Choosing your tuner.
20-09-2004, 01:22 PM
#41
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From Karls comments I believe him to be genuinely interested in the end product he gives the customer! However, tuners are in the business for one reason - earning a living. Some have got a different ratio of work done per pound made though. It's all down to how much money they want to make. Some want quick profit for least amount of work done! Some have less emphasis on customer satisfaction. You have to learn by your mistakes and other peoples who you go to!
20-09-2004, 01:22 PM
#42
Norris Motorsport
Steve,
I agree with your comment's and don't offer my engine as a product you can buy.
I try to stay clear of engines beyond 550bhp, because they are unreliable on the grand scale of things. The internet has led people into beleiving that everyone can afford to buy such an engine and I'm affraid this is very misleading.
I point blank refuse to build certain engines for people, because I know it will lead to a whole load of hassle. The time and effort that goes into building a "glory" engine (thats what I call special one offs) really is'nt worth the profit. I find that by sticking with what I consider my bread and butter, gives me the least hassle and optimises what time I do have!
I don't have the time to help folk out with their home grown projects searching for 700bhp on a shoestring budget, and thus I have a particular market I cater for and to be honest I'm happy with what I do!
I agree with your comment's and don't offer my engine as a product you can buy.
I try to stay clear of engines beyond 550bhp, because they are unreliable on the grand scale of things. The internet has led people into beleiving that everyone can afford to buy such an engine and I'm affraid this is very misleading.
I point blank refuse to build certain engines for people, because I know it will lead to a whole load of hassle. The time and effort that goes into building a "glory" engine (thats what I call special one offs) really is'nt worth the profit. I find that by sticking with what I consider my bread and butter, gives me the least hassle and optimises what time I do have!
I don't have the time to help folk out with their home grown projects searching for 700bhp on a shoestring budget, and thus I have a particular market I cater for and to be honest I'm happy with what I do!
20-09-2004, 01:24 PM
#43
DEYTUKURJERBS
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by jock
but to pick up on what Steve Said i understand his comments towards your engine as you have not proved it ina public manner, such as for all to see, now i know you say that you do not offer this conversion but then say you would love somebody to come to you with a blank cheque book, well if i came to you with that cheque book would you build me a similar engine to yours ????? What do you have to hide from your conversion, Mark and Rod have gone out with theres and put graphs up for all to see, you say yours makes more power with out the NO2 quote un-quote. As an engineer that is fair to be considered Pioneering i would think that it is in your intrests to let it be know what you can do.
I know where my money would go, the proven tuner. (its the butt of a lot of jokes here, but when moneys involved, proof wins over talk every time)
EDIT- Jus to say, very good last post by Karl, and as he says HE doesnt offer conversions over 550bhp himself, so infact not proving his OWN car isnt an issue, so fair enough
But ignoring specific tuners (as wasnt intended at Karl or anyone)! Its obvious to me the tuner whod get my money out of 2 for a similar conversion would be the one who has proven the car does what he says, not one that just says what it should do.
20-09-2004, 01:26 PM
#45
Re: Choosing your tuner.
Originally Posted by Itsmeagain
If you wanted a mental engine made for your RS, how would you choose your tuner?
Originally Posted by Itsmeagain
How would you know the spec youve paid for is REALLY what you got?
1) You can call in to view the build ANYTIME.
2) You will recieve with your invoice, an extensive Engine build CD with full pictorial history of all stages of build and a document showing specifications of the build.
Everyone does this simple thing though right?
Other wise peeps could be powerwashing and polishing up shonky breakers yard YB lumps and selling em for £6K 
Originally Posted by Itsmeagain
Personally id want (BEFORE id paid owt) to see either RR/Dyno figs or ideally performance figs to show its not all talk and claims.
Originally Posted by Itsmeagain
And RR numbers that arnt the power you want, but the tuner says if the boost/revs/weather was different youd have that power, howd you know thats true? Madness IMO.
Using rollers at all is madness in reality as theres only a few i would trust to be close. That said, if an engine is put on rollers and the power CURVE (Not figures) is not as i expect, i will be wanting to have the vehicle to investigate it. I believe the way you deal with a problem is more important than what teh initial problem was.
Originally Posted by Itsmeagain
RRs, esp flywheel figures are very random IMO, engine dyno is ok, obv you wont get that in car (esp when you put on a 
3" zorst on a 500+bhp car), but its close enough.
Performance figures is ideal tho, you know the saying "The Black Dyno never lies..."
