DanS

Right, I'm on the look out for my first TV & entertainment system for my new house.

Nothing too fancy, just an LCD 32inch but what I want to do is run my hi-fi through the same surround sound setup as my TV.

Now what I need to know is what sockets do I need to make sure a) the TV I am getting has, b) the sound setup has and c) my hi-fi has to link it all together!

I'm a complete newb when it comes to this stuff btw

Also any recomendations on 32inch TV's would be great Looking at either LG or Panasonic.

Cheers,
Dan

RS500/364

get a samsung tv think these have 2 scarts and a couple off other inputs inc HDMI
a panasonic dvd home hifi system around £220 dolby digital scart and audio / video phono
and a media player hdd drive with 500 gig in it (s/video and 3.5jack plug)put all your music on it film and photos and still loads of room media player £80-£90 hdd your choice £40 200 gig up to £110 500 gig best choice for me
or a freeview hdd humax £199 (instead of the HDD) 2 x scartand you can put MP3 and photos on the dive of this freeview !!

RS-Leigh

iTrader: (2)

Have a look here.....loads of info for you to read...

http://www.avforums.com/forums/index.php

Leigh

dojj

iTrader: (3)

lcd or plasma telly?
there is a choice

as long as the telly has stero outputs you can plug it into any amp and go from there

the problem i've got on my system is that the dvd and picture are a little out of sync

DanS

Cheers guys!

frog

Some DVD players and amps have a facility whereby you can delay or advance the sound a little bit in comparison with the picture.
The reason there is a delay is that all the digital processing that is happening these days takes time (ok it's only a few milliseconds) and that time is often long enough to be noticed.
SKY HD also introduced a delay facility in the box for the same reason.

dojj

iTrader: (3)

intersting information there mate

Thrush

iTrader: (1)

Right, it all depends and what you want, and how you want it to work, but the best thing to get is an AV Reciever.

Essentially this is an amplifier, but has ouptuts for multiple speakers, not just two like normal intergrated stereo amps. AV amps are available in many flavours, with multiple outpus - 5.1 is the standard, but 6.1 + 7.1 are getting more common... For audio decoding, Dolby Digital Surround (5.1) and DTS (5.1 typically) are the standard, but with the advent of HD technology, TrueHD and DolbyHD, along with DTS-HD (along with DTS-Neo, DTS-96/24 and a few others) are also getting more common...

Anyway, enough speil - how to make it all work

Basically, an AV amp will pretty much allow you to plug virtually everything into it for audio (and a good few things for video aswell - cover that later). My set up is as follows. The TV is basically just a "monitor" as in all it deos is show video pictures. Everything sound wise is routed to the AV amp. The Freeview box is plugged in via optical cable, the DVD connects via digital coax, the VCR by L+R analogue RCA. I also have the SACD part of the DVD player plugged into the 6x RCA multichannel analogue inputs.

This means to listen to another source, I just change the "channel" (or input) on the amp.

You can also link in with video content, as half the reason for it being an AV is the V stands for VIDEO. Most amps have standard composite (yellow RCA) inputs, a lot have S-Video aswell, and some have component (red, green and blue RCA). HDMI is getting more common too, and the new Sony amp will allow multiple video inputs, and upscale all and output thorugh a single HDMI (meaning you can plug in a couple of composite,s an S-Vid, and a component (or whatever combination) and only have one HDMI output running to your TV.

When setting up the amp to handle both video and audio, your TV only ever needs to be on one "channel" (whatever input the video output from the amp is plugged into the TV) so you change the video and the audio source purely from the amp.

Tell me if this is getting too technical or going over your head

Lets say you had a TV, a DVD player, a hifi, Sky TV, and a VCR. You could probably route all these through an AV amp.

DanS

Thanks Thrush - I'm starting to get to grips with all the technical stuff now

At the moment I have the following:

LG 32inch LCD 32LC2D (Ordered yesturday)

Digital Freeview built into the LCD above so no extra box at the moment but may be getting sky/cable at a later date

And a Panasonic DVD/CD/MP3/Jpeg player which has a component out (3 wires) socket.

