JTECH James

iTrader: (13)

what are the differences?

is the map different?

Billabong

-31 base lift off pressure approx 8 psi (smooth and progressive action)
-34 base lift off pressure approx 14 psi ('snappier' action)

JTECH James

iTrader: (13)

thats the difference i thought too,

so the fuelling map would be different? and possibly the amal control?

pete mcrash

iTrader: (1)

mines mapped for a -31...so it would fook it all up,but if u have a chip off the shelf it can be set up to work...........(sorry i forgot u dont listen to me)

Ridgey

iTrader: (5)

Hmm...... never heard a mapper ask what actuator you have to write the map.
It's just a mechanical device that limits the boost pressure. -31 you can go as low as 8 psi, -34 as low as 14psi.

If you are runnig greens you could use either, and as far as i can see there is no difference AT all in the maps. As you are NOT altering air flow, fueling etc etc.

-31 or -34 set at 19psi, doesn't matter.

Jasesapphy

iTrader: (1)

Must admit Stu never asked me what actuator i was running

pete mcrash

iTrader: (1)

all grove use (if asked) are -31's............when i had a boost problem i said i'd put my -34 back on to see if it was the actuator....he said no its mapped for a -31.........turned out to be a dodgy amal valve,but thats a different storie

pete mcrash

iTrader: (1)

......ur going to get a different progression of boost

Porkie

iTrader: (1)

People don't listen as you are wrong

pete mcrash

iTrader: (1)

............why....read what i've wrote............i'm going to listen to my tuner over any monkeys on here......

Jasesapphy

iTrader: (1)

Well i listen to Stu, he has never asked me what actuator i use, he did ask about headwork, cams compression ratio, injectors, turbo, housing, modifications to turbo and inlet, nothing about actuator.

Last time i checked Stu wasnt a monkey

Ridgey

iTrader: (5)

The type of actuator is irrelevant what is important is the pressure it is set to hold, i.e. is it appropriate for MAP sensor and injectors.

All this bull about actuator and mapping is BOLLOCKS ask any tuner for a chip and they ask as stated above what:

turbo (flow for pressure)
injectors (fueling)
MAP sensor (MAP range)

pete mcrash

iTrader: (1)

...didnt say stu was a monkey did i..........i've used msd quite a lot in the past....i ment monkeys like u.................

pete mcrash

iTrader: (1)

..........so if u use a -31 the boost comes in sooner and more progressive.......so u need fuel at an earlier point.....Dave have u been to grove?????.........if u go there they will almost deffinatly advise u to use a -31........i had a -34,they told me to get a -31...........

Ridgey

iTrader: (5)

pete mcrash
How exactly does actuator make boost come in sooner and more progressive, at this point it is doing nothing ???? That is all down to your turbo type, surely.

Actuator is working at the other end of boost profile when the boost has built up and it begins to Limit it by opening the wastegate

I've personally got a Collins type that the springs inside is changable.

pete mcrash

iTrader: (1)

at the top of the page are the lift off pressures for a -31 and a -34

Moonstone Steve.

iTrader: (2)

Why couldnt i get my -34 to peak 26 psi, it would only hold higher right to the point where the wastegate penny was rattling off its seat.

Steve.

RWD_cossie_wil

iTrader: (9)

You sir, would be quite wrong , the spring in a -31 is designed to be perfectly linear, and the differing springs in other actuators will make a difference to the overall map - The chip needs to be matched to the engine spec, or it will be wrong, simple

Also if your actuator is too weak you end up with wastegate creep

4x4

i have to say i agree with everything Dave Ridge is saying.

How would an actuator make the boost come in sooner

CAN ANY TUNERS SHINE SOME LIGHT ON THIS

JTECH James

iTrader: (13)

im glad i asked this question now, seems to be a can o worms

i definetly agree that the actuator choice cant make the turbo create boost quicker ,it just isnt possible, as the wastegate is closed on either actuator when making boost, the only difference being one will open sooner than the other, this is the reason i assumed amal map would be different as it woulodnt have to full bleed for so long with the -34?

