Home entertainment experts.........
19-03-2007, 06:42 PM
#42
Originally Posted by frog
Originally Posted by Thrush
What I think the above is basically saying is your amp does not decode the true Dolby digital Surround 5.1 found on 99.9 of DVD's. Nor does it do the DTS sound track on the majority of discs. So you aren't getting a "true" surround sound soundtrack, as Pro Logic is a "fake" surround sound - you can apply Pro Logic to many stereo sources - such as radio, normal TV etc... The amp's technology takes this 2ch source and creates it's own discrete "surround" mix using phasing and relocation from one speaker to another....
To enjoy true surround sound, I think it's time for a new amp
To enjoy true surround sound, I think it's time for a new amp
This isn't entirely true, Pro-Logic was used in cinemas in the old days.
A Pro-Logic sound track actually contains the center and rear surround sound information which a pro-logic amp will be able to extract and play through the centre and rear speakers. The front ones receive the standard stereo signal.
The way it was done was such that a normal amp would play it in stereo and a pro-logic amp would play the surround sound properly.
Now, and this is where the main difference is, the rear speakers both played exactly the same thing, so you couldn't get left/right effects at the back, also, the range of frequencies available to the rears was quite limited.
Dolby digital and DTS are pure 5.1 encoding systems which requires a digital connection (not the white and red RCAs anymore) and have 6 (5 + 1) dedicated full range channels, so each speaker can play its own thing, and a full range of frequencies (from bass to treble) is available to the rear speakers.
DTS is arguably better than Dolby Digital because it's uncompressed.
The original 6.1 used a mix of Dolby Digital (and DTS) and Pro-logic to decode a 6th rear channel out of the stereo sound from the rears which was in effect a centre-rear channel, this created a fuller surround sound again. This 6th channel was limited in bandwidth as per pro-logic of old.
More recently, full digital 6.1 and 7.1 has been available where the 6th and 7th (two side speakers, two rear speakers) channels are again full range.
There is now talk about 9.1, 11.1, etc... but to be honest, unless you have a dedicated room, 5.1 is plenty enough. Not many DVD's are encoded with 6.1 or 7.1 in any case.
Back to pro-logic, some amps were able to fake surround sound from a pure stereo source (e.g. a CD, TV news) which had no surround content, creating the impression that you were immersed in the sound, and yet, it was all artificial compared to a movie which had surround sound encoded in its soundtrack.
The new HD (Tru-HD, etc...) are no different to 5.1, except that the resolution of the sound encoded on the DVD (HD or BlueRay only) is higher, suggesting the quality of the sound improves significantly, but it's still 5.1/6.1/7.1 for now, more channels may well come in the future.
Phew...
I've just realised that I've just re-written most of what you quoted in one of your above posts
I'm impressed But one thing to add - DD5.1 and DTS 5.1 can be carried via analogue leads if using the 6x RCA multichannel output on a DVD player to the 6x RCA multichannel inputs on an AV amp. I tested this with my amp to make sure they were working fine. I knew DD5.1 would work, but was very much surprised to find that a DTS soundtrack also played through them!
19-03-2007, 07:24 PM
#44
Well no, not really.. Least not if you want to listen to the proper encoded 5.1 audio track anyway, as without them connected, the channels will simply be missing.... "Virtual" surround is pants, and whilst decent front speakers can offer a much bass, well near, as a smaller pair plus a sub, you will simply be missing channels if you don't bother connecting up the centre and sub when playing back a proper 5.1 or DTS audio track....
19-03-2007, 07:50 PM
#45
Guest
Posts: n/a
Pah, whats wrong with 2ch? all this room full of speakers bollox is a bit OTT for watching a few downloaded flicks at home 
Sorry , I'm on the windup
Seriously though, I couldnt imagine listenting to my music through a PC based multi speaker setup, I suppose its ok for films and that, but for music?
Sorry , I'm on the windup
Seriously though, I couldnt imagine listenting to my music through a PC based multi speaker setup, I suppose its ok for films and that, but for music?
19-03-2007, 07:55 PM
#46
Nah, I agree on the music front, unless of course it was encoded for multichannel. I have a few albums encoded specifically for multichannel audio;
Pink Floyd - "Dark side of the Moon", in 2ch stereo, 4ch "Quadraphonic" and also in 5.1 (SACD) and 5.1 (Dolby Digital)
Pink Floyd - "Wish you were Here" - 2ch stereo and 4ch Quadraphonic
The Eagles - "Hell Freezes Over" - DTS 5.1 CD
Metallica "Black Album" - DTS 5.1 CD
These, when played on a proper system sound INSANE....
But yes, for the majority of music, and "normal" stereo 2ch music, it's far better to play in 2ch than in multichannel......
Pink Floyd - "Dark side of the Moon", in 2ch stereo, 4ch "Quadraphonic" and also in 5.1 (SACD) and 5.1 (Dolby Digital)
Pink Floyd - "Wish you were Here" - 2ch stereo and 4ch Quadraphonic
The Eagles - "Hell Freezes Over" - DTS 5.1 CD
Metallica "Black Album" - DTS 5.1 CD
These, when played on a proper system sound INSANE....
