2wd Cosworth - Engine boffins help please
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2wd Cosworth - Engine boffins help please
Right its a bit long winded, but bear with me while i try and explain whats happening...
The car was taken off the road a few weeks back as the head was knackered, so i got a new head, which ive had ported and polished,
Put the car back together, with the t4 on it also, and appeared to be running perfectly with NO knocks or taps.
The car has now done 100miles, i have mainly been cruising, no severe thrashing, though i did give it a bit in 1st, 2nd and 3rd, and yet again, was still fine, but about 10mins after giving it a bit, it developed a " slight knock ".
At first i thought it sounded like the bottom end, but when i parked it up and listened closely under bonnet, when you rev it it sounds like its coming from the top end, on the exhaust side of the head.
Mate came round with a stethoscope, and we pinpointed a noise to the back 2 tappets on the exhaust side, so we replaced them, and put it back together, still the same. Replaced the oil and filter, and still no joy.
Still sounds like a tap coming from the top end, but when your driving it, it sounds like a bottom end knock. ( i only drove it 8miles to see if it had improved, im not actually using the car )
The car drives fine, idles fine, and has no noticeable power loss, doesnt seem flat or anything.
I'm going to try a new cam tomorrow, but i really need to find the problem and pinpoint the noise before i decide what im gonna do
Any help would be greatly appreciated
The car was taken off the road a few weeks back as the head was knackered, so i got a new head, which ive had ported and polished,
Put the car back together, with the t4 on it also, and appeared to be running perfectly with NO knocks or taps.
The car has now done 100miles, i have mainly been cruising, no severe thrashing, though i did give it a bit in 1st, 2nd and 3rd, and yet again, was still fine, but about 10mins after giving it a bit, it developed a " slight knock ".
At first i thought it sounded like the bottom end, but when i parked it up and listened closely under bonnet, when you rev it it sounds like its coming from the top end, on the exhaust side of the head.
Mate came round with a stethoscope, and we pinpointed a noise to the back 2 tappets on the exhaust side, so we replaced them, and put it back together, still the same. Replaced the oil and filter, and still no joy.
Still sounds like a tap coming from the top end, but when your driving it, it sounds like a bottom end knock. ( i only drove it 8miles to see if it had improved, im not actually using the car )
The car drives fine, idles fine, and has no noticeable power loss, doesnt seem flat or anything.
I'm going to try a new cam tomorrow, but i really need to find the problem and pinpoint the noise before i decide what im gonna do
Any help would be greatly appreciated
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sounds like to me you have done the bearings in the bottom end, as you have upgraded to a t4 with all new seals and gaskets on the new head up top its put the bottom end under a bit more strain and has now knocked the bearings out.........
Do you know how old the bottom end is?
Do you know how old the bottom end is?
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worn cam ratteling..........................?????? that was my noise before the rebuild...............i changed the tappets.........wasnt them.......
#6
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Re: 2wd Cosworth - Engine boffins help please
Originally Posted by Dicko&Sarah
The car has now done 100miles, i have mainly been cruising, no severe thrashing, though i did give it a bit in 1st, 2nd and 3rd, and yet again, was still fine, but about 10mins after giving it a bit, it developed a " slight knock ".
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just been talking to someone at our RSOC meet and they said it could be little ends, as it was the same thing as his rsturbo, whats the possibility of it being little ends instead of big ends? and if it is little ends will i need to change the pistons?
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I would have to say I would be looking at the big ends first. If the small ends have gone, then it would probably be a good idea to use this as an excuse to replace the pistons (imho).
At the end of the day, the big end bearings take more of a pounding IIRC.
JJ
At the end of the day, the big end bearings take more of a pounding IIRC.
JJ
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Originally Posted by JjCoDeX75
I would have to say I would be looking at the big ends first. If the small ends have gone, then it would probably be a good idea to use this as an excuse to replace the pistons (imho).
At the end of the day, the big end bearings take more of a pounding IIRC.
JJ
At the end of the day, the big end bearings take more of a pounding IIRC.
JJ
think ill give that a go and see if it resolves the problem
thanks for your help
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Originally Posted by Dicko&Sarah
Originally Posted by JjCoDeX75
I would have to say I would be looking at the big ends first. If the small ends have gone, then it would probably be a good idea to use this as an excuse to replace the pistons (imho).
At the end of the day, the big end bearings take more of a pounding IIRC.
JJ
At the end of the day, the big end bearings take more of a pounding IIRC.
JJ
think ill give that a go and see if it resolves the problem
thanks for your help
JJ
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Originally Posted by Dicko&Sarah
have already changed the oil and filter mate and wasnt anything noticeable in it.
Its just wierd that it isnt affecting the running of the car - if the timing was off, or the valves were hitting the pistons, it wouldnt take long to be noticeable.
Its a bugger that it is not easy to get the sump off, as this would be my first reaction.