Now having realised that my dvd player plays CD's and stuff I dont really see the need to hook up my hi-fi in the living room, it can go else where in the house.

So, what should I be looking at to allow me to play my music through my dvd player into a surround sound setup as well as my tv? I dont want to spend more than £200 but want to to be as compatable as possible!!

Thanks again,
Dan

gingeRS

i have an lg 32 inch lcd tv

its awesome, very good buy and a bargain at under £500 delivered

Thrush

iTrader: (1)

DanS - exlcuding Sky/Cable as you haven't got it yet, here's how you do it;

1) You plug your DVD player into the TV using the 3 component RCA's
2) You plug the optical or digital coaxial output from the DVD player into the AV amp
3) You run a standard pair of stereo analogue RCA cables from the TV's L+R output to the AV amp

Then, to watch a DVD, you turn on the TV, select the component input, turn on the AV amp and select the DVD input (or whatever you plugged the digital cable into) DVD picture appears on TV, sound comes out in multichannel from the AV amp

To watch Freeview, you select that on the TV, and the sound comes out the TV's L+R output into the AV amp (on whatever input you chose to plug it into)

steviep

Depends on your budget for the surround set up but my system is pukka


AV Reciever (amp)



Front L/R Floorstanders



Front Centre



Rear L/R



Sub




Amazing sound whether playing CD's or watching a film


With some decent speaker cable you'll need to budget around £1500 for this setup, but worth every penny

dojj

iTrader: (3)

not only is that stuff out of my price range, it sounds seriously complicated to

i've got the telly hooked up to the amp
and everything else hooked up to the telly
so the picture comes through the telly
the soud comes through the amp
and you just change the settings on the amp to the thing you are watching, so tv, dvd, etc

Thrush

iTrader: (1)

Dojj - it's really not that complicated, and sorry to say, the way you are doing it simply isn't getting the best out of your gear. For a start, you own't be getting full, proper 5.1 surround sound from your DVD player if the audio is going into the TV from the DVD, then from the TV to the amp, as the TV can only output stereo (2ch) audio.

If you don't bother with the V part of the AV amp (v being VIDEO), which a lot of people, myself included, don't bother doing, then just think of the amp as a normal multi input amp. You plug your DVD player audio output into it (either 6x RCA outputs or a single digital cable, optical or coaxial), plug your Sky box audio output (either stereo RCA or digital audio output), plug your VCR (L+R audio) into it, and whatever else you have. Connect all your source gear to the TV using normal video cables (beit component, S-Video, SCART etc) and then the amp is handling ALL the audio, and the TV is just a "monitor" in effect (like how a PC monitor only handles the video content, no audio)

dojj

iTrader: (3)

everything is connected to the amp soundwise and everything is connected to the telly picture wise, sorry for any confusion

but that still doesn't explain why the amp and the telly put out different sounds of just that little bit out of sync

can't afford anything new because i'm in the same boat as you, mortgage takes all the money

Thrush

iTrader: (1)

Most amps have a built in time allignment tool to combat lip sync problem..... Maybe worth having a look for that?

dojj

iTrader: (3)

this is about 10 years old so it might not have

it's a technics sa-ax7 as found here
http://www.cinenow.com/us/materiel.php3/tid,1/id,824/
i think they forgot to put 6 channel as it's on the box rather than 5

by all means it gets reasonabl reviews from what i can see

Thrush

iTrader: (1)

Dojj - it only outputs 5 powered channels, the sixth channel (the ".1" LFE channel) is a pre-out - ie, non powered, which you run to an active (powered) subwoofer, or to another amp that has a sub connected to it

Hasn't got a full write up there, but by the looks of it, it doesn't do Dolby Digital Surround or DTS????? If so, it's only a Pro Logic amp, which is super odd!

dojj

iTrader: (3)

dunno about all that lot
all it says is dolby surrouns pro logic, what does that mean then?