3" zorst on a 500+bhp car), but its close enough.Performance figures is ideal tho, you know the saying "The Black Dyno never lies..."
"If i give you a graph showing 800Bhp, but it feels slow to you on teh road, will you still be happy?" No-one has ever replied "yes" to date
Originally Posted by Itsmeagain
Its always kind of a leap of faith with giving money to a tuner, but some leaps are small, but some are fookin grand canyon, and thats just crazy.
Originally Posted by Itsmeagain
I think thats why someone DOES prove something they turn into arrogant childish goons which isnt good either, but at least you got a REAL idea of where your moneys going.
Originally Posted by Itsmeagain
I can sooo see this becoming an argument
Edited to say: I cant believe how many posts this has had since i started trying to reply to this but was too busy with work... It had none
20-09-2004, 01:28 PM
#46
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Id choose a tuner that has made the effort to build cars and use them to prove what they can achieve. At the end of the day there so many out there its a hard choice. Nice work shop and lots of snap on tools doesnt mean they are any good.
Ive had exspectations of places but when ive been there they arent all glitz and glamour but have had proven times with cars etc.
It like if ferrari built a car they said did 300mph youd want to see it proved before u buy it, and if i wanted a 200mph cos id want the same done
Ive had exspectations of places but when ive been there they arent all glitz and glamour but have had proven times with cars etc.
It like if ferrari built a car they said did 300mph youd want to see it proved before u buy it, and if i wanted a 200mph cos id want the same done
20-09-2004, 01:32 PM
#47
Norris Motorsport
Jock,
My own engine is a test bed for development. I would bet my bottom dollar that rod's engine (and similar 600bhp+) won't be an every day car. Mine is, and thats why I continually strive to improve its reliability.
I could quite easily turn around and go run the car at brunters tomorrow. If it managed 190mph there what does that prove to me. Nothing.
All it is, is something for folk to chat about, perhaps even argue over.
When I'm finally finished with my own car and happy that not one thing can be improved upon then I'm sure I'll do some brunters testing. until such time the development continues as and when time and money permit!
My goal is not about producing the most bhp, it is about producing a product that is powerfull, reliable and above all usable and affordable to the man in the street! If you can't produce this, then there's little point in producing an engine unless specifically targetted for competion vehicles only!
My own engine is a test bed for development. I would bet my bottom dollar that rod's engine (and similar 600bhp+) won't be an every day car. Mine is, and thats why I continually strive to improve its reliability.
I could quite easily turn around and go run the car at brunters tomorrow. If it managed 190mph there what does that prove to me. Nothing.
All it is, is something for folk to chat about, perhaps even argue over.
When I'm finally finished with my own car and happy that not one thing can be improved upon then I'm sure I'll do some brunters testing. until such time the development continues as and when time and money permit!
My goal is not about producing the most bhp, it is about producing a product that is powerfull, reliable and above all usable and affordable to the man in the street! If you can't produce this, then there's little point in producing an engine unless specifically targetted for competion vehicles only!
20-09-2004, 01:33 PM
#49
PassionFord Post Whore!!
Re: Choosing your tuner.
Originally Posted by Stu @ M Developments
Originally Posted by Itsmeagain
If you wanted a mental engine made for your RS, how would you choose your tuner?
Originally Posted by Stu @ M Developments
Originally Posted by Itsmeagain
How would you know the spec youve paid for is REALLY what you got?
1) You can call in to view the build ANYTIME.
2) You will recieve with your invoice, an extensive Engine build CD with full pictorial history of all stages of build and a document showing specifications of the build.
Originally Posted by Stu @ M Developments
Everyone does this simple thing though right? Other wise peeps could be powerwashing and polishing up shonky breakers yard YB lumps and selling em for £6K
Other wise peeps could be powerwashing and polishing up shonky breakers yard YB lumps and selling em for £6K
Originally Posted by Stu @ M Developments
Originally Posted by Itsmeagain
I can sooo see this becoming an argument
Mike
20-09-2004, 02:05 PM
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I use myself ...getting a dab hand at it IMO,i have undressed my engine more times than i have my girlfriend ROFL
I have used A1 Rally....heard they had a good rep.
Used BSW....didnt listen to the shit they got..used em as they were close and never left my car so was always watching which ensures a good job...LOL.
*If* i was going to use a tuner nowadays...i'd go to Mark Shead/Paul Hills without a doubt....the most helpful 2 tuners around I can always grab advice from these guys....
