FAO - Stu @ Motorsport Developments... REF 350BHp T28 Escos?
#41
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stu I'm not familiar with the details of the st setup. can you just retube the hotwire part of the sensor into a bigger diameter pipe?
we've just done that with a vauxhall one to allow it to read a smaller percentage of the air that flows through it so that the big four oh is back in range as each volt now means more lb per min of air.
we've just done that with a vauxhall one to allow it to read a smaller percentage of the air that flows through it so that the big four oh is back in range as each volt now means more lb per min of air.
#42
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Originally Posted by Benni
Can you not Copyright the software?? Or will they just copy it anyway?
sadly a function of stu's job is he puts a lot of time in to open up doors for others to walk through too.
the poetic justice of course is that it kind of serves him right as the first step in his job is basically to rip off the manufacturers software in the first place.
don't take that the wrong way stu as I fully understand the difference in what you are doing and the difficulty of it compared to someone just copying your hard work in two secs flat with I chip copier!
#44
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Originally Posted by Chip-3Door
Stu I'm not familiar with the details of the st setup. can you just retube the hotwire part of the sensor into a bigger diameter pipe?
we've just done that with a vauxhall one to allow it to read a smaller percentage of the air that flows through it so that the big four oh is back in range as each volt now means more lb per min of air.
we've just done that with a vauxhall one to allow it to read a smaller percentage of the air that flows through it so that the big four oh is back in range as each volt now means more lb per min of air.
Also, i need it to be an off the shelf easily obtained solution that literally just plugs in where the old one was, i dont want to have any mounting issues if possible. Mind you, nothings set in stone and that may still be an option... if i can find a tube big enough thats in mass production and accepts the current MAF footprint.
#46
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Fair point Stu, its the massive difference between you and us "home tuners" in that everything you do has to be quickly and efficiently reproducable between cars, as opposed to just being something you do once and dont care how many hours it takes!
You have the worst job in the world in many ways, its so close to being perfect, its just when you actually have to start considering the customers and economics that it turns from fun into a nightmare I reckon
You have the worst job in the world in many ways, its so close to being perfect, its just when you actually have to start considering the customers and economics that it turns from fun into a nightmare I reckon
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#47
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Originally Posted by Chip-3Door
You have the worst job in the world in many ways, its so close to being perfect, its just when you actually have to start considering the customers and economics that it turns from fun into a nightmare I reckon ![Confused](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_confused.gif)
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#48
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Originally Posted by Chip-3Door
the poetic justice of course is that it kind of serves him right as the first step in his job is basically to rip off the manufacturers software in the first place.
#49
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Originally Posted by sailorbob
Originally Posted by Chip-3Door
the poetic justice of course is that it kind of serves him right as the first step in his job is basically to rip off the manufacturers software in the first place.
As for the cam example, given that the way most aftermarket cams are made is to start with the already developed manufacturers cam and then just tweak it a bit, I would say this also falls into the same category of being based on essentially "stealing" the development they did to get to that point initially.
Im not saying there is anythign wrong with that as such, but anyone who starts their development by first copying someone elses finnishing point to use as their own starting point has to be aware that someone else may do the same with their finnishing point and just passing it off as their own.
#50
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I suppose what I was getting at is that by altering the original code you aren't 'ripping off' the manufacturers especially when you consider that they have been paid once for their work when the car was first sold. But those who copy your work are because they are taking the results your hard earned work and passing it off as there own without any recompense. At the end of the day this results in us (the punters) being short changed, it takes away the incentive for the person doing all the hard work to carry on developing stuff.
As you can probably tell I don't like this kind of copying and I feel that those who do cannot be trusted to sell you something that’s fit for purpose. Quite possibly the worst example I've seen of a purchaser being conned by a chip vendor is them being sold an 'uprated chip' that contained completely stock Mondeo 2.0l code!