Thrush

iTrader: (1)

Dolby Pro Logic is different from Dolby Digital Surround;

Dolby Digital Surround (more comonly known as Dolby Digital 5.1)

Thrush

iTrader: (1)

What I think the above is basically saying is your amp does not decode the true Dolby digital Surround 5.1 found on 99.9 of DVD's. Nor does it do the DTS sound track on the majority of discs. So you aren't getting a "true" surround sound soundtrack, as Pro Logic is a "fake" surround sound - you can apply Pro Logic to many stereo sources - such as radio, normal TV etc... The amp's technology takes this 2ch source and creates it's own discrete "surround" mix using phasing and relocation from one speaker to another....

To enjoy true surround sound, I think it's time for a new amp

dojj

iTrader: (3)

so it's old school then

dojj

iTrader: (3)

if i earned as much as everyone else then it wouldn't be a problem i'll have to stick with it now i suppose, it's good enough to create banging bass so thats all im's intrested in and so is junior

Thrush

iTrader: (1)

Yeah

Proper surround amps aren't too expensive - it all depends on what connectivity you want really (ie, what type of cables you use)

List what gear you have, and what type of cable you use for each one, and I'll probably be able to work out what you need!

Like my set up for example - you exclude the TV and how you connect the video content to that, all we are interested in is how you connect audio from the source unit to the amp;

Freeview box - I connect mine using optical cable

VCR - just use analogue L+R RCA/phono cables

DVD - the surround is taken care of with one lead - in my case digital coaxial, but you can use optical. I also use the multichannel (6x RCA/Phono) for my SACD input - which can also be used for DVDs

HDD Media Player - currently uses analogue L+R RCA/Phono leads, but when I change it I will get one with optical




So my amp needs at least 2x optical inputs, 1x coaxial input, 1x multichannel/6x RCA inputs, and at least 2x L+R RCA/Phono inputs

So if I knew what you had, and how it was connected, I could configure what you need

dojj

iTrader: (3)

from the top we have

sky box - phono x 2
then the video - phono x 2
then the cd - again, phono x 2
then the dvd player which has the 6 channel inputs via 6 phono's
then the dvd recorder, which is again phono x 2
the ps2 goes into the telly and then the telly goes back into the amp and last but no least, the xbox 360 via the cable the 360 comes with

Thrush

iTrader: (1)

What cable is the 360? Again, like the PS2, I take it it goes to TV then comes back again to the amp?

Right.... Ammendments

Sky box - 2x RCA (this is probably also capable of outputing via an optical cable)

DVD player - more than likely to have both optical + coaxial which will handle ALL the surround sound and stereo tracks.

DVD Recorder - what is this used for? To record from Sky? Do you just use a normal Scart from Sky to the DVDR? Then the DVDR back to the amp via 2x phono?

This amp would probably suffice perfectly;

http://www.homecinemachoice.com/revi...ySTR-DB930.php

PICTURE OF REAR CONNECTIONS

- So, you plug your Sky box in using optical into TV/LD OPTICAL IN
- You plug your DVD using digi coaxial into DVD COAXIAL IN
- You plug your VCR using 2x RCA into VIDEO 1 AUDIO IN (you can loop back to it again for recording)
- You plug your CD using 2x RCA into CD IN
- You plug the DVDR using 2x RCA into VIDEO 2 AUDIO IN
- You then plug the 2x RCA from the TV into either the PHONO, MD/DAT IN or the TAPE IN inputs - to allow the PS2 and 360 sound from the TV to come into the amp

Sorted. You can still use the multichannel 5.1 input aswell, as the amp has that onboard. In which case you could use the 6ch from one DVD player, and the coaxial from the DVDR, or vice versa....

Here's one of those amps listed;

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Sony-STR-DB930...QQcmdZViewItem

And another;

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Sony-AV-tuner-...QQcmdZViewItem

And a third

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Sony-Home-Cine...QQcmdZViewItem

In fact, here's the search page

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Sony-Home-Cine...QQcmdZViewItem

DanS

So in an idea world, if you want good quality surround sound you will need to buy an amp! Do many surround sounds packages come with them?