Lets make it MORE interesting the tuners i WOULDNT use :-
Karl...after last night he displayed his young age in trying to tussle with Mark...displaying a real immaturity and up his own arse attitude
Who is the NUMBER one tuner??????...Gotta be Mark Shead...Jullian Godfrey...both have produced what i call the BEST....no bollocks from these guys
...getting a dab hand at it IMO,i have undressed my engine more times than i have my girlfriend ROFL I have used A1 Rally....heard they had a good rep.
Used BSW....didnt listen to the shit they got..used em as they were close and never left my car so was always watching which ensures a good job...LOL.
*If* i was going to use a tuner nowadays...i'd go to Mark Shead/Paul Hills without a doubt....the most helpful 2 tuners around
I can always grab advice from these guys....Lets make it MORE interesting the tuners i WOULDNT use :-
Karl...after last night he displayed his young age in trying to tussle with Mark...displaying a real immaturity and up his own arse attitude
Who is the NUMBER one tuner??????...Gotta be Mark Shead...Jullian Godfrey...both have produced what i call the BEST....no bollocks from these guys
20-09-2004, 02:11 PM
#56
Norris Motorsport
Phil,
pot calling the kettle black. Mark stated that he considered himself a super tuner by what he had proved, and Rod stated he considered Mark to be better than myself.
I'm fine with this, but you can hardly call me childish, considering their comments.
But don't worry tis only t'internet, and in reality makes shite all difference what anyone thinks! LOL
pot calling the kettle black. Mark stated that he considered himself a super tuner by what he had proved, and Rod stated he considered Mark to be better than myself.
I'm fine with this, but you can hardly call me childish, considering their comments.
But don't worry tis only t'internet, and in reality makes shite all difference what anyone thinks! LOL
20-09-2004, 02:16 PM
#58
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On the contary Karl........Mark CAN say he is a super tuner as he HAS proved it.
NO IMA RACING DONT HAVE TO PROVE SHIT....CAUSE A I ANIT A TUNER AND B MY CAR WOULD BLOW UP
So dont say that to ME...
NO IMA RACING DONT HAVE TO PROVE SHIT....CAUSE A
I ANIT A TUNER AND B MY CAR WOULD BLOW UP So dont say that to ME...
20-09-2004, 03:26 PM
#64
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Originally Posted by jock
is there a link to last nights thread i really would love to read it and see both sides
Mike
Mike
https://passionford.com/forum/viewto...=asc&start=200
20-09-2004, 03:37 PM
#65
Originally Posted by Porkie
Stu, are you a Supertuner? Hope so coz if not then I will have to stop listening to you as well 
Im just an honest guy that loves performance cars who took it upon himself to learn how they work down to the last minor detail so that i can make them do what i, and more importantly, you, want them to do.
Im not a super anything im afraid, although i do class myself as a perfectionist if thats enough to win your telephone call? Hope so.
20-09-2004, 03:44 PM
#69
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I chose Julian Godfrey as a few mates of mine had used him and were very happy with the results.
So I went down to see him and everyone there was very freindly indeed and certainly know there stuff.
Have always had good service from them and good results, and more than welcome to give me advice when i need it.
Was also offered a trip to norway this year with free accomodation lol but didnt go due to the cossie being of the road.
Will always use him
plus the added bonus that he is only about 45mins from me
So I went down to see him and everyone there was very freindly indeed and certainly know there stuff.
Have always had good service from them and good results, and more than welcome to give me advice when i need it.
Was also offered a trip to norway this year with free accomodation lol but didnt go due to the cossie being of the road.
Will always use him
plus the added bonus that he is only about 45mins from me
20-09-2004, 03:44 PM
#70
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You ford bunch are a funny lot. In the vauxhall tuning world untill recently we only had the choice of fitting a set of chips to the standard moronic ecu and fitting a upgraded KKK26 to a LET engine. We cud only wish for someone who had just half the knowledge of Mark or Karl so why dont you all stop your bitching and sniping and just be grateful you have people who are very good at doing what they do? Rick
20-09-2004, 03:47 PM
#72
Originally Posted by RANJ
karl
rods is a road car
rods is a road car
Used at the weekends & trips to all the shows. Its deffo a road car just a 200mph one.
Rod
20-09-2004, 03:50 PM
#74
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I think you should choose you tuner very carefully, it's alright paying a cheap price but when it goes wrong it's the after sales service what counts.
you don't want to end up with a car what is unreliable
Dave.
you don't want to end up with a car what is unreliable
Dave.
