Alps Pacino

JonnyBravo

I agree 100% with what your saying but the problem is who do you listen to???????????? cause i will openly admit i aint capable of specing or building a 500bhp engine

dovboy

stick a 500bhp engine in your car and then come back and tell me what you think
i have had 300,330,370,420bhp and i can tell you,if you can drive it NONE of them would get near the 500bhp cos,sorry but thats my opinion

mechanic28

iTrader: (5)

anyway 500bhp is at the upper limits of any cossie block no matter how well set up u know u r still pushing your luck in ways!

Alps Pacino

Ian M500COS

I didnt realise you couldnt long stud a 205. Dont shoot the messenger i'm just relaying what was said on here

mechanic28

iTrader: (5)

ok i will so there

dovboy

at 500bhp i would not trust a block made of cryptonite!! but for now i will stick with the 200

Alps Pacino

dovboy

mechanic28

iTrader: (5)

if it can stop superman it good enough for me

c0ss1e9i6

Agreed! Get the fooker on a track or quiet (private!) motorway!

mechanic28

iTrader: (5)

it was ment as a example

dovboy

track is the only place to have fun in a fast car now anyway.or am i just an old fart!!

Alps Pacino

No your just scotish, its speed cameras every 4 yards up there, which i have the fucking pleasure of tomorrow on my slow trip to sunny Dundee

JonnyBravo

I trust my tuner, however his time keeping is bloody awful and I dont think he personally does the block machining but I dont ever remember him saying he has had any of his fresh 200 blocked 500bhp engines fail like people describe.

He has however stripped plenty of new customers engines that have failed in this way though, he has his opinions and tbh I know enough to know he isn't feeding me a pack of lies when he talks to me.

He prices things correctly and doesn't claim to build 500bhp engines on a budget, its a long studded 200 block if you want reliablity end of.

JonnyBravo

Not at all mate, been for a good burn up with a few mates tonight and appreciated why my mate who driving so sensibly, too many old bill and wanna be old bill about these day, not worth the risk imo.

Can't and shouldn't ever push as hard on the road as you can on track

dovboy

long drive,,get to your fookin bed!! lol

Alps Pacino

Ok mam

c0ss1e9i6

Fook off, get to the west coast!

Some brilliant roads free of speed cameras but high volume of camper vans, midges and sheep!

(flying back up there tomorrow-if the fookin airport is open!!!)

RWD_cossie_wil

iTrader: (9)

Ok...How I would build a 500BHP engine for reliability and decent power/torque.....

1) 200 Long studded block, decked and bored to correct size for a clean bore. Hi pressure genuine cosworth oil pump. WRC spray jets if you want perfection, std spray bar if on a budget.

2) Polished crank, shot peened rods if on a budget, H section rods if you want perfection. ARP bolts mains and big ends. Fully lightened and balanced bottom end ( but not too much weight off, it will loose loads of "oomph" and drivability)ARP flywheel bolts.

3)7.4:1 mahle pistons with valve cut outs
cometic 3 layer steel gasket if on a "budget", propper 4 layer WRC gasket if you want perfection.

4)25/26mm Ported polished head, skimmed flat and CC'd along with the pistons, to ensure accurate comp ratio, also taking into account the thickness of a squashed head gasket
new gen ford followers, BD14 inlet cam, either std or a BD10 exhaust cam depending where you want your power...vernier pullys

5) 4x4 sapphire (500BHP) or small turbo escort cosworth (550BHP) inlet plenum depending on how much power you want, no point in banging on a "swedish" plenum, as at 500BHP you are just loosing response, it does not need the extra airflow yet so keep your gas speeds up...

6) Turbos- T4 with wastegate mod and 360 bearings etc, solid as a rock and can take the abuse all day long.
Or an externally gated GT30, not tried one myself but GT's have a bit of a reputation for being fragile.

7) 850/1000cc a min Injectors on a L8 with closed loop/wasted spark conversions. Full live map, personally I would use MSD as their work is unbelivably good, and the advice you get is 100% no bullshit, if you need somthing you get told, if you don't you don't get sold it, simple

8) Big wing sump with gated baffles

9) Every sensor,seal, bush, gasket and bearing brand new, valve guides replaced.

That should see you right, and be a drivable RELIABLE 500bhp and good torque

Talk to the right people (Ian M500 Cos ), and this spec should be fairly sensible to achive ŁŁŁ wise, if you have good doner parts to start with. If assembled correctly it will be a monster

Also worth considering is the ancills you will have to upgrade, suspension, drivetrain (box, diffs, clutch), fuel system ( pumps, lines, filters), cooling system, intercooler, brakes, wiring loom will 90% need changing due to poor signals from a 15 year old loom, fuel pump wiring for the same reasons, hoses, headertanks, etc etc...

To get a car to a sensible spec for a 500BHP car will leave you very little change out of 10K....if any, probably cost a LOT more when you consider the whole package..

Again, take it from someone that knows

JonnyBravo

Dingy

I very much doubt you have mate cause it aint been near any rollers in 2 years

Dingy

My block has just been stripped at 10,000 miles with approx 500bhp and 10,000 at 400bhp

Block is like new.

