may be buying a 450bhp sapphire pls advise
11-02-2007, 02:22 PM
#1
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may be buying a 450bhp sapphire pls advise
seen a car im very interested in,but think it still has standard box and running gear. its a late 4x4. what i want to know is for a car thats running 450bhp is the gearbox and transmission up to it?
11-02-2007, 02:27 PM
#5
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ok heres the spec, holds 2 bar of boost. all work done by karl norris
200 Block bored to .50 0versize
Low Compression mahle pistons .50 oversize
New Con Rods
High pressure oil pump
Block wire rung and group A head gasket
BD14 Camshafts
New valve guides and stem seals
Valves re-seated
Valve cutouts
New Cam followers
Powder coated cam cover
Level 8 Engine management with PECTEL baby board
Grey 403 injectors
Aeroquip fuel line
Group A dumpvalve
RS500 intercooler
RAD-TEC racing radiator
Group A coil
909 motorsport ignition leads
Denso Iridium spark plugs
GT30 Turbo
ITG Air filter
Full set of silicone hoses
Group A fuel pump
Mongoose stainless steel exhaust
AP 6 paddle clutch
200 Block bored to .50 0versize
Low Compression mahle pistons .50 oversize
New Con Rods
High pressure oil pump
Block wire rung and group A head gasket
BD14 Camshafts
New valve guides and stem seals
Valves re-seated
Valve cutouts
New Cam followers
Powder coated cam cover
Level 8 Engine management with PECTEL baby board
Grey 403 injectors
Aeroquip fuel line
Group A dumpvalve
RS500 intercooler
RAD-TEC racing radiator
Group A coil
909 motorsport ignition leads
Denso Iridium spark plugs
GT30 Turbo
ITG Air filter
Full set of silicone hoses
Group A fuel pump
Mongoose stainless steel exhaust
AP 6 paddle clutch
11-02-2007, 02:31 PM
#7
saff is working!!!...atm
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the proper answer is Yes it all needs upgrading....but if u dont set the wheels alight at the lights etc it MIGHT be alright....but get saving just incase...i'm in the same boat i cant afford a Proper box at the moment
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11-02-2007, 02:36 PM
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ok so whats the point in having 450bhp and not being able to drive it incase the fragile little thing breaks! ill probably detune it to a reliable 350 then
11-02-2007, 02:38 PM
#12
Originally Posted by jaiscossie
big wig? what with the comment? is that a shit spec then or summit?
HUGE spec list!lol,but then you foiled my plans so the crying can go towards when you look into the cost of uprated 4x4 transmissions! 
11-02-2007, 02:41 PM
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3rd gear is the main worry mate, just dont hammer it in the low gears and it will be fine. A fixit kit box is prob the best option, have a look at R&B motorsports website, think its about 3.5K all in for the built box 
11-02-2007, 02:42 PM
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Engine spec seems very good - see if it was Norris who built it. If he did, then you have no troubles at all with the engine.
The transmission will say goodbye with a few hard starts though unless it is suitably uprated.
My advice - rip out all that shitty 4x4 shit, and convert it back to 2WD
JJ
The transmission will say goodbye with a few hard starts though unless it is suitably uprated.
My advice - rip out all that shitty 4x4 shit, and convert it back to 2WD
JJ
11-02-2007, 02:42 PM
#15
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lol how much you looking at to upgrade,what would need to be done first? just a rough idea? to see if i can afford to run the thing. oh and i would be driving it a 20 mile round trip to work every day,is this gonna be alot more juicy than my old 350bhp saff on dark greens?
11-02-2007, 02:46 PM
#16
reyland quote 3075 quid for an uprated gear set fitted to your box,then you need to sort the diffs! i know rear ones are about a grand from quaife,then probly the same on the front and youll also need a bigger casing too on the front diff so thats er....LOTS! probably 5 or 6 grand!!
so thats er....LOTS! probably 5 or 6 grand!!
11-02-2007, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by jaiscossie
lol how much you looking at to upgrade,what would need to be done first? just a rough idea? to see if i can afford to run the thing. oh and i would be driving it a 20 mile round trip to work every day,is this gonna be alot more juicy than my old 350bhp saff on dark greens?
