morto

hi all, the story was that my crank was well fooked and was past being re grounded, so i sauced another re grounded one but at the time did not now or realize that you still need the cradle that was first married to it so my cradle was really no good for the new crank? after putting it all together it sounded as bad as the fooked one i then phoned the guy who sold it to me who said oh yes that can happen sometimes as the cradle is not the one that came with that crank he is now sending me the cradle that was married to that crank from manufacture! but i struggle to get my head around it as its the bearings that house the crank? so does that mean if you buy a new crank you should really always buy a new cradle but then thats still not the cradle for the new crank whats the story guys??

andy

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Sounds like utter bollocks to me, the bearing caps are matched to the block not the crank.

morto

thats what i thought mate btw this is a E3 so there is 1 main bearing 4 sets of cradle bearings and 4 sets of rod bearings, but have spoke to other peeps today who now alot about them and they say you do need the cradle that came with the crank! for my year car they is 5 different sets of bearings that you have to track down by letters and digits and colors on the block and crank but if your putting a reground one in that all means nothing

andy

Martin-Hadland

iTrader: (2)

Agree with Chip.... Also, why bother using anything other than a std/std crank?

Martin-Hadland

iTrader: (2)

I reckon you should keep your original cradle and work out what graded bearings are needed to suit the new crank in your existing block/cradle..

morto

what do you mean mate, not to use a reground? the one i got is oem but a reground just not the one that came out of my block

andy

Martin-Hadland

iTrader: (2)

A good condition std size crank is much nicer than a re-ground one... Unless you are offset grinding it for a change in stroke.

morto

thats what i thought as i do have digital calipers and measure the journals then go to acl bearings or oem,

andy

D19 STE

this is shite news for you mate your car sounded terrible just hope you get it sorted with that supplier

AlexF

sounds more like you have the wrong size bearings for the regrind your crank has had

Martin-Hadland

iTrader: (2)

Use 'plastigauge' to check the clearance between the bearing and crank, then at least you will know it's right ...

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Martin are these cranks graded in the same way that rover stuff often is, with different "standard" sizes from the factory.

In the case of minis for example, the block is stamped with "R" or "G" or "Y" to designate the size of the bearing, and slightly different bearings are used, but when you buy aftermarket bearings (or even new from rover) no such choice is given, and you are stuck with one "standard" size

Red16

i always thought you couldnt swap main bearing caps from one engine to another...

is the cradle not doing the same job as the main bearing caps? meaning if the cradle was changed for one from say a different engine, it would need to be fitted and then be line bored?

Chip

iTrader: (3)

You are exactly correct, and clearly know more than the engine builder he got advice from!

Martin-Hadland

iTrader: (2)

Not sure if they are but at least if he uses plastigauge he will have an idea how near his clearances are before he puts it all back in the car.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Absolutely, wasnt disputing that in any way, was just curious if it was a known issue with them sizing the mains on that engine.

AlexF

You absolutly can....

so long as you spend about Ł150 on a line bore LOL

Alex

morto

the latest update is not good news at all, ive just been on the phone to dave ears who is a evo specialist www.ears.co.uk he used to rally them and now supplies parts and fully services them, hes told me that he wont offer reground cranks as he has struggled with the same problem i have, using his mechanics who now there stuff they changed and tryed diff bearings to stop it rattling but to now avail !! and only to use a new crank with new bearings
ive taken my cradle off this morning and my rod bearings have movement so took them out and measured the journals

44.59 44.59 44.64 44.49 the machine shop supplied .50mm bearings

the crank looks ok

this is the oem spec

Rod bearings 4B1185

Standard shaft size 44.981 / 44.996 mm (1.7709 / 1.7715 inch)

Housing bore 47.998 / 48.019 mm (1.8897 / 1.8905 inch)

Max. bearing thickness 1.493mm (.0588 inch)

Max overall length 21.10mm (.831 inch)
Main bearings 5M1186 (positions 1, 2, 4, 5)

Standard shaft size 59.985 / 57.000 mm (2.2435 / 2.2441 inch)

Housing bore 61.000 / 61.021 mm (2.4016 / 2.4024 inch)

Max. bearing thickness 1.990mm (.0783 inch)

Max overall length 21.00mm (.827 inch)


Main bearings 5M1186 (position 3, flanged)

Standard shaft size 59.985 / 57.000 mm (2.2435 / 2.2441 inch)

Housing bore 61.000 / 61.021 mm (2.4016 / 2.4024 inch)

Max. bearing thickness 1.990mm (.0783 inch)

Max overall length 25.40mm (1.00 inch)

so im well fooked dave says he can sell me oem mitzy crank with oem bearings for Ł620.00 but ive all ready lost 300 quid

andy

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Get one of those stroker kits, 995 quid for the whole fucking lot!

morto

good idea but you also have to find i think its a 4g64 block


andy

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Ah, wasnt aware of that, still worth the effort though IMHO

morto

Chris off here is doing one and he was looking for a block and i couldent understand why as when i was at his house he had a full evo 2 engine on the floor, he then told me you need a diff block,

andy

Mr Whippy

Andy that kit isnt with the 4g64 block matey, its with the 4g63 block that you have in your car!!

The 4g64 block is used for a 2.1 destroked engine or a 2.6 tall block stroker. So if i were you, i would seriously give huss a call and get a kit ordered, sell those pistons that i got you cause they are mint, and just get it all together!

Chris.

morto

thanks for the info chris and for the phone call, still trying to think whats the best thing to do, ive just thought that if i just take the crank out of your e2 motor will it mate up ok with my block, as those bearings will be matched up to that block, its more complicated then i thought , i cud also take the block and cradle and crank off your e2 and give you my block and cradle ,it was just that i loose my head gasket and bolts and it means a full strip down


andy

Mr Whippy

To be fair matey, for the effort involved, would you not just fancy taking my complete E2 engine and throwing it in your car as is?? If it runs nice then your a winner, if it doesnt then at least you will have all the parts available there and then to make a whole good motor.

Like i said on the phone, whatever you need, take. As long as i end up with a good cylinder head block and cradle for my stroker build, then im not stressed.

Chris.