Tank Mike

as above. you hear people go on about it, just wondered exsacly what it is, how its done.

as my engines in bits at the monent i might get it done.

phil_focus

firstly i think you should be asking yourself "is it needed?"

and "why do people do it". i guess they do it so they can lower the compression ratio but thats just a guess

Tank Mike

Thats what i was hoping to find out

pete mcrash

iTrader: (1)

are u wanting to run big boost????....its safer helps stop "head lift"

saffsta

iTrader: (1)

Im interested in knowing this too

pete mcrash

iTrader: (1)

if ur wanting it done...talk to Mike rainbird or click onto his link on this site...R&B motorsport

dazzle740

iTrader: (1)

Well it all depends on what power you are wanting to acheive
For their is two options that are stronger than just normal head bolts
1, a stud and nut kit, this uses the existing head bolt holes but the head then slots on and is tightened down by nuts on the end my engine is running 350-380ish bhp and that is what i had done

2, the block needs machining right to the bottom for the long studs to go right through and they are either threaded through most of the hole or has nuts at the bottom end as well as the top
this method is generally used by the high boost chaps as mentioned before stops the head from being lifted off the block under high boost

Hope this helps

wes

you guessed wrong, how on earth will fitting long studs lower the CR?

Std head bolts are fine for huge power levels (over 500bhp), it's all in the preperation of the head and block surfaces.

GUZZLER

iTrader: (3)

cosworths have always been known for blowing head gaskets, even the group a gasket dosn't last fo ever.....

some people use a group a gasket & change the bolts after 10k as they stretch & work there way loose.

Long studding & a wrc spec gasket is the more expensive option but can handle bigger amounts of boost (the studs have more clamping force than standard bolts so stop the heading from lifting off the block) the head gasket will not 'rot away' like a fibre gasket. To use a metal gasket the head & block face must be totally flat, ie; skim the head & have the block decked.

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Are you talking a bout a CVH here? I ask due to your siggy...

Tank Mike

no its a yb cossie lump that im building for my 3 door,

(the turm building should be taken very loosey as this is the first persomance engine i have ever built hence the questions lol)

i am aiming for a 500-500bhp engine.

Tank Mike

p.s. stu i wanted to talk to you actully, i want to get the car set up with closed loop and a wasted spark driver when its all back together. i shall be looking for a p8 very shortly.

just wondered
a. is the p8 a good chose
b. roughtly how long would you need the car for
c. how much would it cost

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

P8 has virtually no benefits over a L8.
I can sell you all teh parts you want via mail order, so i dont need the car at all. Live mapping time depends on your entire spec.

phil_focus

what i was thinkin was that you could fit more head gasket layers to lower the compression ratio so longer studs will allow for bigger nuts or something.

my wording is really bad there and i think i have completely lost the plot cos it dont make sense now

SS1

iTrader: (3)

pete mcrash

iTrader: (1)

....i'm not going to say ur still wrong fella,cos i might be....dosn't adding thicker gaskets raise the C/R or is that skimming the head....now i'm confuddled....

Tank Mike

skimming the head or fitting a thinner head gasket, raises the c/r

fitting a thinker head gasket or a spacer plate, lowers the c/r

Tank Mike

are you the only one who can live map the stuff you sell, because in my opinion i have quite a large spec.

Shings

Please dont take offence at this.

You are building your FIRST performance engine

Its a cosworth YB.

You want 500bhp.

EEEEEEEEEEEEEEKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK

And then you want to know about long studding which is one of those things where there doesn't appear to be a right or wrong answer and tends very much to be down to the prefferance of the tuner you are choosing to do the worl.

And you're not choosing a tuner- you're doing it yourself..


It all sounds very very scary to me- I hope you dont spend a lot of money and it all goes pair shapped..

Pick you machinist very carefully and make sure you spec everything properly so you dont get a mismash of parts that wont work together well.

Using the internet as a guide is fraught with dangers.....

Jake

Tank Mike

thanks for the advice,

thousands have already been spent, and i fully understand what your saying. but its something i have always fanceyed a go at. and you can't really go half measures.

on the brigh side tho. if it all goes tits up some of the engine parts will look nice on me bedroom wall

Dingy

Cosworth standard head bolts are good for well over 700bhp with a mountune wrc headgasket so why bother with long studs LOL

Tank Mike

has anyone on here ever had a go to build there own perfomance engine. or has everone left it to the tuners.

i would give my left bollox to work with a tuner but i know im not good enough yet, and i don't really see where else you can get the practice and experance apart for your own shed,

Shings

You're opening a can of worms.....

You need to be so so carefull because you could end up taking it to your tuner to be mapped and having a massive bill for things you didn't think of or didn't know about or realise..

Who's porting your head???? another scary thing.


All I know is what i would do.... and its not ever gonna be the same as what you're gonna do.. or what the next person would do...

NMS Badboy^NUTTER^

OMFG

Very amusing read

Tank Mike

why??

NMS Badboy^NUTTER^

Because what has been said is a complete load of old bollocks!!!

STD head bolts and WRC gasket, END OF!

Dingy

LOL

Am just waiting for my 6 to cause issues then its new block and headbolts time LOL

Tank Mike

head already been ported with a matched inlet mainfold, and 3 angle valve seats, had new guilds and sats fitted too. also had the chamber smoothed.

NEEDFORSPEED

^NUTTER^
ditto some interesting stuff mentioned here. i could never imagine using standard headbolts with massive power/big boost even using a proper head gasket / true surfaces?!

get some pics up tho mate, what turbo you using?

abdr500

iTrader: (1)

well i am running a true 500 bhp on a mountune wrc gasket on std head bolts will wait and see how long that last if it fails long studing it as its the only way after this so my advice is long stud it m8 its better

Shings

Why- it hasn't blown up?

abdr500

iTrader: (1)

Shings
because 10 long stud do have a better clamp load over std head bolts .saying that std head bolts are realy good but is all ways on my mind as i have had my head lift befor

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

I doubt i am the ONLY one, but i can map either of them live, although i may well be one of the very very few people who can live map P8. Ive certainly not heard of anyone else doing it yet.

Dannn

I assume your quoting Karl. I thought Karl was not impressed by 6 studs and that if your going to do it you should use 8 ?

NMS Badboy^NUTTER^

8???? Which out of the 10 available do you long stud then??

Dannn

NMS Badboy^NUTTER^

I have used 6 long studs and WRC gasket. Result = headgasket failure

I then had 10 long studs and WRC gasket. Result = headgasket failure

I then used a new( secondhand) block and wire rung group a gasket with standard bolts. Result = no problems at all.

I am now using a 205 block, WRC gasket and standard bolts Result is not yet known, but i am absolutely convinced that i will see no headgasket problems.

This is running 7.2 C/R, T4 and upto 47psi boost, normally 43psi

Dannn

I can kind of see why doing 6 could cause a problem but have a hard time see how doing all 10 can't be better than standard-even if it is necessary.

NMS Badboy^NUTTER^

Heres a clue.

With heat, a head expands.

Some bolts stretch and return to there original length afterwards. Some bolts will stretch and stay at their new length.

I would prefer to use a stretch bolt myself.

phil_focus

isnt the stretched bolt going to be more brittle and more prone to breaking?!?!

i'd prefer to use stronger bolts