Ratty

iTrader: (1)

Borring

Same argument could be said about the positives for speed limiters, stop trying to sanitize the world according to the hair blair bunch

Let people enjoy a fag, it does no harm to anyone else. Show me some facts stating how many people die from this and then show me how many die from cotton wool related accidents. If you try to stop all accidents and deaths people would be stuck at home dying of boredom

Your argument is based on superstition and nothing else

Terry Tibbs

Sorry but you are pointing fingers.

What happens if you drop a drink whilst driving? I drink and drive (not alcohol!) and I'm sure if I dropped some I'd put on more of a performance than dropping a fag, same with food, money, cd's etc. etc.

I don't think it should be banned and I smoke, but dislike it.

Ratty

iTrader: (1)

Banning smoking altogether I agree with (and I smoke), banning it in cars = pointless

Chip

iTrader: (3)

No my arguemnt is based on seeing the standard of driving drop when people I know smoke, such as yourself dropping a cigarette when driving.

Your argument seems to be that as it doesnt cause many accidents its ok, and those that do lose a loved one as a result of it, should just lump it as it suits you to do it and so far when dropping a ciggarette you havent killed anyone so it must be ok.

Im of the opinion that we have lots of things banned that should be legal if smoking while driving is, if people are going to be allowed to do that then for example drivers should be allowed to choose wether or not they wear a seatbelt, and doing 71mph down a motorway not smoking seems far less likely to make you swerve and crash than doing 70mph while potentially dropping a fag on yourself, so why is 71 illegal but smoking and doing 70 is legal?

Chip

iTrader: (3)

TBH I think its a fairly pointless argument to try and tell me that a stray pork pie landing on your lap is as distracting as a lit fag doing the same!

Ratty

iTrader: (1)

No your argument is based on an extreme - dropping a lit fag in your lap, burning yourself and crashing and killing someone

If we did this in all walks of life we'd all be wrapped in cotton wool

Chip

iTrader: (3)

If people want to smoke Im of the belief thats up to them providing it doesnt endanger others, I think that we get told too much about what we can and cant do.
But I dont think smoking should be legal while other less harmful drugs are illegal, it needs to be the case that if they are going to ban anything at all, its the things causing deaths.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Its that extreme that they are trying to stop, so yes thats what the argument is based on of course.

Just like my argument against handguns being legal is based on the extreme case where someone takes one and uses it to kill someone.

KregRS

So where is this argument then? Haven't seen it in the papers or news yet. And as for dropping my fag while driving etc, only done it once, and as for actually it while driving, its pretty easy really, doesn't take up any of my concentration unlike chatting on the phone does.

So this topic really is complete and utter bollocks.

Ratty

iTrader: (1)

So Chip if we ban everyone from going over 5mph no one will ever die in a car again, except from natural causes

Unless we want a sanitized world then acceptable loses have to be incurred

Chip

iTrader: (3)

That would be true, but it would cause massive hardship to people as well, and impact hugely on the way they live their life.

Take myself for example, I work nearly 200 miles from where I live, so it would be a 40 hour journey each way.

Therefore I couldnt do that job anymore.


Laws shouldnt impact on people's lives to that extent which is why there isnt such a law in place, because people like myself can put forward a reasoned argument as to why its a bad idea to have the 5mph law.

A reasoned smokers argument supporting the plus side of driving whilst smoking though I havent seen.

Ratty

iTrader: (1)

And you've put no data forward to say there IS a problem, thus you are advocating a law based on personal assumption, that impacts on whether people choose to smoke or not without any due cause

Chip

iTrader: (3)

I havent got any official data to give you, only my personal experience that Ive already mentioned that ive seen the driving standards of people detoriate when smoking while driving (most notabley when dropping a cigarette onto their lap)

Just like I have NO data to show that beating someone around the head for 3 hours with a large frozen turkey may kill them, but im still glad thats illegal as I have some common sense and can see the possible effects of it (such as possible death and/or ruining lunch)

Ratty

iTrader: (1)

So you've seen the effects of someone dropping a fag and live to tell the tale

I've seen standards drop just by having kids in a car, maybe they should be put into sound proof boxes

Sorry didn't mean to be sarcastic but we will have to agree to disagree on this as the only accidents I've ever had where whilst I had quit smoking

Chip

iTrader: (3)

I have indeed seen it and lived to tell the tale, others arent so lucky.

