whilst safely going about their business they would get broken less by responsible drivers

FACT

And if the laws and how they are policed were geared towards stopping dangerous driving not focussing purely on speed lots of lives would be saved but income from fines would drop

FACT

Jim Galbally

not strictly true stu, i care about a lot of laws which i will never break (and no speeding's not one of them, i do that )

what annoys me is when legislation is badly thought through and is open to abuse. for example it's all well and good to say "this is only to be used for blah blah blah" but it'll be so open ended someone will abuse it to sting people.

another good example, the legislation about holding terror suspects... great idea...


...oh wait, people are using it not how it's intended to hold people without trial...


and extradition treaties signed with the US i the wake of 9/11 so we can get terror suspects easier

...og no wait, now they're extraditing people for white collar crimes

Redkop

That loophole was closed ages ago, you have to prove the flights/sallings/ferries etc now of when the person entered/left the country.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

No you dont, not if its a british national, the "loophole" was already closed at the point that such a person was driving my car and I had to provide none of those details.

SPENSPUMA

I think its a great idea.

Why should someone get away with not paying a speeding ticket by saying they werent driving when its a blatant lie and they were?

Its like most of these laws that people moan about - DONT break the law and you WONT get punished - i cant see whats so difficult about that??

Untill recently i had 9 points on my licence, but i didnt go around trying to blame the system or try to fudge a way out of paying.

I agree, the motorist IS an easy target, but only if you dont abide by the law.

Redkop

Many govenment/police sites now state in their FAQs that proof will be required eg North Wales

Q. I was not the driver; it was a friend/relative from abroad?
A. If the person nominated as driving the vehicle at the time of the alleged offence is living abroad, we will ask for proof of insurance details, and/or flight details.

Another example from a forum...

So it's up to the individual concerned if they want to pervert the course of justice and face higher penalties....

Another tightened up rule to come into force on 1st October...

Although vehicles with incorrectly displayed registration plates already fail the MOT test, from 1st October, the rules will be tightened further.

This is as a result of feedback from traffic enforcement cameras, Automatic Number Plate Recognition systems and road user charging technology. The new rules require the MOT tester to visually inspect the number plates, which must be present, secure, show the correct registration, colour and be the correct size, format and font.

RWD_cossie_wil

iTrader: (9)

bunch of cunts basically Guilty until you prove your innocence. Perhaps if the lazy fat bastard lying police got off thier donut filled asses, and caught some criminals instead of sitting on motorway bridges with a speed gun, this country wouldn't be in the mess it is in now ....

The Courts are just as bad, hammering decent hard working people who have commited a minor traffic offence like doing 90Mph on an empty motorway with huge fines and big points, then letting burglers and car thiefs off with a miniscule fine and bollocks like an ASBO or bound over to keep the peace . Perhaps if you bunch of fucking wasters did your job properly, you might have some respect from the general public, instead of having to clean up after gangs shooting each other and 11 year old kids getting shot in the back of the head in the street Violent crime is soaring, road deaths have stayed the same after thousends of cameras and a fucking HUGE rise in speeding convictions..... If you were serious about cutting road deaths you would concentrate on better driver training, and dangerous/careless driving....

But I know you lot will continue to trot out the same old excuses, blah blah blah speeding kills lies lies lies, BAD DRIVING KILLS, not speed Fucking jokers, the lot of you, but don't worry, you "speed", sorry, SAFTY ( more lies and spin) cameras will sort everything out

CUNTS

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Redkop, that applies if its a foreign national, it doesnt apply if its a UK citizen.

If you drive my car tomorrow with my consent while you are living in the UK, I am not then liable for "failure to name the driver" if I give your correct details as of the time of the offence but then you move afterwards, as obviously otherwise every garage who let anyone testdrive a car would have to track their whereabouts from that point forward

Its only if its someone who lived abroad at the time of the "offence" that you need to provide evidence they were in the country, NOT if its someone who was UK resident.

