Alcon 3 pot calipers, how do they work?
19-09-2007, 08:53 PM
#2
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sorry to go off topic martin but someone off here said you might still have bruces old escort cosworth shell for sale? or do you know of any?
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19-09-2007, 08:57 PM
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My best guess..
Looking at the photos, you can see that there is only the width of a pad on the near side of the caliper, and extended travel on the 'pot' side of the caliper. They look like they are radial mounted, which is wierd, but they must be floating.
At a guess, they work by effectively pulling the far side pad onto one side of the disc, whilst the near side is directly applied to the disc.
I can only presume that this is to improve unsprung weight????
JJ
Looking at the photos, you can see that there is only the width of a pad on the near side of the caliper, and extended travel on the 'pot' side of the caliper. They look like they are radial mounted, which is wierd, but they must be floating.
At a guess, they work by effectively pulling the far side pad onto one side of the disc, whilst the near side is directly applied to the disc.
I can only presume that this is to improve unsprung weight????
JJ
19-09-2007, 09:05 PM
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Re: Alcon 3 pot calipers, how do they work?
Originally Posted by martin-reyland
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/FORD-JWRC-FIESTA-ALCON-CALIPERS-WRC-RALLY-RS-COSWORTH_W0QQitemZ180160566902QQihZ008QQcategoryZ2 3013QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Some sort of sliding bracket??
Some sort of sliding bracket??
it was a slidding bracket but they realized it just doesnt work so scrapped the idea.
19-09-2007, 09:08 PM
#6
Re: Alcon 3 pot calipers, how do they work?
Originally Posted by Cosworth Rallyesport
Originally Posted by martin-reyland
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/FORD-JWRC-FIESTA-ALCON-CALIPERS-WRC-RALLY-RS-COSWORTH_W0QQitemZ180160566902QQihZ008QQcategoryZ2 3013QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Some sort of sliding bracket??
Some sort of sliding bracket??
it was a slidding bracket but they realized it just doesnt work so scrapped the idea.
But how the hell did they get a 909 number if they don't work? Was it an Alcon design failure or Fords?
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19-09-2007, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Stavros
Wonder how badly "they dont work" if you get me?
As im sure they were tested to high heaven beforehand?
Look awesome, would be interesting to test.
As im sure they were tested to high heaven beforehand?
Look awesome, would be interesting to test.
19-09-2007, 09:22 PM
#12
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Originally Posted by Cosworth Rallyesport
Originally Posted by Stavros
Wonder how badly "they dont work" if you get me?
As im sure they were tested to high heaven beforehand?
Look awesome, would be interesting to test.
As im sure they were tested to high heaven beforehand?
Look awesome, would be interesting to test.
19-09-2007, 09:34 PM
#13
Originally Posted by Stavros
Originally Posted by Cosworth Rallyesport
Originally Posted by Stavros
Wonder how badly "they dont work" if you get me?
As im sure they were tested to high heaven beforehand?
Look awesome, would be interesting to test.
As im sure they were tested to high heaven beforehand?
Look awesome, would be interesting to test.
19-09-2007, 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Stavros
Originally Posted by Cosworth Rallyesport
Originally Posted by Stavros
Wonder how badly "they dont work" if you get me?
As im sure they were tested to high heaven beforehand?
Look awesome, would be interesting to test.
As im sure they were tested to high heaven beforehand?
Look awesome, would be interesting to test.
19-09-2007, 09:36 PM
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Originally Posted by martin-reyland
Originally Posted by Stavros
Originally Posted by Cosworth Rallyesport
Originally Posted by Stavros
Wonder how badly "they dont work" if you get me?
As im sure they were tested to high heaven beforehand?
Look awesome, would be interesting to test.
As im sure they were tested to high heaven beforehand?
Look awesome, would be interesting to test.
ring neil at M-sport,iam sure he will still have a few there he would happily get rid of,sorry i mean sell you.
19-09-2007, 09:38 PM
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and while your at it if you have a push bike you could buy a few hundred sets of the matching two pot rears,thats if you can find a disc small enough and thin enough to match them.
19-09-2007, 09:40 PM
#17
Originally Posted by Cosworth Rallyesport
Originally Posted by martin-reyland
Originally Posted by Stavros
Originally Posted by Cosworth Rallyesport
Originally Posted by Stavros
Wonder how badly "they dont work" if you get me?
As im sure they were tested to high heaven beforehand?
Look awesome, would be interesting to test.
As im sure they were tested to high heaven beforehand?
Look awesome, would be interesting to test.
ring neil at M-sport,iam sure he will still have a few there he would happily get rid of,sorry i mean sell you.
19-09-2007, 09:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Cosworth Rallyesport
and while your at it if you have a push bike you could buy a few hundred sets of the matching two pot rears,thats if you can find a disc small enough and thin enough to match them.