JJ
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as said mate it doesnt have any noticeable power loss and runs and drives fine ill try a new cam tomorrow and see what it like. could the cam journals be worn in the head ive put on? but if they were surely it would of made the noise instantly
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Originally Posted by Dicko&Sarah
as said mate it doesnt have any noticeable power loss and runs and drives fine ill try a new cam tomorrow and see what it like. could the cam journals be worn in the head ive put on? but if they were surely it would of made the noise instantly
I bought a head recently that I now run that had some limited wear on one of the journals (oil starvation almost certainly). We corrected it as best as possible (by removing high areas etc), and used a different cam.
Even so, to make a noise, that to me would imply movement. Did you see any marks on the cam when you replaced the lifters?
JJ
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I am not expert on this but from my experience....
Some times, the tappets take time to "soak up" oil as they are oil filled.
This makes them very noisy for ages.
Particularly after a rebuild and the tappets have been removed.
This happens when the head tappet bores are slightly worn on older engines.
This is really noticable on engines when an oil is used thats too thin for an
engine with many miles on it.
I suggest consulting the "OILMAN" user on here for some advice on trying
a different grade of oil for the engine first before ripping it apart.
Some times, the tappets take time to "soak up" oil as they are oil filled.
This makes them very noisy for ages.
Particularly after a rebuild and the tappets have been removed.
This happens when the head tappet bores are slightly worn on older engines.
This is really noticable on engines when an oil is used thats too thin for an
engine with many miles on it.
I suggest consulting the "OILMAN" user on here for some advice on trying
a different grade of oil for the engine first before ripping it apart.
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rite ive replaced all the tappets today with a set i know were fine just to eliminate this and guess what still the same lol the cam lobes are fine the only wear on the cams are from the cam caps.
could worn valve guides cause it to knock/tap etc just when i got the head back after being rebuilt and ported etc you could see grease around the guides has this been put on to quieten it or just to help fitment?
just dont want to rebuild bottom end to find its the head again lol
here is a pic of when i got it back
could worn valve guides cause it to knock/tap etc just when i got the head back after being rebuilt and ported etc you could see grease around the guides has this been put on to quieten it or just to help fitment?
just dont want to rebuild bottom end to find its the head again lol
here is a pic of when i got it back
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I always believed bottom end is always a very distinctive type of noise - like a rumble!
I know of another 2wd Saff with the exact same issue as yours this has been diagnosed with little end bearing issues.
I know of another 2wd Saff with the exact same issue as yours this has been diagnosed with little end bearing issues.
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Only way to be sure imho is to rip out the block and look. If the big end bearings are fine, then dont forget to check the mains as well as the small end. If it is presenting with noise, you will prob be able to id the fault pretty quickly.
Good luck, and keep us posted.
JJ
Good luck, and keep us posted.
JJ
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Originally Posted by Dicko&Sarah
cheers butch all i want to know is what to rebuild lol so looks like engine out tomorrow
https://passionford.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=262698
or if you aint got the money i'll do you a good build
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Originally Posted by Butch.
Originally Posted by Dicko&Sarah
cheers butch all i want to know is what to rebuild lol so looks like engine out tomorrow
https://passionford.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=262698
or if you aint got the money i'll do you a good build
anything free would be ideal
cheers for the offer though but workin on a tightttt budget atm
#27
Originally Posted by Dicko&Sarah
Originally Posted by radiant red
at least its a 2wd so sump off aint a massive task
i think
i think
its a bitch when they are this way out,touch wood mines been reliable for ages now
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Originally Posted by radiant red
Originally Posted by Dicko&Sarah
Originally Posted by radiant red
at least its a 2wd so sump off aint a massive task
i think
i think
its a bitch when they are this way out,touch wood mines been reliable for ages now
i said that last week, now fuckin look at me
#35
I've found that life I needed.. It's HERE!!
To tell if its bottom end knock,try disconnecting an injector or ht lead
on each cyl in turn to see if the noise goes away.
If the noise disappears,its a very good chance its bottom end.
Who timed the cams for you,valve not clipping a piston?
Is the head gasket fitted dead square?
puddy
Ps. my mate has just had problems with rattling tappets ,replaced them
and still the same,turned out to be a loose oil pump pickup drawing air
and giving low oil pressure
on each cyl in turn to see if the noise goes away.
If the noise disappears,its a very good chance its bottom end.
Who timed the cams for you,valve not clipping a piston?
Is the head gasket fitted dead square?
puddy
Ps. my mate has just had problems with rattling tappets ,replaced them
and still the same,turned out to be a loose oil pump pickup drawing air
and giving low oil pressure
#36
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Originally Posted by GARETH T
have you fitted the exhaust manifold gasket right? no joke, they can sounds like a knock
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Originally Posted by puddy
To tell if its bottom end knock,try disconnecting an injector or ht lead
on each cyl in turn to see if the noise goes away.
If the noise disappears,its a very good chance its bottom end.
Who timed the cams for you,valve not clipping a piston?
Is the head gasket fitted dead square?
puddy
on each cyl in turn to see if the noise goes away.
If the noise disappears,its a very good chance its bottom end.
Who timed the cams for you,valve not clipping a piston?
Is the head gasket fitted dead square?
puddy
so atleast i know now lol