Hi guys

To save you reading - problem solved - related to dickhead user - namely me fucking up the wiring when I replaced the loom last week. I am a tool.

JJ







This is addressed at anyone who has fitted closed loop to their cars.

I have a 2wd cossie that I recently converted from L6 to L8. Amongst other things, the car was converted to closed loop.

I followed stus setup instructions, but when I do this, the engine runs way too lean when driving around off boost (ie TPS up to 20 degrees).

However, when the co screw is adjusted to a point where the car basically drives correctly, the idle becomes to rich. This implies that it isnt going into closed loop mode.

Can I please have ANY suggestions as to what can lead to any problems relating to Closed loop! I have tried 2 diff ecus and chips, and I am pretty convinced that it aint that. I have tried a completely different throttle body complete with diff TPS and ICV from a car we believe to be working correctly, so prob not that. Pressure tested the inlet, and no leaks up to 30 psi.

Help!

JJ

 

Define "way too lean" please.

 

in the 18's so much so infact it doesnt drive nicely at all ,

richen it up, it drives nice, and will cruise at a 14-15 afr , but runs 10-11afr at idle ,


jj correct me if im wrong!

 

Your water temps are above 70 ?

Im sure it needs to be above that before the closed loop works.

Steve.

 

yeah hot hot!! im sure the iaw software can confirm this JJ?

 

Fook!! That is lean!!

 

TPS, MAP and CTS are the only things that have an effect on the closed loop IIRC.

 

its strange cos if we set it so it cruses nicely, it doesnt seem to be in closed loop at idle,

im not sure its going in to closed loop at all, we are making the mixture correct at cruise, but the co isnt adjusting itself at all

new tps, new map,new loom, new chip, cts?

jj does the iaw show the narrow band sensor is working?

 

faulty lambda sensor? was it new?

it took me a few weeks and alot of head scratching to get mine done correctly.

mine currently runs at 0.5% CO at idle and drives spot on

dunno what that is in AFR?

 

pain in the arse thing is we were just starting to get somewhere and these things were next to check, as we had done most of the basic set up, then the turbo went pants

 

Hi guys,

Thanks to all for help

Currently on second lambda from stu - the aftermarket jobbies, not the ford ones

Iaw software confirms water temp well over 70 degrees

however doesn't confirm the closed loop functionality on l8. I have assumed it is working, but maybe faulty from new? seems doubtful

JJ

 

i can test the lamdba surge with a mulitimeter betwwen pin 1 + 2 ,worht checking

 

i justwonder if the chip will richen a tad at idle ,to avoid hunting, or picking up on the lambda surge?

 

what should the multimeter report? I will check before ripping the turbo off (might be smokey to get up to temp mind

JJ

 

i will surge up and down as the lamdba works, cant remember the figs its been so long 1.5 v, up to 9 or 10 i think?

but if you see a surge ,the lambda is working, so half way there! but this doesnt tell us if the ecu is using this info

 

Right - will try now.....


JJ

 

I can tell you just started it up....


in the distance, its all gone smokey


the sun give me back the sun.....im having a bbq

 

ROFL!

Right - found one issue - didnt get any voltage from the Pin 2. Weird! I decided to further investigate, and found that I had miswired the sensor.

Ryan very kindly incorporated a new loom for the lamda which I didnt have before (ie power and signal) .

I had wrongly assumed that the two black wires were power and earth, and that the single white wire was the signal. Turns out that one of the black wires was signal, and the other two powered the heater.

I have corrected the fault now in the wiring, testing the polarity to pin 2 with a voltmeter (what I should have done in the first place!)

Tested again, and got basically fuck all still from the Pin 2.

I checked the lambda and found it to be deeply coated in thick oil (somewhat unsurprisingly!)

But I wonder if attaching the leads the wrong way round has done damage to the sensor as well ? (cant see why it would, but seeing as it aint working......

I have presumed that the ECU hasnt been damaged by this - dont see how it would be, and car still runs right except the usual probs most of which predate the loom change which is when this error first occurred.;

Any thoughts?

JJ

 

Yes, that could have damaged the sensor.

 

Hopefully not the ECU though?

JJ

 

mmm, doesnt sound good, that will be the problem mate im sure!

with a mulitimeter connected to pin 1 and 2 you should see a rise and fall of voltage...

one of the pins is earth, and the other is signal from the lambda

 

I would guess that because the ECU was supplying the signal wire 12v it has probably fried the sensor - fortunately I have a spare, but I am reluctant to put it in the oil bath!!!!