20-09-2004, 03:53 PM
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fook me rod get over yourself..how many times do you want to mention that ur shed did 200mph..yeah well done a fantastic achievement but give it a rest ..(cue the madette arse lickers )... 
but give it a rest ..(cue the madette arse lickers )...
20-09-2004, 03:57 PM
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i have to say that i am put off taking mine to stu or karl. mainly because after talking to karl a few times i know he is a perfectionist!
maybe 1 day when i get a car worth taking to a place like theirs then i might re-consider!
maybe 1 day when i get a car worth taking to a place like theirs then i might re-consider!
20-09-2004, 04:01 PM
#77
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Originally Posted by JAP CRAP
Harvey Gibbs.
Would have been A1 rallysport but I wasnt happy with the customer service I got from them even though I know they are brilliant at what they do. Mike rainbird steered me towards SCS buy giving me confidence in their work and when I spoke to them they seemed a lot more organised, which reassured me enough to get the work done there.
They are more expensive though
I did try and obtain quotes from Reyland. Martin was busy and I didnt have the patients to wait, lol, but would of been more than happy to use him
Would also be more than happy to use Mark Shead or Stu (if I could afford his take away whilst mapping bill ) .
Considered Karl Norris but wouldnt use him because I hate his attitude to be honest IMO
Would have been A1 rallysport but I wasnt happy with the customer service I got from them even though I know they are brilliant at what they do. Mike rainbird steered me towards SCS buy giving me confidence in their work and when I spoke to them they seemed a lot more organised, which reassured me enough to get the work done there.
They are more expensive though
I did try and obtain quotes from Reyland. Martin was busy and I didnt have the patients to wait, lol, but would of been more than happy to use him
Would also be more than happy to use Mark Shead or Stu (if I could afford his take away whilst mapping bill
) . Considered Karl Norris but wouldnt use him because I hate his attitude to be honest IMO
then i used harvey gibbs good price and had two engines build by him SHIT THE WORD BLAMED LACK OF OIL AFTER 1500 MILES
WELL ON THE WAY HOME FROM WHEN HE 1ST BUILT IT IT PISS OIL EVERY WERE I HAD KEPT CHECKING IT AND TAKE IT BACK THE NEXT DAY NO WAY WOULD I LET HARVEY NEAR MY BLOCKS AGAIN 
A1 RALLYSPORT WELL took the 500 up there and the saff
the saff was put back to stage 1 and it flys 158 top speed 4x4 i think it great
but the next person is ahmed
i mean he done the development with ford so i will find out
i would use KARL,STU OR ML AS MATT IS A GREAT BLOKE BUT I NEED SOMEONE THAT DOES THE PECTEL AND NOT MANY DO
MAYBE I USE KARL FOR THE SAFF WHEN I REBUILD IT AFTER THE 500 DONE just need it mapped
I HAVE SPENT £10K SINCE MY 1ST COSWORTH AND I WILL USE THE LAST ENGINE BUILDER I USED AND THAT IS NOT 1 OF THE ABOVE COST ME £2900 FOR FULL REBUILD AND BALANCING WERE HARVY CHARGED £2900 FOR A STANDARD REBUILD
20-09-2004, 04:02 PM
#78
Originally Posted by mattbibs
i have to say that i am put off taking mine to stu or karl. mainly because after talking to karl a few times i know he is a perfectionist!
maybe 1 day when i get a car worth taking to a place like theirs then i might re-consider!
maybe 1 day when i get a car worth taking to a place like theirs then i might re-consider!
Regardless of what you drive i like to think i can give you an honest unbiased advice on the way forward to achieve your goals within your budget, be that more horsepower or simply better running or economy.
20-09-2004, 04:07 PM
#80
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how about with a totally shagged engine?
you probably dont make that impression on other people, but i like to think myself a bit of a perfectionist too. taking an oil burner to you for a set up would just be an embarrassment! like i say before, i'm waiting for a decent car before i visit the top tuners!
& having already been to harvey gibbs thats not saying he isnt one of the best tuners!
you probably dont make that impression on other people, but i like to think myself a bit of a perfectionist too. taking an oil burner to you for a set up would just be an embarrassment! like i say before, i'm waiting for a decent car before i visit the top tuners!
& having already been to harvey gibbs thats not saying he isnt one of the best tuners!