Dan

Thrush

iTrader: (1)

Dan - you can buy off the shelf all in one surround sound pacakges, that usually come with a DVD player, an active sub (basically, the sub case houses an amplifier) and satellite speakers (the fronts, rears and centre speakers, that connect to the active sub to take power) but these don't usually have additonal inputs for other source units.

For this you really want an AV amp (AVR). An AVR has multiple inputs and does video passthrough aswell as audio - ie it has inputs for video sources aswell as audio sources. But most people, myself included, don't bother with the video sources, unless you already have high quality gear and buy a high quality amp. The reason for this is that AV amps generally only have composite (single yellow RCA) video or S-Video (4-pin DIN) connections - neither of which are HQ video links. DVD players typically either run on RGB Scart (the best analogue connection available) or component RGB (3x rca's) which typically are for progressive scan. A lot of DVD players are coming out with HDMI connectors on them aswell.

Most AVR's don't have component RGB inputs (traditionally, component RGB is an American thing) and there isn't a single one that has a scart on it! You can connect scart equipped sources to an AV amp, but you have to do it with a break-down lead - a scart with either three rca's (composite (yellow) video, and red + white audio RCA's) or a scart to s-video lead. Of course, then the PQ is only as good as composite or s-video - NOT as good as RGB scart.

Some amps do have component inputs and outputs, but those that do usually only have 2x component inputs and 1x component outputs - so you can only connect two source units via component. And even then, both units have to be able to output in what is called YUV (technical name for component, also knonwn as YPrPb or YCrCb) As said, some DVD players do this, very few other things do - like Sky or Freeview (in fact, there is only one Freeview box that does do this, and thats the Topfield TF-5800PVR - which is silly money, tho a TOP pice of kit!) Thenyou get the AVR's that had HDMI, some of which will take a lowly composite or s-video source, and upscale it and output it via the HDMI. Great cos it means you only need one lead comeing FROM to the AVR to the TV, but still pony as although it;s being fed to the TV via HDMI, it's still only a composite or s-video signal - and like tuning cars : the output is only ever going to be as good as it's weakest link - in this case the crappy analogue video connection!

So thats why most of us don't bother. We mainly use AVR's for 2 things : 1) allowing multiple inputs to be played through one amplifier and one set of speakers, and 2) using the AVR as a multichannel amplifier - normal amps only do 2 speakers (stereo) whereas AVR's do 5 speakers (with a pre out for the ".1" sub) as standard, some do 6.1 and 7.1....

So really, you want an AVR. Mines a Sony, cost me under £100 from ebay second hand.

If in doubt, by all means post up what you have and how you want it connected, I'll work it out and see if I can find an amp for you like I did for Dojj

dojj

iTrader: (3)

the one that came with my bro's dvd player, while it i surround with 6 speakers, is only useable with the dvd player it came bundled with
you CAN hook up the feed from the telly to run through the dvd player (sky) but it doens't give you proper surround as you say

Thrush

iTrader: (1)

Oh, forgot I already did you a set up

so lets add Sky or cable to that (which you can connect with either optical (some movies and the like do have DD5.1 transmitted with them) or 2x RCA (for normal stereo audio) you need;

- 1x coaxial for the DVD (you can use optical, I find that coaxial sounds better with DVD players)
- 1x optical (for Sky/Cable)
- 1x pair of RCA stereo inputs (for the TV to loop back to)
- another pair in case you want 2x RCA for sky/cable)
- Another pair incase of a CD player or similar

which gives a total of 3x stereo RCA, 1x optical, 1x coaxial

THIS SONY STR-DE495 will do what you want.

PICTURE OF REAR CONNECTIONS

That gives you a coaxial for DVD, an optical for Sky/Cable, and three sets of stereo RCA's (1 pair for the TV, and 2 spare pairs), one of which has a loopback (usually for recording, but can be passed to another device that has RCA audio in)

Can be picked up on ebay for cheap;

http://search.ebay.co.uk/search/sear...&fsop=1&fsoo=1

You can still connect your dvd player, sky/cable, etc to your TV using video cables - YUV for the DVD, RGB scart for the Sky/Cable box, or HDMI if you have it... Just remember to mute the TV so you only hear sound from the speakers connected to the AVR

frog

Thrush,
This isn't entirely true, Pro-Logic was used in cinemas in the old days.

