Hope he gets the high 11's he's aiming for!

 

I know of a stock zetec that made 286 bhp with just a thicker head gasket, some different manifolds and a GT28rs. Total cost including the turbo... about a grand.

Try getting that out of a CVH for a grand!! How can you say the performance gap isn't that big???

 

What was the football one i read the other day???

 

Like playing without boots mate.



Although the full one I posted ages ago was:

Going drag racing without nitrous is like playing football without boots, and if you have no turbo either, its like playing with your pants pulled down round your ankles as well

 

it was this gem from my post on VS martin

 

CVH blinkers mate, available through the RSOC in a variety of colours and styles.

 

 

So true!

I once had an argument with someone on here, and they claimed their 300 bhp CVH would be faster than a 300 bhp zetec??

He couldn't tell me why... it just would be!

Apart from the fact 300 bhp is 300 bhp, i also mentioned the zetec having 400cc more capacity and that i expected it would have more torque and a better spread of it.

This chap worked for a well known tuners so it shows how CVH blinkered ford people really are.

 

I think they assume the world is fair, and that cause its fucking hardwork to get a piece of crap old CVH engine upto 300bhp that the rules of a fair world dictate it will be better than a Zetec 300bhp engine that is easier to make.

The reality (as proved by mid 12 sub 300bhp novas and corsas frequently) is of course EXACTLY the opposite and a 300bhp zetec would wipe the floor with a 300bhp CVH!

 

What engines are they using in the corsa's, nova's?? can I safely assume its the 2.0 GTE 16v and not the 1.0 eco tech that comes in corsa's

 

Yes mate, mainly the redtop as found in the astra/cav/calibra etc

 

mainly the redtops??? how many different colours are there (rocker cover tops yes)?? and whats the difference?

 

Just thinking outside the box here (or rather inside it lol), is it anything to do with gearboxes. 1st gear in my S1 was farkin useless. Now we are all running pretty much the same boxes. What are 1st, 2nd like in a Vaux or Renault? Would changing 1st or 2nd ratios work better?

 

all the xe's (16v gte, cav gsi engines) are called redtops dunno why, they just are, the LET's (cav turbo, calibra turbo engines) are redtops also but with a turbo bolted on

 

Redtop is just a nickname for the XE mate.

Some of the redtops have black tops

 

some people say its all about power and how its delivered, some people say its all about the magic of r5/nova/corsa suspension setups.......there is no mystery at all lads

in 2005 i went to santa pod to have my first go ever, built the engine myself, ill give u the specs now to judge for yourself

slightly ported head
standard crank
standard rods
standard pistons
standard valves
very mild cam(only 270c)
standard carb with bigger jet
standard inlet and outlet manifolds
gt28rs turbo with 0.63 turbine side
2.5inch downpipe and side exit
rs500 sized intercooler

thats it

the car was not stripped out, had a rollcage and weighed 850kg plus 100kg for driver

the car was roughly 240bhp but as we were trying the gt28rs as an experiement it did not hit full boost(28psi) till 5200rpm and ran out of power at 6500rpm......so no big spread of torque, just a laggy peaky machine.

the car had an open diff, standard gearbox and just a set of konis with 35mm drop.

on my first ever run ever i ran a 12.9 at 106 at 20psi of boost

i then had a few problems but upped the boost(very hot day) to 28psi and ran 12.6 at 111mph.......the car was not setup for drag at all, im sure with the things i want to do it would have run low 12s high 11s with no power increases

if u want to see how to properly run qtr times i suggest u log into honda-tech.com and have a good read at them guys.....eg honda civic...1100kg with 320bhp running 11s all the time, just shows wot can be done.


im my opinion a mk2 fiesta weighing about 800kg with zetec turbo with about 260bhp should piss mid 12s all day long, if u cant manage that then theres something wrong with u guys

flame suited engaged

 

Doesnt prove fuck all except that novas and corsas have better traction if you look at the 60ft and terminal times

fuck all to do with the engine

 

PMSL

So the power delivery of the engine has "fuck all" to do with your ability to lay down power off the line?

Righty oh then, thanks for the "RSOC own brand physics" lesson




you really havent got a CLUE about "hooking up" off the line have you mate?

 

So on the nova/corsa route apart from the engine/box what suspension mods etc are used Chip for the great traction/60ft times?

Silly question i guess but do they suffer the seriously shitty torque steer that most erst suffer?

 

Ok then so a 250 bhp LET in a standardish ERST will hit 12's then?

Riiiiiight

Its the shit erst chassis and box , fuck all to do with the engines, torque curves etc. A cvh/zetec etc can and have been tuned and mapped with nice progressive power delivery, its hardly fucking genius to spec that

 

Move over everyone! 21.4 second Mini here! Fuck CVH's, Fuck Zetecs, Fuck YB's Fuck Everything!!! Actually Fuck turbos! N/A IS the way forward...

You all need a 998cc A-Series engines!

 

Most of the novas you see in the 12s are on standard suspension other than just a cheap set of aftermarket shocks and springs S2Martin, ive not seen ANY yet with anything that I would call drag specific setups, other than maybe a couple of bits of wood hammered into the rear springs to stop weight transfer.

 

Sorry thats just a nonsense, mk2 astras, corsas, novas, mk3 astras, have ALL done 12s on a LET and standard chassis setup.

surely the rs1600i / rs turbo / mk3 escort bits available readily cant be THAT much shitter than a vuaxhall nova from a chassis/suspension point of view?

 

exactly, r5s run on torsion bars lol, and theres nothing special about them at all, its just we dont think top speeds are important, we like drag better.

if including driver its nearly 1000kg with 240bhp i can do it on my first ever go why cant ford boys, im sure there are some decent enough drivers between u

 

I'll bet it is down to the chassis and gearbox. The 0-60ft and terminal times of loads of e/frst's would confirm this no problem

 

I mentioned gearboxes further up and no one commented.