The kids in soundproof boxes things I think is a bad idea as it would cause them excessive hardship, I fail to see how that in anyway relates to smoking while driving and have yet to see a reasoned argument as to why it shouldnt be banned despite keep taking the time to read your posts in case they include anything relevant to the subject or inteligent.

Ratty

iTrader: (1)

I fail to see any evidence apart from superstition that supports your so called intelligent argument

Ban all drinking of alcohol as its not needed and kills

Chip

iTrader: (3)

If you fail to be able to make the connection between things on fire landing on your lap and the potential for it to cause an accident, its only cause you choose not to see it.


I would happily vote for a government that made alcohol illegal, I genuiunely think the world would be a more pleasant place without it.

I also think people's civil liberties would be MORE in tact, as there would be so much less fighting in the streets on nights out that people would feel less pressed into staying at home in order to avoid it.

Ratty

iTrader: (1)

No, I fail to a sensible argument based upon sound data, rollups could never burn you unless your sat in petrol. Even straights would have trouble unless your wearing just a thong

Mine you I've never dropped a fag in 15yrs (too tight )

Well campaign for that and make a difference as campaigning to ban smoking in cars is waste of effort when you've not even shown us that there is a problem

RS500/364

i skipped a few things on page to but

i had to comment a crap bar i work at just been refurbished

was a bit quite 4 weeks ago
now its fine

THINK ABOUT THE PEOPLE DONT SMOKE THAT CAN NOW GO TO A CLEAN BAR CHAT DRINK AND NOT GET CANCER SO EASY

I HATE SMOKING BUT THE JOB MAKES ME A 2ND HAND SMOKER

AND MOST PEPOPLE DONT MIND POPING OUT FOR A FAG

AND THE GOVERMENT WONT LOSE A THING WHY BECAUSE THE FINES WILL MAKE MORE AND STILL FUC US ALL !!

Ratty

iTrader: (1)

Chip I do see your point, someone drops a fag and panics, but it no different to a bee/wasp coming in the window and someone panicking

RS500/364

ALSO
MOBILE SHOULD GET A BAN WHY BLUETOOTH Ł20

AND I HAD A CRASH IN THE REAR WHILE IN TRAFFIC BECAUSE OF ONE !!

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Ive just told you why there is a problem, the fact you refuse to acknowledge it doesnt effect if its true.

I havent seen you show me any data that it should be illegal to beat people to death with frozen turkeys, but im not going to argue against it if someone says its right that its illegal as I can use my own inteligence to see why its a risk to life, its not my fault if you cant do so with fags and driving.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

I agree, thats also potentially dangerous, but rather more difficult to legislate against, well short of banning driving with your window open, but that has potential dangers of its own on hot days in cars with no aircon of course.

Ratty

iTrader: (1)

Beating someone to death with anything is illegal

You have no evidence that smoking whilst driving is a problem and thus should be banned

Chip

iTrader: (3)

I have the evidence collected with my own eyes when someone driving a car I was in whilist smoking ended up swerving violently across the road when a cigarette dropped into his lap, luckily there was no one coming the other way at the time, if there was then it would have been a serious accident.

Thats not much evidence, but then ive not spent much time collecting it, it of course also isnt NO evidence like you are claiming, Im confident though that when people conduct bigger studys than the ones ive conducted (unintentionally based on my limited experience of being passenger to smokers) they will find similar.

In fact I wouldnt be surprised if such data already exists, but Ive not got access to it if it does.

gym-rst

So i take it the will also be adding in a section for all the Lady drivers who put make up on whilst driving about how distracting it can be !!!!!!!

Chip

iTrader: (3)

If that isnt illegal it certainly should be.

Ratty

iTrader: (1)

You cannot ban everything in life based on a single experience, I'm sure that radio's, sat nav cause as many incidences

Bee/wasp etc as I've stated, stones hitting screens etc this is part of the risk we take when driving

We could stop windows from opening, ban radios, sat nav, smoking, sound proof the rear (if you don't like kids in boxes), then what, where does it end?