As you can probably tell I don't like this kind of copying and I feel that those who do cannot be trusted to sell you something that’s fit for purpose. Quite possibly the worst example I've seen of a purchaser being conned by a chip vendor is them being sold an 'uprated chip' that contained completely stock Mondeo 2.0l code!
#51
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Originally Posted by sailorbob
I suppose what I was getting at is that by altering the original code you aren't 'ripping off' the manufacturers especially when you consider that they have been paid once for their work when the car was first sold. But those who copy your work are because they are taking the results your hard earned work and passing it off as there own without any recompense. At the end of the day this results in us (the punters) being short changed, it takes away the incentive for the person doing all the hard work to carry on developing stuff.
As you can probably tell I don't like this kind of copying and I feel that those who do cannot be trusted to sell you something that’s fit for purpose. Quite possibly the worst example I've seen of a purchaser being conned by a chip vendor is them being sold an 'uprated chip' that contained completely stock Mondeo 2.0l code!
As you can probably tell I don't like this kind of copying and I feel that those who do cannot be trusted to sell you something that’s fit for purpose. Quite possibly the worst example I've seen of a purchaser being conned by a chip vendor is them being sold an 'uprated chip' that contained completely stock Mondeo 2.0l code!
But suffice to say, I agree that people who blindly copy chips and sell them are sucking the life out of the tuning industry and are largely responsible for why this took 12 years to appears, as the reality is Stu hasnt been particuarly economically motivated to do this probably for that reason, if he thought no one would copy him this would be almost a license to print money and no doubt he would have done it years ago as he would have been in a position where rather than needing a kind customer to lend him a car, it would have been a sensible investment to buy one to develop on.
#52
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Originally Posted by Chip-3Door
im sure we agree on everything but the semantics here, so I dont think we should carry on this "who is standing on the shoulders of who" debate anymore.
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#53
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Originally Posted by Chip-3Door
Stu hasnt been particuarly economically motivated to do this probably for that reason, if he thought no one would copy him this would be almost a license to print money and no doubt he would have done it years ago as he would have been in a position where rather than needing a kind customer to lend him a car, it would have been a sensible investment to buy one to develop on.
The same discussion happened with the closed loop idea, but we have far better security for the L8 so i bought a saff and the rest is history.
#55
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Originally Posted by Chip-3Door
If nothing else Stu, the discerning customer will be able to quickly identify all the tuners who without ANY doubt, are a bunch of thieving cunts when they see who is offering this in the near future ![Surprised](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/bigcry.gif)
![Surprised](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/bigcry.gif)
(Injectors and pumps)
To cap it all, i may need to change injectors to anoter type yet...
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#57
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Originally Posted by Chip-3Door
On the plus side at least you know you will get about 10 sales out of it, one each to all the people who are going to rip you off or are just very cruious ![Surprised](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/bigcry.gif)
![Surprised](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/bigcry.gif)
They will then enlist an 11th and 12th tw@ to help them figure out which way up the injectors go, whilst tw@ 3 will be on the phone to me asking if the pump is really a necessity as cash is tight...
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#62
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I spent a couple of hours with sailorbob the other day and found it all very interesting mind you the assembly language made me feel quite sick and reminded me of a bitch of a module at uni
when you see how easy it was for him to download the hex dump off the ECU its bizarre, and then he showed me the changes that Superchips/Powerchips make and the way they control boost fuck me scary stuff
it appears that the only difference between a COSY and an ANTI is a bug fix, which means the ANTI is the bug free program
I assume this is good news?
![Surprised](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/bigcry.gif)
![Surprised](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/bigcry.gif)
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when you see how easy it was for him to download the hex dump off the ECU its bizarre, and then he showed me the changes that Superchips/Powerchips make and the way they control boost fuck me scary stuff
![Sad](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif)
![Sad](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif)
it appears that the only difference between a COSY and an ANTI is a bug fix, which means the ANTI is the bug free program
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#63
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He's a very pleasant and indeed knowledgeable chap when it comes to this EEC System Andy. ![god](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/dieu.gif)
Thats why we wonder whether to bother at times, the system is far too easy to copy. ![Sad](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif)
Scary in what way?
