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....we have much talk abbout the ultimate suspension set up for track cossies...but can i ask..will this make a shit driver be able to drive?...Or if you put a good driver is a crap setup cossie would they beat that Mike R well set up one?

Surely driver skill and no fear levels are what makes a fast car?

With traction control i feel i am up to say Schumacher levels of ability...but put me in Mikes Escos and i would sink to pon----d level.

Discuss.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

I think they make you a worse driver as people end up relying on them.

phil_focus

there is a LOT of it left to the driver!!!!

without a good driver the car will never go its quickest round the track

Stavros

a top flight racing driver in a shitbox will kick the ass of an average driver in the best race car ever.

and if you can get good in a shit car, youl then be amazing in a good car.

spending big money on bits is an expensive way to be fast compared to actually taking things to the limit and increasing your skills.

dojj

iTrader: (3)

a shit driver is a shit driver, regardless of what car they drive
if you drive shit in a car thats not known to be driving shittily then it just goes to proove that no matter who you are you can't drive for wank

if you have a shit car driven with skill it just goes to show how good a driver you are

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

You need to be able to understand what the car is doing around you and be able to react to that and drive WITH the car. If you can't do that, then it won't matter how good the car is, you'll still be shit, as you won't understand what the handling nuances are telling you .

All you have to do is sit as a passenger with someone who REALLY can drive, and you'll see how shit you are .

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...the thing i find is with traction control and whatever else my car has it takes the fear element out...and to say how fast i am goin..the car has shut down 4 times thinking i have crashed

...but in saying that dont F1 cars now have all these gizmos?...I know motogp bikes do...although you require mad skill to ride one whatever aid you have!

Stavros

Sums it up nicely.

Everyone gives it the biggun until they get a ride with someone who can properly pedal, then they feel like a right cunt for acting like that.

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

My version of this was sitting in with the guy who used to drive the pink APT prepared S13 200SX drift car . Made feel proper PONY .

Mike1

Was Chris Goodwin ( the GT car driver ) for me ! Passengered him round Donnington for 2 laps in the Nissan UK press demo R33 Skyline GTR.....his first words to me as went out the pits were " the brakes are completely warped so I shall be trying not to use them......."

Stavros

How long ago was "used to" my mate Steve Dunn owns it now, and erm, whashis name used to own it, but is in America now.
Was it a big guy, or a skinnier insane seeming guy?
The big ones Steve, the slightly strange man is the old owner.
Either way, they damn good drivers

Beefy on here summed it up nice yesterday after a passenger ride in Mike Murphys ProDrift Ireland Sil80...

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Steve,
Was the original owner - skinny guy with glasses .

Stavros

Aye, he pretty fucking handy, esp for someone who is totally insane.

But in the grand scheme of things (well if talking about drifitng) he not even in the top 10 in the UK/Ireland.

dave cos4x4

iTrader: (5)

mine is a crap set up ,Mikes is an awesome set up

my car done well against Mikes car at Nat Day.

ok,the tyres were different, i had slicks and Mike had road legal slicks,but i though my car done pretty well againts his considering the difference in the cars.

i might be considering getting a rear beam if it makes the car handle better,understeering wise.

i am waiting for Mike's write up in the mag first.

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...we need to ask Billabong on how good a setup Mike had on his Saff


...at the end of the day if you push your car your bound to go over your skill level occasionally...hopefully my computers wont let that happen to me

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Dave,
Stop calling them road legal slicks . They are fully treaded tyres and look like Eagle F1s in tread patterm, they're just VERY good high performance tyres . Road legal slicks are what they say they are - slicks with a tread pattern cut in like DZ02Gs, Pirelli Corsas, and Toyo R888s etc.

However, Marco is sourcing me some tyres like yours, so you can see the difference they make .

I could actually SEE (from the best seat in the house ) how your car was cornering and what the tyres allowed you to get away with.... .

dave cos4x4

iTrader: (5)

lol,

so it was shit BUT the tyres did give me a hand.

how much difference would the beam of made?

dave cos4x4

iTrader: (5)

computers.....


cheat.

Stavros

trouble is, with regard to traction control, it slows you down.

having 100% traction isnt the fastest way to drive by a mile.

you need to be able to hang it and wheelspin in certain situations.

was chasing a boxster S up and over the mentally twisty A686 between penrith and hexam oop north the other day and with TC on i was getting murdered, but a lot easier to catch him with it off.

a LOT easier to crash too, but thats the point, its to stop people crashing, but it bloody well slows you down too.

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...this is the only thing that winds mike up....saying you are a better driver than him...tbh with your track record i feel a blind man would give you a run for your money

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Stavros on the AMG it has a very intelligent system as it it lets you go sidewards tyres smoking before saying thats enuff sonny ...It learns how one drives....i certainly aint got 100% traction....switch it off and you just sit spinning ..my XJR which had more bhp but less torque had better grip but traction on no spin at all and no frolics..lol

dave cos4x4

iTrader: (5)

so when are you going to venture on the track Phil.

Stavros

Seriously? It lets you? Or you feel the 2degree ass twitch and think your hanging it like a bad bwoi like most people do?

I was talking about an E60 BMW in the above post so not exactly a basic TC system...

Ive driven E46s and its similar, if anything worse as they have more power to cut.

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Stavros when i first went fast around a bend in it i shit my pants it went right out spinning tyres i backed off myself and thought there must be a fault ....read up about them and its normal to give you abit of fun ...seriously off the lights it spins gets traction spins etc etc its the best TC i have had but as i say it learns how you drive.....i was going to get an m3 e46 but this has more power/bhp faster figures weighs the same there abouts and i just cant sell it at the mo..i love it.