JJ

 

yeah!!

i have a spare gen ford one to!

at least we have found a problem!

 

as you say you will have simply cooked the sensor, as it will have just supplied 12v to the signal rather than the live.

rule 1, always read the instructions

 

How many times during your many calls did i ask are you sure teh sensors wired up right and working? Guess why i asked? Cos lack of or incorrect lambda signal is signified by rich idle on my software, thats how i set it to work, so your first clue is failed MOT.

The instructions even told you what colours to wire up where! What were we saying about CuNTstomers only teh other day James?

It sounds like you have either grounded or applied power to teh signal generator, not to mention covered it in oil, so you may as well just buy a 3rd one.

I wonder what you were sending to pin 2 of your L8 then?!!?

 

Firstly, I would observe that this problem only arose after fitting the new loom, which means that our conversations about rich idle pre-date this.

Also, I would observe that the Chip that was causing the Det was causing Det from when it was very very first installed, and this predates the wiring fault by an even larger date! So to be fair, you are being a little harsh methinks!

I have identified that the wiring as of 1 week ago was as follows:-

The signal wire was receiving 13 volts. which means that Pin 2 was simply connected to a heater wire, and the other was just earth!

That said - lambda is without question most likely fucked - at least I have found one fault!

Stu - can you please arrange for a replacement to be sent to me - usual account

JJ

 

Unsure why you took it as harsh on a forum when on teh phone every day your keen to laugh and joke with me and admit that most of teh time your troubles are probably self inflicted!! Like your 0.6mm Phase sensor gap on another topic. Max allowed is 0.3mm. I had a giggle, as we do (did) on teh phone and now youi take offence!!

Oh well, on that note i am off to town away from Customers and Cars until Monday.

 

cos no-one likes being belittled in public stu!

 

im thinking may be you are not competant enought to be even thinking about this conversion let alone fitting it, and im not surprised about the way stu frased what he did, as he has obviously wasted alot of time with this customer, helping is one thing, taking the piss is another.

 

Sorry matey - no offense intended - I probably should have broken it up with some emoticons. Also, one of these situations that my wife tells me about when I open mouth (or in this case keyboard) before engaging brain to think that what I said may come off wrong!

You are absolutely correct - I didnt mean to take it out on your good self

I think that the two days of getting nowhere only to find that one of the major problems relates to my own idiotic self is a little more than I can bear!

Hope no hard feelings chap

And I am completely aware that the arse in this whole situation is me


JJ

 

Sorry - but I dotn know you. I am going to assume that you are talking about something you know nothing about. On that basis, please desist.

Regards

JJ

 

lol to u m8

 

Good point Ryan - Dont worry - I will beat myself up over this several times!

JJ

 

being as you posted your woes on an open public forum i see no problem with me replying, and from what i have read, and you dont have to be very clever to deduce that you have fooked this job up royally, and you alone, irrelavant of what condition your car was in before you took on this conversion, as i, as you quite rightly point out no nothing about this, but you did ask for people who know about closed loop to comment did you not ? and it seams i know considerably more than you do about this type of system.
i thank you, that is unles what you wrote was just lies about what you have done ?

 

and just for a little bit of info on you post, a narrow band sensor recieves nothing from the ecu on its signal wire, what it does do is sends a 0-1v signal to the ecu, so if you have sent it 12v , well done, you have just failed the instructions test [/u]

 

[quote="markk"]edited cos I dont want to get into an unnecessary disagreement.

 

i encounter people who know more than me everyday of my life pal, but becuae i have always had the ability to listen firstly to what people tell me is how i got to where iam today, and this is just typical passionford, i used to provide a lot of help and ideas to people on here, until one day you tell someone a good way or how to do something thats not what they want to hear, hey presto, i think i will call it 'passionford syndrome' the unabilty of people to understand whats being told to them

good luck

 

Thanks to all that have helped on this one!

Particularly thanks to Stu at MSD (a fountain of knowlege as always!!!), to Chip, and not least to Jtech for spending the day with me sorting bits and pieces!

Got some great progress on this overall - getting ever closer to restoring the car back to good working order

Regards

James

 

Turbo gone to those nice people at Turbo Technics for diagnosis and repair.

Fingers crossed that the warranty covers it!

New lambda ordered!

Perhaps I should be buying these in bulk

 

Hmm... but me and James talk on teh phone everyday and i class him more as a friend than a customer, so i expected him to laugh and maybe post a few embarrassed smileys, not take offence. Fact is though, since i accept you werent aware that we know each other, i see how you could have seen it as bellittleing.

As it happens, we have spoken today and all is well.