19-09-2007, 09:48 PM
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MARTIN,are you serious there?
if so thats rather worrying,as any modern or not modern sliding caliper is not radial mount so pushes and pulls against itself,these are radial mounted,think about it eh!!
if so thats rather worrying,as any modern or not modern sliding caliper is not radial mount so pushes and pulls against itself,these are radial mounted,think about it eh!!
19-09-2007, 09:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Tony Ryan
Originally Posted by Cosworth Rallyesport
and while your at it if you have a push bike you could buy a few hundred sets of the matching two pot rears,thats if you can find a disc small enough and thin enough to match them.
19-09-2007, 09:52 PM
#25
Originally Posted by Cosworth Rallyesport
MARTIN,are you serious there?
if so thats rather worrying,as any modern or not modern sliding caliper is not radial mount so pushes and pulls against itself,these are radial mounted,think about it eh!!
if so thats rather worrying,as any modern or not modern sliding caliper is not radial mount so pushes and pulls against itself,these are radial mounted,think about it eh!!
19-09-2007, 09:53 PM
#27
Originally Posted by martin-reyland
Originally Posted by dojj
having seen the pictures i understand who they work
you buy 2 sets amd use the bits without the holes to make one set of 6 pots
you buy 2 sets amd use the bits without the holes to make one set of 6 pots
i'm sure someone can weld a bit of ali over the holes, or soemone might try
19-09-2007, 09:55 PM
#28
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Originally Posted by martin-reyland
Originally Posted by Cosworth Rallyesport
MARTIN,are you serious there?
if so thats rather worrying,as any modern or not modern sliding caliper is not radial mount so pushes and pulls against itself,these are radial mounted,think about it eh!!
if so thats rather worrying,as any modern or not modern sliding caliper is not radial mount so pushes and pulls against itself,these are radial mounted,think about it eh!!
19-09-2007, 09:55 PM
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a radial mount on a slider trys to twist the caliper this drastically reducing its effectiveness,this was found out on testing these calipers,very unreliable and very stupid to put on a competition car that really does need to stop!
what next?square wheels or cages welded in backwards?
what next?square wheels or cages welded in backwards?
19-09-2007, 09:56 PM
#30
Originally Posted by YoungDan
Originally Posted by martin-reyland
Originally Posted by Cosworth Rallyesport
MARTIN,are you serious there?
if so thats rather worrying,as any modern or not modern sliding caliper is not radial mount so pushes and pulls against itself,these are radial mounted,think about it eh!!
if so thats rather worrying,as any modern or not modern sliding caliper is not radial mount so pushes and pulls against itself,these are radial mounted,think about it eh!!
19-09-2007, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by martin-reyland
Originally Posted by Cosworth Rallyesport
what next?square wheels or cages welded in backwards?
19-09-2007, 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted by martin-reyland
Originally Posted by YoungDan
Interesting...
Surely they cvan't be *THAT* dangerous? Or they'd destroy them not flog em on?
Dunno though, I aint the expert..
Surely they cvan't be *THAT* dangerous? Or they'd destroy them not flog em on?
Dunno though, I aint the expert..
friends in very high places remember.
19-09-2007, 11:02 PM
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The calipers work in exactly the same way as 99% of road car calipers do.
On the Super 1600 Fiesta the slider in an integral part of the aluminium front upright and would be hard to fit to any other hub. However a similar system to work on any chosen car could be designed fairly easily.
They worked well but it became apparent that they were just not ideal for rallying where everything gets covered in shit unfortunately including the sliders. So for a track day car they would be more than adequate.
The calipers are from Boreham Ford Motorsport, where the car was designed and MSport then later inherited them.
They were superseded by Focus WRC calipers.
Just out of interestCosworth Rallyesport do you know anyone at MSport?
On the Super 1600 Fiesta the slider in an integral part of the aluminium front upright and would be hard to fit to any other hub. However a similar system to work on any chosen car could be designed fairly easily.
They worked well but it became apparent that they were just not ideal for rallying where everything gets covered in shit unfortunately including the sliders. So for a track day car they would be more than adequate.
The calipers are from Boreham Ford Motorsport, where the car was designed and MSport then later inherited them.
They were superseded by Focus WRC calipers.
Just out of interestCosworth Rallyesport do you know anyone at MSport?
19-09-2007, 11:27 PM
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19-09-2007, 11:34 PM
#40
Originally Posted by YoungDan
Originally Posted by martin-reyland
Originally Posted by Cosworth Rallyesport
MARTIN,are you serious there?
if so thats rather worrying,as any modern or not modern sliding caliper is not radial mount so pushes and pulls against itself,these are radial mounted,think about it eh!!
if so thats rather worrying,as any modern or not modern sliding caliper is not radial mount so pushes and pulls against itself,these are radial mounted,think about it eh!!
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