As far as efficiency is concerned, this will depend entirely on how you drive it
. If it hasnt already had it (didnt look), if you bought the closed loop conversion from MS Developments, it should ensure that the off boost efficiency is as good as it should be. I went from Greens to Siemens 550cc injectors, and when being a good boy, the efficiency is only slightly worse than it was before!Dont expect miracles if you use your right foot though, expect fuel use to be copious!
Ref transmission, to be honest this is where it can get a little expensive. I dont have a 4x4, so to be honest dont know much about this. The 2wd gear is pretty much up to the job up to that level so long as not too many drag starts!
I think that Norris put some info on his website on this. Long story short - diffs should be upgraded to ATB jobs, and the transmission I have no idea on!!!
JJ
11-02-2007, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by jaiscossie
is it not possible to detune that one to a reliable power?
Better off with a proper stage 3 instead, it would drive better.
JJ
11-02-2007, 03:49 PM
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Depends who you ask, but generally goes as follows;
Low comp means that you can run lots of boost without det, but it is a compromise. The higher the comp, generally the better the response off boost. WRC cars now run comp ratios of about 9:1 as they can with modern technology map them reliably for the 300bhp limit that they have!
In a nutshell, why put up with the compromise for 300 odd horsepower which you can easily run on std comp!!!!
Cue the low comp boys insisting that theirs are just as good as the std comp engines for throttle resp!
JJ
Low comp means that you can run lots of boost without det, but it is a compromise. The higher the comp, generally the better the response off boost. WRC cars now run comp ratios of about 9:1 as they can with modern technology map them reliably for the 300bhp limit that they have!
In a nutshell, why put up with the compromise for 300 odd horsepower which you can easily run on std comp!!!!
Cue the low comp boys insisting that theirs are just as good as the std comp engines for throttle resp!
JJ
11-02-2007, 03:53 PM
#27
my stg1 to 7.56:1 400bhp motor swap showeds little difference in driving at all. just a bigger bang when you put your foot down (and it cost more to fix an uprated engine when it broke!)
11-02-2007, 04:52 PM
#34
See the posts on Mullit / Mullet transmissions!
I have the same sort of power, and standard stuff will not last long.
You do need to budget £3k for a box and £800+ for diffs (one at each end!)
It's pricey, but worth it to use the car properly.
Si
I have the same sort of power, and standard stuff will not last long.
You do need to budget £3k for a box and £800+ for diffs (one at each end!)
It's pricey, but worth it to use the car properly.
Si
11-02-2007, 04:57 PM
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i had a saph that was about 420- 450 bhp and i was still on totally standard transmission and on average i put a gearbox in it every 2- 3 months but i didnt exactly take my time in it
11-02-2007, 05:20 PM
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i had a gearbox that lasted 6 months, if u take your time in 3rd gear then it doesnt normally break but after while i got bored and just waited for it to go bang
11-02-2007, 05:30 PM
#38
Originally Posted by JjCoDeX75
Engine spec seems very good - see if it was Norris who built it. If he did, then you have no troubles at all with the engine.
The transmission will say goodbye with a few hard starts though unless it is suitably uprated.
My advice - rip out all that shitty 4x4 shit, and convert it back to 2WD
JJ
The transmission will say goodbye with a few hard starts though unless it is suitably uprated.
My advice - rip out all that shitty 4x4 shit, and convert it back to 2WD
JJ
11-02-2007, 05:33 PM
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i have a std box in my car and they last about 2k on 450 bhp, a must is the front diff strengthening plate ( about £40 on ebay ) its had loads of stick last year !!!!
saving up for the reyland box........
saving up for the reyland box........
11-02-2007, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by col cos1
Originally Posted by JjCoDeX75
Engine spec seems very good - see if it was Norris who built it. If he did, then you have no troubles at all with the engine.
The transmission will say goodbye with a few hard starts though unless it is suitably uprated.
My advice - rip out all that shitty 4x4 shit, and convert it back to 2WD
JJ
The transmission will say goodbye with a few hard starts though unless it is suitably uprated.
My advice - rip out all that shitty 4x4 shit, and convert it back to 2WD
JJ
JJ
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