JTECH James

iTrader: (13)

its not a case i DONT listen to you ,but when asked to expalin how the advice you give works or what effects it has ,up till now you havent been able to so am i going to risk doing something you have told me? when it could damage my engine? no

all i asked last time was for you to explain how removing the internal compents of an amal vavle ,can fix it...... which anyone should see ,it doesnt. the valve would NOT work.

if you had explained it as mitsy fq did ,that the valve would be on full bleed thoughout the map, and having the valve open all the time would make no real difference, i would have understood, but you didnt explain it at all ,just said ahmed told you to do it

i like to learn new things ,so if im going to make any mod to my car that i dont have experience of, i want to know and understand how it works before i make the decision to do it. i wont do anything unless someone can explain how/why it works. MAYBE the next time Ahmed tells you to do something you should try asking why.......and you may just learn something

pete mcrash

iTrader: (1)

so have u tried it then................. .........fixed my car anyway

JTECH James

iTrader: (13)

no i havent ,because i want my amal valve to work as stu wanted it to when he mapped my car

with a new actuator ,as i correxctly diagnosed as the problem in the first place.....

i have a nice 32 psi spike ,and holding 28psi

pete mcrash

iTrader: (1)

...puff....

JTECH James

iTrader: (13)

can you explain that?

pete mcrash

iTrader: (1)

.........does everything have to be explained to u.???................it was a joke as in dont be soft

JTECH James

iTrader: (13)

just wondered if you could explian anything... well done you passed.

pete mcrash

iTrader: (1)

..............i dont claim to know much fella,but the advise i give is from experience or from people that know much more than me........

JTECH James

iTrader: (13)

they may advise YOU for your aplication ,but its not the same as everyone elses

so in turn passing this information on ,without knowing the ins and outs of it ,could be considered dangerous

JjCoDeX75

I cannot see how a different actuator would require any work to the ECU Map at all - even with respect to the Amal valve.

Ultimately, it fuels the car based on map against rpm (subject to trims), and as such, the different actuator is not going to affect either of those, as it cannot affect its volumetric efficiency (notwithstanding that VE is maximised when the wastegate is actually open!).

The amal valve will simply be told to operate at a given achieved PSI - As such it shouldnt in theory (to the best of my knowledge) make any difference providing the Actuator is actually capable of the job at hand.

JJ

pete mcrash

iTrader: (1)

..............what a picky twat u are..............ffs

JTECH James

iTrader: (13)

so what would be the advantage of running one over the other, if a -31 can be wound up to open at 30psi , and so can a -34, there would be no real benifit?

the amal valve theory i was thinking about.. was, if the amal valve bleeds air away from the actuator to prevent i seeing the full compressor boost so it doesnt open, with a stronger actuator, it in theory wouldnt need to bleed of as much, or for as long because the actuator itself could keep the gate closed even if it was seeing full compressor housing pressure to a point

rapidcossie

A stiffer actuator will make the peak boost com ein earlier as it will not open until more boost is acting on it.

This in turn will force more air into the engine compared to a waste gate that has open earlier.

Jay,

iTrader: (4)

hence the 14 psi spring so then mabey some ignition changes and fuel

JTECH James

iTrader: (13)

i just tell it like it is pal, you are giving out information, all be it in a helpfull way, and im not digging at you if thats what you think, but to many people on this and many other forums imo give out information they dont understand in the hope it is correct without fully knowing.

my question is..what if it isnt?

the answer...BANG.

so picky yes i am, but when it comes to it , being picky may save me an engine.

come on you must see my point here?

its like someone telling you the fuel pressure for you cossie is 3.5 bar pipe off,which is standard and what most tuners use, so you set it, only to go and melt your engine, afterwards you find out your tuner uses a higher pressure, but the person who told you didnt know, it a dangerous game imo

JTECH James

iTrader: (13)

ahh getting somewhere now

Turbosystems

iTrader: (5)

to keep it simple a -34 is used when the -31 is not strong enough to keep the wastegate closed and is over come by the exaust gas pressure in the turbine housing.
Boost is boost, running a -34 will not lower the boost threshold so if your map was mapped by an expert fuel and ignition maps will not need changing.Boost maps will however need changing or the valve flow rate can be changed by changing the jets

Jay,

iTrader: (4)

right ok this is my take on it the 34 will hold the wastegate shut longer so preasure will climb that bit quicker then it will hit a group of load sites which mabey are not set aquuratly so then on then the car could run lean and det

a have got data logs some where that with 31 actuator and a 34 ill find them out but the out come was a on average 300/400 rpm lower psi pick up on the 34 to the 31 and a quick increase of psi on a 4 gear run so it was definatly hitting at least 8 different sites on a load up and it was a lot leaner as i had never hit those sites with a 31

JTECH James

iTrader: (13)

so i was correct to advice someone not to just fit a -34 instead of a -31,

and to check with whoever wrote the software first as the map could be different!

Jay,

iTrader: (4)

but s tony says a expert pmsl and im a novice compared to him stu ect

but tony if my 31 was to weak would that be why i found what i did on a my data logger ?