A Pro-Logic sound track actually contains the center and rear surround sound information which a pro-logic amp will be able to extract and play through the centre and rear speakers. The front ones receive the standard stereo signal.
The way it was done was such that a normal amp would play it in stereo and a pro-logic amp would play the surround sound properly.

Now, and this is where the main difference is, the rear speakers both played exactly the same thing, so you couldn't get left/right effects at the back, also, the range of frequencies available to the rears was quite limited.

Dolby digital and DTS are pure 5.1 encoding systems which requires a digital connection (not the white and red RCAs anymore) and have 6 (5 + 1) dedicated full range channels, so each speaker can play its own thing, and a full range of frequencies (from bass to treble) is available to the rear speakers.

DTS is arguably better than Dolby Digital because it's uncompressed.

The original 6.1 used a mix of Dolby Digital (and DTS) and Pro-logic to decode a 6th rear channel out of the stereo sound from the rears which was in effect a centre-rear channel, this created a fuller surround sound again. This 6th channel was limited in bandwidth as per pro-logic of old.

More recently, full digital 6.1 and 7.1 has been available where the 6th and 7th (two side speakers, two rear speakers) channels are again full range.

There is now talk about 9.1, 11.1, etc... but to be honest, unless you have a dedicated room, 5.1 is plenty enough. Not many DVD's are encoded with 6.1 or 7.1 in any case.

Back to pro-logic, some amps were able to fake surround sound from a pure stereo source (e.g. a CD, TV news) which had no surround content, creating the impression that you were immersed in the sound, and yet, it was all artificial compared to a movie which had surround sound encoded in its soundtrack.

The new HD (Tru-HD, etc...) are no different to 5.1, except that the resolution of the sound encoded on the DVD (HD or BlueRay only) is higher, suggesting the quality of the sound improves significantly, but it's still 5.1/6.1/7.1 for now, more channels may well come in the future.

Phew...

I've just realised that I've just re-written most of what you quoted in one of your above posts

dojj

iTrader: (3)

we forgive you

i still won't be able to afford it unless it stays at a tenner

Dannn

Be interested what you think of the LCD!

I was already to order a 46inch LCD and then started reading up on black levels and apparently watching movies on an LCD in the a dark ish room can be shite.

The general consensus is if you like watching movies etc then buy a plasma!

Has anyone else here got experience of both LCD and Plasmas, what your opinion etc ?

Also has anyone got experience of a TH42PX70 42" Panasonic Plasma ?

(btw I am not interested in all the bollocks about screen burn on plasmas etc!)

Dan

dojj

iTrader: (3)

i've got a 42 plasma at home and you can see the picture from all angles

they've got a 42 lcd at work and it starts to darken as soon as you get beyond about 20-25 degrees from it at any angle

i've got a hitachi telly and the works ones are nec

the best i've seen is the samsung but they cost lots more

DanS

It arrives today so I will let you know

dojj

iTrader: (3)

not turned up yet?

Dannn

Cheers for the info

What are the black levels like on the TV's when watching them in the dark / low lighting ?

dojj

iTrader: (3)

the only thing that is a bit funny with the plasma is that sometimes you get a circling of the colours, there isn't a smooth transition between light and dark but you get several layers of a visable different shade across the zcreen

it only happens on these big wide panning shot of the sky of something, but it's made me think tehre's somehting wrong from time to time

the lcd doesn't have this problem, it just gets darker and darker the more of an angle you look at it from

Dannn

What resolution is your plasma ?

dojj

iTrader: (3)

the other than about the plasma is that it puts out a lot of heat but the lcd one doesn't
something else you may want to look into, especially if it's been on a stand in the shop for a few hours and been playing for a while

it's not just from the screen either, it's from the rear of th unit too