Rippers

Lists them at the bottom as coming soon
http://www.mongooseexhausts.com/Coll...components.htm

Chip

iTrader: (3)

They'll be weak and shit

Great for N/A use in cars where weight matters and there is no torque, but shit for a turbo.


Thats my prediction anyway!

smitsturbo

are they the ones in the ford magazines lately for £4k +

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Funny, as I looked into this at the end of last year and once I managed to get pictures to Harvey of the alloy block (thanks to Tony at Turbosystems), he said EXACTLY the same thing, so the idea was abandoned.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

I wish harvey would stop saying whatever I do and come up with some ideas of his own

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Chip

iTrader: (3)

The fundamental design of the YB flock is badly flawed for massive power, the only reason it gets away with it is that its made from tough old iron in the first place, made out of alloy it has NOTHING going for it!

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Some pictures most probably haven't seen .

Rod-Tarry

Mike
We are now over 800bhp

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Mike, if you could get that casting, but NOT in alloy, that would be the bollocks!

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Cosworth are "supposed" to be doing this when they recast them, however, whether they will still exist in the 18 months lead time they are giving, remains to be seen .

Rick

Cosworth have released a new alloy block themselves have they not? Do they rate it for big power?

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Ive heard rumours of the 200+ block as well.

Seems like thats ALL it is though

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

It's the same one and it's not Cosworth that originally did it .

yrkesman

You mean this?

rauri

Martin-Hadland

iTrader: (2)

The Millington block is stronger..

Oranoco

Short answer, but effective

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Yes, Cosworth USA just do the machining work on it.

jacko

get them to do a titanium one

Chip

iTrader: (3)

I dont think the thermal expansion properties of titanium are suitable for a block.

Jay,

iTrader: (4)

why is it stronger martin

jacko

isnt that the reason that people use nicosill liners so that they dont expand

MAD ANDY

blimey

foreigneRS

but if you're suggesting putting something that does not expand in a block that does, don't you think that they would then be a little loose?

Stavros

be interesting to see what them new blocks are truly good for rather than just speculating.

remember back in the RSOC days everyone who should know better saying RS500 spec was the ultimate and any more would cost millions of pounds, last 2 seconds, and be totally undrivable, and we all know how much bollocks that was

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Actually, er no. The power band is significantly narrowed UNLESS you're prepared to spend thousands extra on longer rods, different compression height pistons and solid lifter top end to enable the rev range to be stretched to improve gain extra rpm at the top, lost by the reduced spool-up of fitting a big turbo. A 650-700bhp Cossie engine (specced properly so it doesn't surge etc) costs the best part of £25k . A 500bhp T4 engine is £10k, so for an additional 150-200bhp, you're paying more than double . Obviously you can do it cheaper, but don't expect it to last more than the 2 seconds quoted .

Stavros

So your saying a RS500 T4's boost threashold is noticably much better than a GT35? In the cars ive been in it seemed about the same, both a bit shit.

And even if what your saying is bob on, its nothing compared to the crap that used to be spouted on the RSOC about how bad/expensive they would be

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

In my experience a GT35 is 500rpm WORSE than a T4. A T4 engine comes in at around 4k, a GT35 at around 4500rpm and some of the turbos used to make 650-700bhp can be even worse (I've seen some of the Scandanavian power graphs where full boost isn't reached until 5000rpm or higher ).

So 2½ times as expensive is insignificant in your mind? Why do you think there are so few GENUINE 650+ cars about (and I'm not talking about the bullshit power cars from Norway etc ) ?

I still think that although the Brits may not have lead the way in innovation, they're certainly ahead in execution (having been to Gatebil and seen the Scandanavian cars in action).

Chip

iTrader: (3)

A decent spec GT30 motor like doug stirlings is far better than an old T4 setup, but lets not turn this into a political discussion about the RSOC or who said what.

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Chip,
I haven't experienced a GT30 for myself, but I I would be surprised if you could tell the difference between the latest roller-bearing cored T4s and a GT30 .

However, I agree that going beyond a particular size turbo on a 2 litre (as Doug found out) is pointless and a huge compromise JUST to chase numbers for down't pub .

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Mike, can you tell the difference between the latest roller bearing T4 and the original RS500 one?

If so, stavros is right that things have moved on when people said they wouldnt.


Regards


Chip

Stavros

500rpm is NOT the kind of crap people were saying back in the day, 500rpm isnt much, and a lot of RS500 T4 setups seem to be more like 4500, so no change at all.

I dunno about you but id not expect a significant increase in price of a build just becuase the rev range has been extened by 500rpm

And of course 2.5times increase (if your using same crank, rods, pistons, cams, inlet, ehxuast, etc etc etc as a RS500 T4 setup to get an extra 50-100bhp, im not sure how it can be 2.5times more expensive anyhow?) is huge, but still pales into comparison to what used to get spoke about.

And what im talking about was before we started to see the Norwiegan cars anyhow.

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

I'm still waiting to see a direct back to back comparison - Euan should be able to give us this . However, considering that the new T4 is a full ceramic roller bearing core (not like the early ones), I would like to think some improvements have finally been made.


They must be pretty shonky T4 set-ups to make full boost by 4500 . I think perhaps if they had a GT35 specced car, then they would still be boosting at 500rpm higher as well .

You're forgetting that when you get to this power level you HAVE to have the block linered, as it is almost impossible to find a good early 200 block that isn't made of monkey metal . So linered block - £2k ish.

Also you have to change the 2wd manifold for anything over 600bhp, which then adds the cost of a tubular manifold and external wastegate - £1.5-£2k.

Solid lifter top end (inc cams) to safely allow revs above 8k - £1k+

A suitable turbo will be £1,300ish.

Without mods, even the RS500 inlet becomes restrictive at 600bhp, so this needs changing / or modifying.

The costs just ramp up and up, as everything around it needs improving / changing as well (intercoolers / cooling systems).

I bet if you actually sat down and added up the costs even on the cheap you'd get to an horrendous figure.

Also, if you'd spent all that money, you wouldn't want to trust it all to the shonky OE loom and ECU , so at least another £1.5k to get a good ECU and loom.

All the above is without the internals (crank £1.5k, rods £750-£900, pistons £700 etc etc) and headwork yet .

Rod-Tarry

Mike just take a look at my latest GT40/88 Graph it has more torgue at 4200rpm than my old T4 Spec & certainly my GT35 Spec would have biffed up the road while my old T4 was still wiping its arse.
One day Mike you will have to have a ride in a truely fast Cossie me thinks you would be shocked.

Jay,

iTrader: (4)

rod what was on it when i went out in it ?

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Rod,
I'll take that offer up . Obviously when you go to a bored and stoked engine, it makes a BIG difference in spool up (hence why mine is as well) . It's one things the Yanks got right - there is no replacement for displacement .

If you're at Croft, I would like to reciprocate that offer on the basis of "Have a ride in a truely sorted Cossie - me thinks YOU would be shocked at the corner speed etc" .