Chip

iTrader: (3)

stu I'm not familiar with the details of the st setup. can you just retube the hotwire part of the sensor into a bigger diameter pipe?
we've just done that with a vauxhall one to allow it to read a smaller percentage of the air that flows through it so that the big four oh is back in range as each volt now means more lb per min of air.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

nothing stu can do really without starting to change the hardware as well which would defeat the point.

sadly a function of stu's job is he puts a lot of time in to open up doors for others to walk through too.
the poetic justice of course is that it kind of serves him right as the first step in his job is basically to rip off the manufacturers software in the first place.

don't take that the wrong way stu as I fully understand the difference in what you are doing and the difficulty of it compared to someone just copying your hard work in two secs flat with I chip copier!

Benni

Fair enough.

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

We could do that Chipper and ive considered it quite a lot over the last week or so but i dont have the time for the trial and error on a car thats not mine, not to mention teh finances to keep buying MAF tubes off OEM.s who can take days to get things into stock. Its also especially awkward as i have to rewrite the MAF transfer map every time i do it, which is grim if it doesnt work.

Also, i need it to be an off the shelf easily obtained solution that literally just plugs in where the old one was, i dont want to have any mounting issues if possible. Mind you, nothings set in stone and that may still be an option... if i can find a tube big enough thats in mass production and accepts the current MAF footprint.

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

For the last 2 months i would love another 8 or 10 pal, and i would fully utilise them.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Fair point Stu, its the massive difference between you and us "home tuners" in that everything you do has to be quickly and efficiently reproducable between cars, as opposed to just being something you do once and dont care how many hours it takes!

You have the worst job in the world in many ways, its so close to being perfect, its just when you actually have to start considering the customers and economics that it turns from fun into a nightmare I reckon

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Agree 100% mate. Building one offs is fun. Building repeatable conversions is just stressfull and hastle ridden.

sailorbob

Since when is altering calibration data ripping off the manufacturers? This is like criticising a cam manufacturer for making a cam that runs in your engine but not making the whole engine. If you were taking the code and running it on someone else's hardware I'd agree but this isn't the case.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Since the fact its exactly as you say, you are altering it, you first rip off the manufacturers code to work out how it works, then you alter it, you are still running their actual software just with different data for some of it.

As for the cam example, given that the way most aftermarket cams are made is to start with the already developed manufacturers cam and then just tweak it a bit, I would say this also falls into the same category of being based on essentially "stealing" the development they did to get to that point initially.

Im not saying there is anythign wrong with that as such, but anyone who starts their development by first copying someone elses finnishing point to use as their own starting point has to be aware that someone else may do the same with their finnishing point and just passing it off as their own.

sailorbob

I suppose what I was getting at is that by altering the original code you aren't 'ripping off' the manufacturers especially when you consider that they have been paid once for their work when the car was first sold. But those who copy your work are because they are taking the results your hard earned work and passing it off as there own without any recompense. At the end of the day this results in us (the punters) being short changed, it takes away the incentive for the person doing all the hard work to carry on developing stuff.

As you can probably tell I don't like this kind of copying and I feel that those who do cannot be trusted to sell you something that’s fit for purpose. Quite possibly the worst example I've seen of a purchaser being conned by a chip vendor is them being sold an 'uprated chip' that contained completely stock Mondeo 2.0l code!

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Bob, im sure we agree on everything but the semantics here, so I dont think we should carry on this "who is standing on the shoulders of who" debate anymore.

But suffice to say, I agree that people who blindly copy chips and sell them are sucking the life out of the tuning industry and are largely responsible for why this took 12 years to appears, as the reality is Stu hasnt been particuarly economically motivated to do this probably for that reason, if he thought no one would copy him this would be almost a license to print money and no doubt he would have done it years ago as he would have been in a position where rather than needing a kind customer to lend him a car, it would have been a sensible investment to buy one to develop on.

sailorbob

Agreed

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

We did infact discuss this once before a few years ago, but decided there was no point us throwing 15K at a project just for everyone to sell it on as if they made it.