Thats the subtle difference between the person who was driving my car and nath's

tabetha

Just pick up the paper and name a dead person as your driver.
tabetha

pugo

well how about leave the motorists for a year or so, pop into 90% of the pubs in the uk and clear all the fucking druggies out of the loos sniffing class 'A' drugs up there noses so my children have a chance of growing up in a safer enviroment........and dont tell me they are hard to catch as our local landlady bars about ten people a weekend lol...........ah but there aint the revenue in it is there

Micky The Finn

or try saving a drowning child!!!

pugo

RWD_cossie_wil

iTrader: (9)

So, why does 99% of the population now HATE the police? .... it's a shame, 15 years ago most people respected them, but with the way the police, the CPS and the courts treat people now, no one has ANY respect for them , common sense has gone out of the window

Miller 3

iTrader: (4)

Fucking brilliant

SPENSPUMA

Or..why dont we NOT speed in the first place and then we wouldnt have to complain about being caught??...seems simple to me.

I know the police could be doing better things with their time but it aint gonna happen is it - the country needs the revenue from speed cameras to pay for low lifes, illegal immigrants and people living on benefits - so it aint gonna change, moan or not.

But at the end of the day we are all FULLY aware that police and cameras are out to get us so its our own stupid fault if we break the law and speed.

You cant blame the Police for YOU breaking the law.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Indeed, where as we should view the police as our allies against criminals, my own personal view of them is one of them being my enemy on the road.

The "lets make money from motorists who arent causing a problem" scheme, is the worst thing ever for police/community relations.

4x4

but its only six points if you fail to disclose the speeding driver on owners licence..... so it will still be 3 points if you name the speeding student

4x4

doesn't make sense that an honest citizen who works to provide for themself or family get it worse when caught doing 15mph over the speed limit on a empty motorway than a genuine criminal found guilty of some offense! You seem to pay for it more and for longer than a car thief would for his crimes

points which last for 3 years or however long it is is fucked.... for being a bit hard on the right pedal your insurance premium can go up or even worse you can loose your job...... how fair is that?

Diamonds.

iTrader: (2)

i dont understand why your all crying over it fucking hell lol

if you didnt speed etc whatever you wouldn't be getting a nice letter asking

if you lend your car out tell them who did it. end of the day its your car you lent it out etc why would you not want to name someone who has broken the law etc in YOUR car. fuck taking the wrap for someone else. if you cant prove it cause you lent it to fucking Boris from kazakhstan and cant prove it then thats your fucking fault...

just grow some balls and take the wrap for your "crime" and dont say about catching real criminals etc....

gumbos

The Rapid 1

OK true story.

Just recently my mate got done for this

He works nights and was asleep in bed at the time, not interested in proving to the police he KNEW he was.

BUT there was his car in a picture.

At least three people had access, as they always do, as the keys hang on a board in the hall and all have permision to use the car and access to the house, his wife, his wifes mum (mother in law) and his wifes sister.

NOW they have ALL denied it to him, right or wrong among family maybe, but they all just said it wasnt them individualy, and have all stuck to it (blood thicker than water and all that )

So IS it right my mate cops a fine and points, or should he say fuck off its my car NOBODY else can use it and cause domestic rows when his wife for one cant use the family car, and still cause upset between him and his wife saying her mum and sis cant have access, maybe he should sleep with the keys.

SO seriously is this really fair


Oh and I been done for speeding once in the last 20 years, didnt moan about it as ye I was speeding, but do agree with the statements that I wish the Police did spend more time clearing our streets of druggies, from class A right down to a bit of puff , as dont care how you gonna tell me what you do is harmless it still pays the cunts supplying the hard stuff, and in reply to the cop who says dont we think speeding is a real crime, NO I DONT !, car crime is cars getting nicked broken into car jackings and yes hit and runs, NOT just a camera stuck up on a post, or someone wasting there day stuck in a van, I mean they dont even have to be coppers anyway, and then you got the lot on the motorways, proving it dont take a real cop to do them duties, no I wouldnt want your job, and feel sorry for the way you are viewed in general and the respect you dont get and the lack of support given by the CPS and the sentences handed down by the courts, BUT dont say Im a Villian or criminal or as bad as some junkie and deserve the same amount of effort spent on catching me doing 5-10 mph over the limit


Steve

arch

Sweet Lord,
There are some people on here who need to understand a little bit of my working week before I get accused of bashing the motorist!!!

Just done a six day week, covering earlies/lates and then nights.

Earlies consists of playing catch up with paperwork from the previous week, and seized a few cars from some low lifes for no docs.

Two lates next, first late pursuit of a stolen motor and result of car recovered, two locked up.

