Martin-Hadland

iTrader: (2)

you might be able to hear it BUT to act quick enough might be another matter!

cossiedave

iTrader: (1)

so would you run a 600 bhp car on one pump and std fuel lines i think not it,s MAD MAD

Ian M500COS

Wasn't he using a 044, not an Aeromotive?

Mark Shead

So you have tested a 044 on stock lines No I thought not a 044 will out flow 4 1000cc injectors by over 10% so you you have 10% safety in fuel supply,
There was no dett and fueling where I wanted it to be which is the same as Rods even with 200hp of Nos on it,
Dett you can hear it and react quickly enough but look at the piston it melted not detted,
High back pressure caused a heat biuld up whch over heated the piston which caused it to fail.

Mark

Mark Shead

Mark

MAD Ade

iTrader: (1)

So many fucking experts on here, only a handfull actually know what they're talking about, even fewer have put their money where their mouths are and proved what their cars are capable of instead of just talking absolute bollocks.

Oh, we can all have 3 grand inlet manifolds etc., so the car looks like it could go out and win Pikes Peak, but it's having the balls to have a go at proving and not being affraid to fail, unlike some.

Gordon1

i think you may be right lol

Martin-Hadland

iTrader: (2)

I reckon I'm in agreement with that but maybe if the crown was a little thicker the failure could have been avoided?

Can you disclose what measures will now be taken so save Ade going through the same trauma again?

I would be going external wastegate turbo (I know they're a pain to package the wastegate pipework), I would look at crown thickness but if they are 6mm or there about (in the middle) then I would be ok with that and for now I would retain the 2wd manifold.

Not having a go, just genuinely interested!

Martin-Hadland

iTrader: (2)

Who is that aimed at??

Rod-Tarry

Ade my pal, I take this from the Cossie experts all the time, let it just go over your head, its easy for me . You will be next past 200mph mate & mine first past 215mph. We are blazing the trail while others just snipe with no experience of whats being attempted. Your car was one step too far for its Spec & lessons are learned the hard way. The piston that failed was the same as mine & thats did 10 official 200mph runs running over 800bhp so nowt wrong with the pistons, ive now moved on to attempt to keep things together at around 1000bhp no doubt with a few trail blazing problems on the way, but at least MAD will try. Mark had set & then monitored the fueling during the run so nowt wrong there. I found the limit of the standard YB block when the Power approached 900bhp & Ade found the limit of the 2wd manifold at around 650bhp. Not all have a non-restrictive budget like mine & this is an expensive old game. Ade will be back no doubt with Marks help with an engine that will run past the magic 200mph. Im right behind you Ade my friend & will be there on the day. Keep flying the MAD flag & lets push the game on.
Have a merry Christmas one & all
Rod

MAD Ade

iTrader: (1)

Not you Martin, a certain gobshite down this neck of the woods.

MAD Ade

iTrader: (1)

Cheers Rod.

Anonymous

Martin i assume the wanker comment was aimed at me? ...and please dont pm me saying i have ripped you off for 30 quid plus postage i have had no invoice just one phonecall whilst placing an order to tell me the cost of the parts which i dont know wether i am using yet..i am sorry its inconvienced you and i hope the money that i owe hasnt meant you go without this christmas.


Bit surprised to hear ade is only running a std fuel line as i thought it was important to go up a size over 500bhp..i have ...but if you have tested it then i guess its ok...the cosworth amazes me on many occasions on how much overkill was used on a 204bhp road car!

CossieRich

iTrader: (1)

Am glad Mark posted. Cleared up 9 pages in 2 posts. I see the experts who quote theorys have disappeared under the rock they came from. Mark and Martin are the only true experts on this thread. along with maybe mpsort but not heard of him. Mike knows his stuff, but not on the same level as the 2 M's

Phil, you aint a wanker mate, you just have a habit of winding people up

Ade,

Although im not as experienced in this high speed cossie game as yourself and Rodney, if i can be of any help AT ALL, let me know.

Anonymous

Rich....my first post just said a simplified version of what mark said but everyone just shot me down

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Rich,
As you very well know, I don't post at weekends, but I was interested enough in Mark's response to log on .

In response to your comments, I full admit to NOT being as knowledgeable as Mark and Martin, but I would point out that from the picture posted, both Martin and myself reached the same conclusion as each other without ANY consultation . What does that say?

Also Mark is saying EXACTLY the same thing as us about back-pressure being the issue, the only difference being, he attributes it to the 2wd manifold, whereas I believe it to be the internally gated turbo that is at fault. So same difference again .