Block is not the weak point is it LOL

Mine was the shitty cosworth oil pump - i'm using a 10 quid pinto pump next time LOL

JonnyBravo

Are you using long studs Dingy?

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Level 1, 6, 600, 8 and P8 are all 100% fully live mappable and we can control everything you could imagine needing that the ecu is capable of. However, for big power we recomend L8 for good reason...


Well, you spoke to me too and the "Reason" i would advise against doing it on L1 and 6 is quite simply. L1 and 6 have inherent internal faults with the Earth design that often leave the engine dead when running large current drawing injectors hard at big power. I can and will live map 500 and more on L6 if required and have done so many many times, i just think its a bit of an unnecessary risk and a waste of your money considering the cost of a level 8 and all the great things you can have for it extra in your map, such as:

Serial Datastreaming output.
Error Logging.
Closed loop fuelling.
Anti Lag.
Launch Control.
Almost 100% reliabilty.

Not to mention the transient injector control is better giving greater driveability and fuel economy and it has decent idle strategies for when its cold due to being voltage referenced, unlike the ECU's before it.

Plus, some features on their way to you arent available for L1 or 6 either, such as Closed Loop BOOST Control.

Teh rest of the topic seems clear though, but i find the 205 block is fine for 500bhp. Dont forget to install a decent fuel system and rewiring the fuel pump and ECU is normally a requirement. Finally, ensure you have injectors that will run no more than around 75% flat out. Dont be daft and push your injectors to the max at this level, it will end in tears and they will definately be yours.

Dingy

My block is long studded yes, because at the time i was lead to believe this was the best way.

However if i was doing this again from a new block i wouldn't bother cause its not required.

Fagin

My old RS500 which was just over 500bhp, was on the standard 500 block and L6 with the 8 injector set-up on eight greens, air injectors and T4. Standard headbolts with a wire rung block.

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Deano

First of all Alps ......... are you actually rebuilding or leaving the engine in situ and just upgrading parts to acheive the 500 marker ?

If you leaving the engine in and just want to replace parts thats what I would do .

I successfully ran a T4 8 green set up with no less than 36psi on a 205 Block and standard bolts and a Cometic headgasket when they first came out , infact Paul from PJ let me have it cheap because it was an unknown entity to him so I was a test mule ......... and the whole thing worked faultlessly for me right up until the day I sold it to the car to him .

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

200 blocks tend to crack around the studs, hence why I use the long versions.

205 blocks tend to crack in the block WALL.

Obviously there is a big difference . The former can be recovered with reverting to long-studs, the latter gets turned into a nice coffee table .

There is a restriction in the 2wd inlet manifold, which can only be removed with mods to the elbow. Fitting a plenum spacer is as much use as a chocolate teapot without this mod .

Rgearding the Scandanavian cars that do it the "cheap" way, I have spoken to a well respected Swedish tuner about this, and he says that it is down to financial reasons that they don't long-stud them . Also, he said that the fact that these Scandy cars tend to do VERY low mileage means that they last quite a while with the standard bolts, and the kind of mileage that a UK car would see, would take most Scandanavian's 2-3 years to equal.

Most UK cars do 8-12k a year (12,000km to 19,000km) and so the head lift issue with the standard bolts is not so much of a problem, when you replacing the gasket every 2-3 years compared to annually on a UK car that is actually used regularly .

Just like there are lots of different T34s, there are lots of T4 variants, and you need a minimum of the 57 trim version to break into the 500bhp arena (which flows 48lb of air).

You then need a suitable ported head (which requires the awkward exhaust ports to be machine ALL the way through, not leaving the standard 22mm size in the middle like most seem to do ), or you won't get past 460bhp.

I would also personally like to see 7.2:1 (maybe a smidge higher if a good ECU was being used), to enable big boost figures AND high ignition values.

Cams are also critical, but these really just move the power around, so it depends on how you want it to drive. A mild exhaust cam (such as standard), will help it come on boost earlier, but at the expense of ultimate top end power....

SapphyMike

decide who is going to tune the car for you, then follow their suggestions.

much easier than taking 25% from one, 25% from another and 50% from the third, and ending up with something no one wants..

and of course tuners are going to say different things.

each has their own method of doing things!

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Never a truer word spoken .

SapphyMike

just common sense Mike - and fuck - i've said something you agree with - life as we know it, is over

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

You said that last time I agreed with you, but you're still here .

SapphyMike

when did you last agree with me? lol

and it doesnt need someone to die for life to change LOL

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

I can't remember what it was, but you said the same thing then .

Fagin

Bastard!!!

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Couldnt resist, its been too long. Hope your well fella.

saph4be

interesting thread this

SapphyMike

I am sorry to disappoint, but I have no intention of dying just to satisfy you

You'll have to wait 60 years - but then you'll of popped off before me

WD Pro

Any info / details ?

Cheers,

WD

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

One of the Scandanavian's did the mod and regularly posts up the pictures of it, but I can't remember who .