Stavros

cool, be interesting to drive one and feel what it does, sounds interesting.

the BM one lets you have some fun with it semi off (ie one press, not held down for a few secs) but even that cuts fun at arkward moments too i found.

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...its nothing like my XJR t/c which just dont let you spin at all very safe..i guess AMG wanted you to have a bit of fun?...As said 4 times now its shut down due to thinking i have actually crashed as it was that sideways ..maybe there is a fault?

....oh does wider tyres make a difference as i changed to what the american E55 amg has from 265/35/18 rear and 235/40/18 front to 275/35/18 rear and 245/40/18 fronts..maybe thats foxxing it???

marco polo

iTrader: (1)

hi peeps

the driver has alot to do with it , we all know that


but you can only push a car so far with the standardish stuff on it

the reasons why peeps upgrade the car is to go faster and get a bit more out of it ... when you have got decent stuff on the car like suspension/brakes/tryes /adjustable parts, you can phisically go alot quicker and thats what everyone wants too do , it's the enjoyment of speed.....

i could drive the sierra ptetty good when it was about 330bhp around a track with alot of just fast road stuff on it but now its so easy i dont have to try the car turns in better because of the adjustment /handles better because of the suspension and adjustable parts/ it stops alot quicker because of the brakes slicks /it grips better because of the slicks it just makes life easyer to drive

marco

Nick.

Does making one of the writers for fast ford sweat buckets, then go and run to be sick in the toilets .. make you a rather fast driver around donington??

if so my dads a brilliant driver

Matt Evans

I must say, have seen Mr Preist senior in action, it was the smoothness of his drive that makes it very fast. At a number of trackdays i have been on with your old man, he would just pound round all day, keeping it tidy, KNOWING where the limits were, and just putting in consistent lap times.

I must agree with marco, by having excellent basics, ie proper big brakes, well aligned set up suspension, proper tyres, even a "less powerful" car can humiliate supposedly faster better cars, and belive me thats a good feeling.

As they say practise makes perfect, i must have done about 40 - 50 trackdays in my old s2, and you got to know exactly how it would behave to my measured inputs.

Stavros

But at the same time, i wonder how much faster a top racing driver would be in it after a few laps?

marco polo

iTrader: (1)

steve

most of us are just normal drivers just love doing track days

as long as i have my cossie/rs2000 i will always do track days it's just something i have intrest in i hate them when they break

Jim Galbally

anyone who's seen me drive round a track will know, a shit driver will be slow no matter what car you put them in.

TBH my problem is more to do with fear that copnetency. i dont take the car anywhere NEAR the limit (i wont even get tyres chirping!)

Stavros

thats the trouble with always having a car you give a fuck about though, youl rarely ever really take it to the limits for fear of crashing.

thats not you being a pussy, thats just life.

what does everyone find with consistancy? as your not taking the cars right to the ragged edge i suppose you can be pretty consistant.

Benni

Here is a perfect example for you all: Three cars exactly the same but two were a focus ST and one (mine) is a standard 1.6 Zetec. The two ST's where racing each other and neither could loose me in my 1.6. And when we arrived at the desitantion one of the ST's passengers got out and asked me what I had done to my car. If you can't drive you can't drive.

P.S I wasn't racing but had to keep up as I was in a convoy with one of the ST's cruising when he seen another one and had to show him he was better which left me no choice but to keep up.

Hooligan

I'm pretty handy with a bike, been riding for 14 years now and I dare to say that around town hardly anyone would catch me...but around a track it's a different story....different ridingstyle.

When it comes to cars: some cars suit my drivingstyle, others don't and that makes a difference as well.
I guess a really good driver can adapt to different cars and circumstances.

When I went round the 'ring in Mike's car I was properly impressed by his speed but in my vieuw that was down to him knowing his way around.
When he went out with me he was giving me pointers as I just didn't know what bend was gonna come next.
The only bit I knew was carrousel and Mike rewarded me by telling me I was a proper nutter for going in the way I did

Stavros

they mustve been the shittest drivers ever if they was actually trying

did the drivers have arms and legs?

Micky The Finn

not entirely true,there were a few group B rally drivers that could not tell you what anything was on a car but yet could drive the life out of them,being able to drive fast you dont need to know what bump steer or rebound or high speed damping is as long as you can actually drive,those that tend to dwell on the physics involved tend to actually be the slower ones.

reactions,ability to get out of trouble,find the limits of grip and know a few black arts or car control are what makes you fast,and safe.

anyone wanting lessons just ask,

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Tim,
You misunderstood my comments. I didn't mean you had to understand the WORKINGS of the suspension, I meant that you had to understand WHAT the car was telling you when it reacted in a certain way, so that you knew how to deal with it. Even as a passenger you can tell that the car is trying to tell the driver something and if they don't listen to that and react accordingly, then the driver will also become a passenger, as the car then does what IT wants, because you didn't "listen" to what it was trying to tell you . Obviously this is down to experience of pushing a car to the limit (and beyond) to understand it's nuances.

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...i guess as you say to be the best you have to go over the edge and hopefully survive to find limits..lol

Graham S1

years ago, when I worked for John Lewis, we had a go-kart session, loads of different departments. A few people were chuckling at the guy from the electrics dept, who must have been at least 16 stone, by far the biggest bloke there.

Yet he whipped everyones arses, by at least a minute in each race, purely because he had spent soooo much time driving both carts and doing trackdays.

The reaction of every one watching.... >