Next day, possible Fatal collision with a young lad, spent most the shift trying to sort and will spend the next few weeks/months investigating it.

Now onto nights, siezed a few more cars for no insurance/no licence. Few fights and stupid drunks.

Last night, pursuit of a stolen Audi S3 involved in attempt theft of a free standing cash point machine. Lost it as the driver drove like a c+++ and I have to play by the rules. Spent the rest of the shift sorting out paperwork.

I right this as this is my typical working week as a traffic officer in a busy old place in a vain effort to explain to you good folks that no where did Mr & Mrs Joe Average get picked on by me. I do not have the time for such trivial matters as a few miles over the speed limit. I have no time to sit and wait in a trap to catch people travelling at speeds that I would probably do myself on the way to work.

I am not a C===, I am a reasonable fella.

All I ask is that instead of saying 'All coppers are wan@@@@', could you change it to 'Some coppers are wan@@@@'

Thankyou.

Iain Mac

The thing that gets me about speed limits is that we the people have NEVER had any say in the levels they are set at. In fact, when the first motorway was built it had NO speed limit and the then-Labour government introduced the 70 limit as an experiment that has never been repealed. And remember that when the 70mph was set, most cars of the day would struggle to reach that speed and typically had drum brakes all round!

There doesn't even seem to be any science about 30, 40, 50 60, 70 mph that says the road has been engineered to meet this standard, or this is the outcome of a collision at x speed, or whatever.

Why should a dual carriageway with entrances and exits on both sides and crossing traffic have the same limit as motorways?

Why should EVERY motorway built in Scotland in the last 10 years have a 50mph limit. It means that you can legally come off the motorway onto a B road and accelerate!!!

Everyone knows it is wrong to steal or assault someone, or go out and kill someone, but the act of speeding (driving at a speed above a notional limit) is truly a victimless crime - who gets hurt by it? People get hurt when something goes wrong, and that can happen when you are travelling below the notional limit too.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that most people hate the Police but I do think that this issue has had the effect of criminalising millions of otherwise law-abiding citizens, and if that then turns them from 100% supportive of the cops to only 70%, that is an EXTRAORDINARILY bad thing for our "leaders" to have done.


Vote Iain Mac!!!!!

Iain Mac

Sadly cameras don't show any discrimination, just turn the dial to the speed you want to catch us at, and sit back and wait for the cash to roll in. Meanwhile, the uninsured arsehole, drunk driver etc doesn't get spotted by the camera and you are in your office sorting out paperwork.

The Rapid 1

Applaud you and all the work you do

Well last week anyway

I dont knock any cop who wants to pull me over to check my documentation etc, that is what helps catch the cunts that will nick my car

I dont knock any cop who pulls me over for speeding (well there was one case of a bird cop who was gonna get me done for wreckless after she saw me recklessly overtake a car, in her rear view mirror, the guy with her just shook his head as he went and sat in the car after he'd checked my documents, which included a letter from my insurance company saying I had and was allowed to use the bottle of nitrous in my boot , nothing come of it ) and there have been a few

BUT as said after all them pulls in twenty years I have only been done the once, cos if you stopped by a copper they can asses the situation and style of my driving and as said only done the once, BY a fooking twat sat in a van 100 meters from a camera, with him sat just round a bend from a camera, no other roads or junctions on the road, but just the right place to catch people speeding back up after slowing for the camera, which obviously needs to be where it was as that is the accident blackspot, NOT 100 meters up the road

Sorry if I didnt come across right, I really do have a lot of respect for the man out on the beat (or even one sat on his arse in a traffic car lol)

WHAT I dont have is respect for the cameras or money making camera vans, especially back in the day when they took someone like you Archy off the roads or street


Steve

The Rapid 1

Well you get my vote, well for talking sense anyway

Steve

PGT

[quote="RWD_cossie_wil"]So, why does 99% of the population now HATE the police?

dont think they do - which statistics are you referring to?

most drivers have broken the speed limit at some some time and many have been caught by cameras etc. if you break the speed more often you stand a higher chance of getting caught. the law is public knowledge and as it stands at the moment you get points / fine. it will likely get viewed as a more serious offence soon when a few more kids have been run over.

10 years ago these arguments existed about drink driving and eventually the message sunk in and the police were seen as the kill joys then. the fcat is its nothing to do with the police - they just enforce the laws.