After the exchange of comments, I pointed Harvey to the thread as well, and as soon as he saw the piston, he said the same thing - heat build up due to back-pressure. He also added a bit of useful information, which lead ME to continue with my hypothesis about the turbo - and that was that he was sent a GT35 with an internal wastegate (he mentioned something about it being an Owen Developments turbo?), but on assesment of the turbine, he sent it straight back, as was of the opinion, that it would cause too much back pressure and would not be suitable for running 600bhp through it.

Obviously any tuner worth his salt will be measuring the back-pressure on a new turbo, so hopefully Mark can post this measurement up, it will confirm or deny my hypothesis .

As to Mark thinking that it is to promote me or my business in anyway , it was only to help Ade as much as possible and nothing more, as IMO, he is the best MAD person within the gang, hence why both Martin and myself are keen to see any possible problems ironed out before the next build, as it would be soul destroying to have a third engine expire through NO FAULT OF HIS OWN .

If anything we have said helps in any way, then I will be VERY happy. Unfortunately, any help or advice is seen as scoring points and not taken in the way intended. Next time I will keep any information I have that may be of assistance contained to either a PM to the person concerned or not at all, and people can continue to find out for themselves the EXPENSIVE way .

Ade,
It looks as Mark has it all under control now, and switching to a proper externally gated turbo with a decent size turbine housing will IMO resolve all your back-pressure issues anyway, without resorting to the expense of a tubular manifold. However, if you would prefer to do a belt and braces job, this won't hurt anything other than your wallet . 200mph, here you come .

vikingboy

wankˇer /ˈwćŋkər/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[wang-ker] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun Chiefly British and Australian Slang: Vulgar.
1. a contemptible person; jerk.
2. a male masturbator.
3. a person who winds others up for personal pleasure
[Origin: 1945–50]
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, Š Random House, Inc. 2006.

I'd say by definition Phil's a wanker....have a good one Phil

msport

I did read this LONG thread after a time away.. gee..

Only thing i think is weird is that if it was turbo BP causing this det. that holed/melted the piston, its weird that the other(bad picture) seems unharmed! Usually all pistons get abused when temperature rises and engine starts pinging, there are clear evidence on the holed piston of pinging(see the pinholes around outer piston crown) so i am starting to think individual cylinder problems, like wrong air distribution, broken injector, loose injectorcable, clogged injector etc.. As i wrote before, id like to know how the backpressure in the manifold was measured..

Anonymous

msport Mark would have been monitering it at all times so if it was an injector issue it would have shown up on the AFR meter surely?

msport

Not for sure, it depends if he uses one wideband on every individual cylinder or one on all(total measure of all 4cylinders) if he uses 1 on all it shows only an average of all 4 cylinders, then if you have a clog for ex and one injector flows 10% less fuel on top it is not sure it will show on AFR, but it will for sure det if mapped near limits as usually done. I would never put a unflowed plenum on if i couldnt use individual widebands to monitor distribution as it is today. I have made plenums and I know how HARD it is to get it correct on all loads.. Today I modify std 4x4 plenums instead as i know the flaws/advantages in them.

Anonymous

...so in that case he would have heard the det.

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

I believe the "pinging" that you are referring to is actually nothing more than the aftermath of the material that escaped from the hole you can see.... .

I do not believe that this is anything to do with det. Mark monitors this too well.

CossieRich

iTrader: (1)

Mike,

Dont be weak. Make sure you post on every technical thing you see fit and dont resort to PM'ing the individual. This has been a great thread, so dont throw toys out of pram

You got pm

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Excuse me, but I'm not the one throwing my toys out, I always leave that to the MAD crew .

CossieRich

iTrader: (1)

you wont get us to bite

msport

Yes, very much possible, I really cant say because I have too little to go on. But since we are guessing.. But i still think its odd that the other piston looks that good(hard to see though)if it were a Bp issue.

Individual EGTs would have said a lot..

Its broken anyhow, end of story.

Anonymous

...Mike dont forget martin...he is throwing his toys out at me

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

You have that effect on EVERYONE!

Martin-Hadland

iTrader: (2)

I have! an 044 pump on proper fuel lines only makes 3.5litres per min at 6 bar (less on std lines) so how can that out flow 4x 1000cc injectors? Did Boschman supply the data

Mark Shead

Martin

My test showed 4.5l@6bar did you check your fuel filter .

Mark

Martin-Hadland

iTrader: (2)

Of course!! There is no disadvantage in over engineering a fuel system (all mine are this way) but we all know you cant go the other way!!

rapidcossie

what is the set up on yours martin?

Martin-Hadland

iTrader: (2)

holley 110gph pump takes fuel from the tank to swirl pot then an A1000 aeromotive sends fuel to the engine via -8 supply line through an aeromotive filter

Martin-Hadland

iTrader: (2)

what's the bat for

Cossie Helen

iTrader: (1)

Clicky happy eh ?

Martin-Hadland

iTrader: (2)

Are you and Helen in the same building? But on diiferent pc's?