But yes, for the majority of music, and "normal" stereo 2ch music, it's far better to play in 2ch than in multichannel......
19-03-2007, 08:00 PM
#47
20K+ Super Poster.
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 23,377
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dan - you can get all in one surround packages that do a fair bit.
I have a Sharp 1 bit DAC setup in my bedroom, which is plenty, and takes the sound for the TV, PS2 etc through it.
I have a Sharp 1 bit DAC setup in my bedroom, which is plenty, and takes the sound for the TV, PS2 etc through it.
20-03-2007, 08:35 AM
#48
PassionFord Post Troll
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 2,690
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks Rich.
My problem is I already have a nice DVD player and most of the surround sound setups come with a built in DVD which I dont want!
Just want a simple amp and decent 5.1 setup really.
Also, probably a stupid question but if I connect up to NTL (virgin) for digital TV, can I use this connection to supply the freeview in the TV or does that only work through the arial?
Dan
My problem is I already have a nice DVD player and most of the surround sound setups come with a built in DVD which I dont want!
Just want a simple amp and decent 5.1 setup really.
Also, probably a stupid question
but if I connect up to NTL (virgin) for digital TV, can I use this connection to supply the freeview in the TV or does that only work through the arial?Dan
20-03-2007, 11:13 AM
#49
I've found that life I needed.. It's HERE!!
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,249
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by DanS
Thanks Rich.
My problem is I already have a nice DVD player and most of the surround sound setups come with a built in DVD which I dont want!
Just want a simple amp and decent 5.1 setup really.
Also, probably a stupid question but if I connect up to NTL (virgin) for digital TV, can I use this connection to supply the freeview in the TV or does that only work through the arial?
Dan
My problem is I already have a nice DVD player and most of the surround sound setups come with a built in DVD which I dont want!
Just want a simple amp and decent 5.1 setup really.
Also, probably a stupid question
but if I connect up to NTL (virgin) for digital TV, can I use this connection to supply the freeview in the TV or does that only work through the arial?Dan
Acoustic Solutions ds 1233
http://www.acousticsolutions.net/pro...mageField.y=21
I have one, cheap as chips and it even has an coxical digital input - does DTS and AC3 etc etc! Mine cost under Ł100 from ebay brand new..!
20-03-2007, 01:06 PM
#50
0-60 in 17 seconds (eek)
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Berkshire
Posts: 6,717
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Thrush
I'm impressed
Originally Posted by Thrush
But one thing to add - DD5.1 and DTS 5.1 can be carried via analogue leads if using the 6x RCA multichannel output on a DVD player to the 6x RCA multichannel inputs on an AV amp. I tested this with my amp to make sure they were working fine. I knew DD5.1 would work, but was very much surprised to find that a DTS soundtrack also played through them!
Originally Posted by Matt J
If you buy yourself some proper speakers you can do away with the sub and centre speaker
And I have a sub too 
20-03-2007, 03:51 PM
#51
20K+ Super Poster.
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Essex... and Birmingham!
Posts: 21,512
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Dannn
Also has anyone got experience of a TH42PX70 42" Panasonic Plasma ?
(btw I am not interested in all the bollocks about screen burn on plasmas etc!)
Dan
20-03-2007, 04:19 PM
#52
I've found that life I needed.. It's HERE!!
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,249
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Porkie
Originally Posted by Dannn
Also has anyone got experience of a TH42PX70 42" Panasonic Plasma ?
(btw I am not interested in all the bollocks about screen burn on plasmas etc!)
Dan
Can't see PDP 43 on the pioneer site, is it an older model ?
Do like the pioneers but they seems quite a bit more expensive espeically as they appear to come with no stand at all!
perhaps I should go for a 50"
http://www.panasonic.co.uk/plasma-tv/th50px70/index.htm
Might be too big for the fooking lounge!!!LOL
You had any problems with either Plasma ?
Dan
20-03-2007, 04:42 PM
#53
20K+ Super Poster.
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Essex... and Birmingham!
Posts: 21,512
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Nope, both been Mint. Some of my favourite ever things i have bought. Ever time I sit down for a watch I think 
So so so please. Renton has the same Pionner as me. You know what an UBER geek he is about things so he REALLY researched
had the Pionner 18 months and bought the Panasonic this Christmas if that helps. I will check model number of Pioneer
I am thinking about getting the 50' pionner actually now to replace the 43' The Pionner is wall mounted so the lack of a decent stand doesn't matter. Renton fitted and sunk all the wires in the wall and then built all the seperates and the games consoles AND a Glass fronted Beer fridge below them as well. Looks cool as fooook
We chould hook up mate. Bring the family around
So so so please. Renton has the same Pionner as me. You know what an UBER geek he is about things so he REALLY researchedhad the Pionner 18 months and bought the Panasonic this Christmas if that helps. I will check model number of Pioneer
I am thinking about getting the 50' pionner actually now to replace the 43'
The Pionner is wall mounted so the lack of a decent stand doesn't matter. Renton fitted and sunk all the wires in the wall and then built all the seperates and the games consoles AND a Glass fronted Beer fridge below them as well. Looks cool as fooook We chould hook up mate. Bring the family around
20-03-2007, 05:02 PM
#55
0-60 in 17 seconds (eek)
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Berkshire
Posts: 6,717
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Porkie,
The PDP43XDE was very well rated in its day and probably still is very very good.