 

The gearing isnt significantly different between the LET and the RST box.



You keep banging on about chassis setups on the 60ft as if you think that the 60ft isnt effected by the engine!

You really are TOTALLY missing the point.

Its the horrible power delivery thats the problem on a 300bhp CVH!

 

MINE SEEMS OK ON POWER DELIVERY ups caps lock i carnt complain my torque curve is very flat 2 holds on to it well dunno i ran a 13.7 on my first ever go with 250 hp i think it was on mfi best was 13.5 on mfi so they arnt that bad a set up it was on konis thats all ????????? my car is more a track car than anythin elso not set up for drag at all might be nice to c if it was just set up for that what it may do dunno ? wheres the wooden blocks etc lol
p.s i recon its the 60 ft where its won or lost IMO

 

PMSL @ "I reckon the 60ft is where its won or lost"

No shit sherlock



The problem that most of the RST lads ive seen running up the qaurter have is the "on/off" delivery, they try and pull away without much throttle and the things bogs down, but the moment it comes on boost it lights up the tyres instead, and its impossible to balance it on the very narrow point of the curve in between.

Im sure a decent zetec build could get round this.

 

Quote:

PMSL @ "I reckon the 60ft is where its won or lost"

No shit sherlock

Theres no need to talk down to me with that attitude ,it seems to me (maybe im the only 1) that you seem to think not everyone is as smart as you think you are ,most are looking for information and maybe stating the obvious is sometime new news.

 

Tim, no offence intended, it was purely humour, and I can only apologise if that didnt come across well when you read it.

You are of course totally correct that the first 60ft most certainly IS the most important bit of the track.

 

my mistake then in the ass for me then

 

right. so the astra gte 16v i had is a LET??? and i take it these are very good engines

 

Rob's car (the red nova on the left in my sig, lol) manages to get well into the 12s with only a 115mph terminal because of the sheer level of control he has over exactly how much power is delivered as he pulls away.

He got a 2.0 60ft on that run, which is actually very good for what is NOT a drag car, he has made NO mods from his entirely trackday orientated car other than fit a nitrous kit.

No special chassis mods. FAR too much weight from the heavy cage, no changes to antirollbar setup or anything.


But he has 194bhp N/A which means he can use the throttle to determine the EXACT amount of power he has instantly at any given point during the launch, on a turbo car, and particuarly a 1600cc 8v turbo one with 300bhp, you dont get the chance to do that unless you are into the world of ALS and LC

Then when its hooked up off gas, we feed the gas in slowly so as not to brake traction again, and then once its moving along, it just gets hit with everything we have to through at it (300bhp+)

 

Its an XE, the LET is the turbo variant.


The engine codes are as follows:

C - catalyst
20 - 2.0 litres
L - low compression
E - fuel injection
T - turbo



C - catalyst
20 - 2.0 litres
X - high compression
E - fuel injection



Hope that makes sense!

Basically the LET is an XE with a turbo bolted onto it and some lower CR pistons, its otherwise largely the same engine, the block/crank/rods/head are all interchangeable

 

great help mate. thanx

what would be the preferable engine? or would it depend on wha you want from the car?

 

No CVH blinkers here at all. I have no doubt u can get more from a Zetec. The power delivery is not as horrendous on big power cvh as some people make out.

As far as i know - and Tim can correct me - he did 295hp on a semi finished map the day before he did a 12.7 - at 114mph. That is fast. Like the majority of RST owners, the quater isn't taken that seriously - its more about fun on the road, and track. The 1/4 is a good laugh, i enjoy it - but im not really fussed if the car doesn't launch that hard. It puts so much strain on the drive train, and in everyday driving it never happens. For me i'd rather be able to accelerate hard at dual carriage way speeds than from the lights.

My point is this: You have to change the engine in the Nova to go fast - u dont in the RST. Plus - there is an engine to swap to readily avialable for the Nova - there isn't for the RS. We have the Zetec, which you need to build yourself (or pay somone to do it) - u cannot just drop it in. You need custom management, modded manifolds, modded pistons etc. You dont need any of that for a vaux. So for the RS, u are spending more time and effort for less gain. Therefore, people are more reluctant to goto the trouble of doing it IMO.

If you are comparing Escorts to Novas - the Escort is carrying a significant weight penalty. What might be interesting is to compare the speed over the last 1/8th mile.

If i were to drag a fwd ford (totally no interest in doing so at the moment) - i would use a mk1/mk2 Fiesta with a zetec - just like Stu is doing - so good luck mate And Chip - it's cool ur helping him out to do it Roll on the 11's

 

I dont know if we will see 11s on Stu's fiesta, I suspect not, but I am as confident we will see 12s from it as I was when I told Rob on saturday that he WOULD run a 12 the day before he did so.

Thats assuming that Stu ever finishes it though of course, I cant nitrous a half finished car lmao

 

I think this situation will be rectified by a few people this year rs drivers are only just understanding about drag racing in general.
How many fwd fords use nitrous not many this may not be so much of an issue with the zetecs but the big power cvh with there big laggy turbos it’s a must..
I always thought having sticky tires was the key but wheel size is a large part of it.
And defiantly our power delivery doesn’t help much I remember a mkll golf 1.8 20v turbo with nitrous running 11s he was running toyo r888 15” tires but this 1.8 20v have a very smooth power delivery.
Tim rs turbo one of the latest to do 12s quarters with the help of nitrous he does hook up well with minimal wheel spin.
I hope to be doing constantly low 12s once I acquirer some more bits to help me launch plus when my mapping is completed.