The upgrade will be available for all 3 ecu's no problem at all as the porting over job looks like it will be simple enough with no apparent problems.
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Originally Posted by AndyBrew
when you see how easy it was for him to download the hex dump off the ECU its bizarre,
![Sad](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif)
and then he showed me the changes that Superchips/Powerchips make and the way they control boost fuck me scary stuff
![Sad](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif)
![Sad](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif)
it appears that the only difference between a COSY and an ANTI is a bug fix, which means the ANTI is the bug free program
I assume this is good news?
![Top](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/smile011.gif)
#65
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Originally Posted by Stu @ M Developments
Scary in what way?
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Thanks to Andy for letting me loose on his ecu and it's always good to meet another enthusiast
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#67
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Originally Posted by sailorbob
Originally Posted by Stu @ M Developments
Scary in what way?
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Simon, not to mention teh poxy EGR problems.
Bit shonky for a production car calibration IMO.
SailorBob spotted an interesting fault years ago that we discovered recently was updated in one of the cals... Its literally as though the finished software was never actually tested by anyone. lol.
#68
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I actually me the guy who wrote the eec4 turbo version software at
Dunton years ago.
This was when I did the development work on Fords FDS2000 diagnostic
system for a company called GenRad.
A nice american chap as he told me it was rushed for the european market
and had more bugs than windows
Dunton years ago.
This was when I did the development work on Fords FDS2000 diagnostic
system for a company called GenRad.
A nice american chap as he told me it was rushed for the european market
and had more bugs than windows
![Surprised](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/bigcry.gif)
#69
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Originally Posted by SECS
This was when I did the development work on Fords FDS2000 diagnostic system for a company called GenRad.
![Surprised](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/bigcry.gif)
Originally Posted by SECS
A nice american chap as he told me it was rushed for the european market and had more bugs than windows
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Originally Posted by SECS
Have you discovered the stack overflow issue yet ![Surprised](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/bigcry.gif)
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#71
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Originally Posted by sailorbob
Originally Posted by SECS
This was when I did the development work on Fords FDS2000 diagnostic system for a company called GenRad.
![Surprised](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/bigcry.gif)
#72
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Originally Posted by Stu @ M Developments
Thats the problem with this place, too many people stay ONLY in general discussion, and miss about 80% of the most interesting topics. ![Surprised](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/bigcry.gif)
![Surprised](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/bigcry.gif)
![Red Faced](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_redface.gif)
I ONLY go in here and Cosworth parts
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#73
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Originally Posted by SECS
Have you discovered the stack overflow issue yet
Originally Posted by Stu @ M Developments
I can get these if you need one
#74
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Originally Posted by sailorbob
Originally Posted by SECS
Have you discovered the stack overflow issue yet
Originally Posted by Stu @ M Developments
I can get these if you need one
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#79
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Originally Posted by Porkie
Originally Posted by Stu @ M Developments
Thats the problem with this place, too many people stay ONLY in general discussion, and miss about 80% of the most interesting topics. ![Surprised](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/bigcry.gif)
![Surprised](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/bigcry.gif)
![Red Faced](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_redface.gif)
I ONLY go in here and Cosworth parts
![Red Faced](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_redface.gif)
![Surprised](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/shocked.gif)
Get in the muppet room man its a great laugh!
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#80
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Originally Posted by Stu @ M Developments
Originally Posted by Chip-3Door
If nothing else Stu, the discerning customer will be able to quickly identify all the tuners who without ANY doubt, are a bunch of thieving cunts when they see who is offering this in the near future ![Surprised](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/bigcry.gif)
![Surprised](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/bigcry.gif)
(Injectors and pumps)
To cap it all, i may need to change injectors to anoter type yet...
![Wall](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/wall.gif)
![Surprised](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/bigcry.gif)
So good for both parties and indeed the whole Ford scene.
Cant wait to see the results
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