Got the PDP427XD for xmas (as per above picture) and it's stunning. I love the piano black surround, not too keen on the silver surround that the panasonics have.
Was very tempted by the 50" but since we have a 6' projector screen to pull down for the big occasions, I didn't feel the need for the extra 8" for day to day viewing.
Sis in law bought a pio 4270XD last week end from currys for only Ł1100 (all things relative, this is cheap !!!). I am sure it could be got a lot cheaper on the internet.
If you feel the need for an upgrade I'd wait for the 8th generation which is due out soon
The PDP43XDE was very well rated in its day and probably still is very very good.
Got the PDP427XD for xmas (as per above picture) and it's stunning. I love the piano black surround, not too keen on the silver surround that the panasonics have.
Was very tempted by the 50" but since we have a 6' projector screen to pull down for the big occasions, I didn't feel the need for the extra 8" for day to day viewing.
Sis in law bought a pio 4270XD last week end from currys for only Ł1100 (all things relative, this is cheap !!!). I am sure it could be got a lot cheaper on the internet.
If you feel the need for an upgrade I'd wait for the 8th generation which is due out soon
20-03-2007, 05:16 PM
#58
0-60 in 17 seconds (eek)
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Berkshire
Posts: 6,717
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Porkie
Thanks, great Info You clearly know your stuff and will be talking to you before I buy any new home stuff if thats ok
You clearly know your stuff and will be talking to you before I buy any new home stuff if thats ok PS: the 7th generation pioneer 507XD is likely to drop significantly in price over the next few months as they try and offload them prior to the 8th generation coming out
Dannn
Stop press, pioneer do a 60" now... http://www.pioneer.co.uk/uk/products...7XD/index.html
only Ł5,199.00
20-03-2007, 05:24 PM
#61
0-60 in 17 seconds (eek)
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Berkshire
Posts: 6,717
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
www.froogle.co.uk might save you some money then
If you are in that price range you should check out this baby
http://www.pioneer.co.uk/uk/products...0EX/index.html
full 1080p and rave reviews everywhere.
Ł4,899.95 here: http://www.avland.co.uk/pioneer/pdp5000ex/pdp5000ex.htm
Might just have saved you a few quid
For those who are still unsure about plasma or lcd, look here:
http://www.plasma-lcd-facts.co.uk/home/
It was commissioned by Pioneer, Hitachi and Panasonic so you could think the results are biased, but since Panasonic sell LCD TVs, I am inclined to think the results are fair.
Quick guide to download from here: http://www.plasma-lcd-facts.co.uk/_p...uide-en-gb.pdf
If you are in that price range you should check out this baby
http://www.pioneer.co.uk/uk/products...0EX/index.html
full 1080p and rave reviews everywhere.
Ł4,899.95 here: http://www.avland.co.uk/pioneer/pdp5000ex/pdp5000ex.htm
Might just have saved you a few quid
For those who are still unsure about plasma or lcd, look here:
http://www.plasma-lcd-facts.co.uk/home/
It was commissioned by Pioneer, Hitachi and Panasonic so you could think the results are biased, but since Panasonic sell LCD TVs, I am inclined to think the results are fair.
Quick guide to download from here: http://www.plasma-lcd-facts.co.uk/_p...uide-en-gb.pdf
22-03-2007, 06:01 PM
#62
frog, i have come to the colclusion that you know too much about telly's and stuff
with your knowledge, and thrush's combined, you may be able to open up your own little corner of pf supplying technofacts to us lot who are as technical as homer simpson
with your knowledge, and thrush's combined, you may be able to open up your own little corner of pf supplying technofacts to us lot who are as technical as homer simpson
22-03-2007, 11:26 PM
#63
0-60 in 17 seconds (eek)
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Berkshire
Posts: 6,717
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by dojj
frog, i have come to the colclusion that you know too much about telly's and stuff
with your knowledge, and thrush's combined, you may be able to open up your own little corner of pf supplying technofacts to us lot who are as technical as homer simpson
with your knowledge, and thrush's combined, you may be able to open up your own little corner of pf supplying technofacts to us lot who are as technical as homer simpson
Maybe we could be one of these tech advisor things people keep talking about
Edited to add: More technical drivel which isn't car related here https://passionford.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=259963
25-03-2007, 11:37 AM
#64
saw the post, tried to read it, failed miserably
there hsould be something on the internet that you can put in all the things that you want and out hsould come a list of things that will fit the bill
then we can stick them here and find out which one is th ebest
but nothings ever that easy is it
there hsould be something on the internet that you can put in all the things that you want and out hsould come a list of things that will fit the bill
then we can stick them here and find out which one is th ebest
but nothings ever that easy is it
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
nipper.1
Ford KUGA
12
30-05-2022 07:39 PM
PRO-LINE MOTORSPORT
General Car Related Discussion.
5
28-09-2015 09:54 PM