The same discussion happened with the closed loop idea, but we have far better security for the L8 so i bought a saff and the rest is history.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

If nothing else stu, the discerning customer will be able to quickly identify all the tuners who without ANY doubt, are a bunch of thieving cunts when they see who is offering this in the near future

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Thats only on a par with "nothing else" im afraid as the time and effort to get this to work well has been considerable, and we are a good few hours and many many ££s from the finish line yet, as is poor old Will who is paying for any non mapping type hardware utilised.
(Injectors and pumps)

To cap it all, i may need to change injectors to anoter type yet...

Chip

iTrader: (3)

As I said, its a shit job mate, go and manage a branch of topshop or something is my advice

On the plus side at least you know you will get about 10 sales out of it, one each to all the people who are going to rip you off or are just very cruious

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Dont be daft... in this day and age, those 10 will just admit to each other they are all useless tw@'s and chip in to buy one between them.

They will then enlist an 11th and 12th tw@ to help them figure out which way up the injectors go, whilst tw@ 3 will be on the phone to me asking if the pump is really a necessity as cash is tight...

bud-weis

Dave Henshall

a q regarding the conversion,

is the new chip one that sits on the diag port like the old one did - or is it a completely reporgrammed ecu..?

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Diag Port.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Stu, actually scrap the topshop career, ive seen how you dress, it would never work, and you would be wasted, you are however perfectly qualified for a a career in comedy somewhere that was genius humour, mainly cause its actually true

AndyBrew

I spent a couple of hours with sailorbob the other day and found it all very interesting mind you the assembly language made me feel quite sick and reminded me of a bitch of a module at uni

when you see how easy it was for him to download the hex dump off the ECU its bizarre, and then he showed me the changes that Superchips/Powerchips make and the way they control boost fuck me scary stuff

it appears that the only difference between a COSY and an ANTI is a bug fix, which means the ANTI is the bug free program I assume this is good news?

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

He's a very pleasant and indeed knowledgeable chap when it comes to this EEC System Andy.


Thats why we wonder whether to bother at times, the system is far too easy to copy.


Scary in what way?


The upgrade will be available for all 3 ecu's no problem at all as the porting over job looks like it will be simple enough with no apparent problems.

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

You appear to have somehow missunderstood my personal evaluation of the situation and thought that some part of it was meant to be comical. This was not the case...

sailorbob

How the MAP sensor and amal valve settings are changed

Thanks to Andy for letting me loose on his ecu and it's always good to meet another enthusiast

ECU Monitor Enthusiast

iTrader: (1)

Have you discovered the stack overflow issue yet

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Ah, got you. Slightly crude but perfectly effective for the end goal.

Simon, not to mention teh poxy EGR problems.

Bit shonky for a production car calibration IMO.
SailorBob spotted an interesting fault years ago that we discovered recently was updated in one of the cals... Its literally as though the finished software was never actually tested by anyone. lol.

ECU Monitor Enthusiast

iTrader: (1)

I actually me the guy who wrote the eec4 turbo version software at
Dunton years ago.
This was when I did the development work on Fords FDS2000 diagnostic
system for a company called GenRad.

A nice american chap as he told me it was rushed for the european market
and had more bugs than windows

sailorbob

I want one, I'm stuck with an NGS+ that's far from ideal when using European ecu's

Why am I not surprised, the code is basically from a normally aspirated ecu with the boost side on things tacked on - the main call doesn't even sit in the task list!

AndyBrew

jeez I thought it was only us application programmers that managed things like that

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

I can get these if you need one...

Porkie

iTrader: (1)

Guilty as charged

I ONLY go in here and Cosworth parts

sailorbob

No, but I don't have a decent eec-iv simulator to code step with. I know a guy who's developing one but it's a long way off and trying to figure out a proprietary cpu that's got no official information published on it is mighty hard.

Hmm, how much and the eternal question can it datalog?

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Unsure, but via E-Mail i will put you in direct contact with the chap mate.

sailorbob

Great, thanks

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Your welcome.

This very serious and somewhat interesting topic has now been cleared of childish drivel by certain members.

Anonymous

*HANDBAGS AT 10 PACES*

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Lambchop

iTrader: (1)

What?

Get in the muppet room man its a great laugh!

Stu.H

Yeh, but Will wont be charged the same bill as if he bought a standard ST escos and said get me 350bhp.

So good for both parties and indeed the whole Ford scene.

Cant wait to see the results