Chip

iTrader: (3)

The thing is though, that sat navs also PREVENT accidents, as people who arent lost are concentrating more on safe driving itself and less on trying to work out which way to go, so again unlike fags there is a counter argument.

I see potentially a big safety downside to people smoking while driving, and no upside to it at all, so I dont think its comparable to satnav.

you STILL have not actually put forward any case as to why it shouldnt be banned, you have merely tried to point the finger at other things that perhaps should be too.

gym-rst

My thoughts exactly mate seen a wife today coming the other way driving an ML putting eyeliner on and it was on a 40mph road

Ratty

iTrader: (1)

People have driven into rivers following sat nav

Until there is proof smoking causes MORE accidents than any of the other distractions then why should it be banned if they are acceptable and preventable

How do you police it if the passenger is smoking?

Sexy women walking down the roads have caused accidents, so should they be forced to cover up?

People do things because they enjoy it, sometimes these things have a risk associated with it, within society we must judge if the risk is acceptable, to you this is not but to others it is. Once the evidence persuades the majority then a law will or wont be passed until then the argument it pointless

You enjoy track/race days and people have been killed at these events, they serve no purpose other than entertainment but society accepts them

S1rst

Of course it does, as 99% of smokers flick the tab end out regardless of whether someones behind them or not!!!!

Fair enough the statistics may not show a great number of accidents caused by smoking but you can guarentee that loads will have been down to smoking that they havnt admitted too.

And to say changing the radio station is as bad as smoking is just ridiculous.

How many smokers will admit that they've had a scarey moment because theyve dropped their fag in their car???

If it saves one accident and it has no posatives, then surely theres no reason why it shouldnt be banned?

S1rst

That IS illegal. Driving without due care and attention.

Ratty

iTrader: (1)

3 died in this accident due to driver losing control whilst changing the radio station.

S1rst

http://www.safermotoring.co.uk/Drink...enDriving.html

There you go mate. It actually states that it does cause accidents and maybe this is part of the reason for the ban whilst driving in company vehicles.

Ive never actually seen anyone lose concerntration whilst changing the radio channel, but i have seen people swerve etc as a result of smoking.

Just for the record, part of the reason why id like to see it banned is to stop the idiots flicking the tabs ends out the window at you.

richm

What happens when you finish your fag?? ....... does it just evaporate?

oh, and please don't say chuck it out of the window, that is THE one best reason to stop smoking in cars

S1rst

Ratty

Here you go mate, ive found a better one. Now this has got to be enough evidence for you....

http://www.ash.org.nz/pdf/Smoking/He...ving0504MP.pdf

And heres a survey done in the UK...............

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/rtrs/200705...g-fa6b408.html

Terry Tibbs

Oh do me a favour, so my 1 fag or so a day thrown out the window is going to aid pollution in such a way that the world is thrown into a violent spin of contamination and we all get the rage virus.

Its a cigarette, get over yourselves. 50 years ago this wasn't a problem, why the fuck should it be now. We're British and are heading up the gangway to being a bunch of cotten wool clad monkeys doing whatever the man says.

Such a rediculous argument with extemists pushing forward the most invalid points that are taken to the degree of world collapse.

People need to lay off of smokers. I'm just about to stop due to a career choice and no longer enjoying it but these arguments are stupid. Next people will no longer be allowed to smoke in their homes and in their gardens.

Ratty

iTrader: (1)

Nothing in the official gov figures on smoking, though driving into the sea made up for 17 accidents

http://www.transport.govt.nz/assets/...ualty-2003.pdf

Surveys judge opinions not facts, at no point have I stated that accidents don't occur, merely that this is being blown all out of proportion

I'm off for a drive with a fag, might even smoke afterwards

Lee Reynolds

Not read the whole thread but scanned it..

Personally i think it should be banned like eating is......

Now, ive seen a few comments about the smoking ban too. I CANNOT wait while it kicks in.
There has now been a few pubs in barnsley smoke free for a while, and these pubs are by far the busiest So thats puts a stop on shit like saying pubs will be empty... Yes, theres never no cunt out in ireland is there

I really think there are people that dont go out drinking so much because of the smoke, and will go out more after the ban We try to avoid the pubs in town which we know tend to be smokier than others...

ROLL ON JULY 1st.....dirty cunts