Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

You are presuming there that it is correct, and again, i stand by my point that it certainly doenst look like it is.

Anonymous

Msport, do you have a connection to PeterG that means you know more about those manifolds than just looking at the picture?

msport

Heh. you need a couple minutes and you will then understand what i tried to say to you. 2 pipes come to 1 its one unit that the wg lowers the pressure in, even if i think its made as i mentioned first that the pipes come together just before the wg outlet.

msport

No connection, but i have seen couple of them.

Anonymous

Ah cool, you were sounding like you probably had, we only have the picture to go on, so you have the advantage there im sure, wasnt intending to imply any vested interest or anything like that.

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

If you are talking about teh 2-1 being teh cylinder runners to teh collector then i disagree as the collector will be around 2+ x boost and in this case the runner will evacuate to atmosphere in a screamer application as it will naturally flow to the area of least resistance, dropping the TIP on cylinders 3 and 4 far more than 1 and 2. (Well, not quite TIP, but you follow my thinking i am sure)

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

I see your point, but in back to back tests with the PeterG one, the third pictured one works better and has a superior quality of construction. However, I understand that the PeterG one we were sent for testing was one of the first three he made, and the later ones are MUCH better quality and consistancy (I haven't seen or tested one of these later ones yet) . There is no bias on my part either, as I can import both and the PeterG one has actually a better profit margin, it's just the other is better made and doesn't have the manufacturing inconsistancies (one of the header tubes is noticably distorted and smaller in size where it mates to the collector on the PeterG one I have).

rsdene

iTrader: (1)

interesting read, thanks to everyone who posted

Turbosystems

iTrader: (5)

does anyone run less than 20 psi ? when driving their car !

Anonymous

PMSL

Its a fair point Tony!

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

It would make 12 position boost pots pretty much redundant if you couldn't control the boost down to at least 1 bar .

Anonymous

They are redundant on a road car anyway

sas

Gents, just for your referance the adaptor pipe I made up on my ERST for a 38mm exrenal waistegate is angled at 75 deg from the direction of flow and it allows control of boost pressure from 1 to 2.2 bar.
The pics are in Performace ford this month.
S.

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

I think they are brilliant for either 2wd or when let your women drive the car .

Anonymous

women?

how many you got?

YBP

Here you see the pipes merge just before the wg take off and shows that stu´s "TIP" difference won´t be problem.
When 3 and 4 wents off to the wg, there will be less pressure there and the pressure in 1 and 2 move over to the 3 and 4 area to even out the pressure difference and not create an uneven backpressure/VE between cyl. Not a optimal set of pipes at all, but will do the work.


I think the second set of pipes is by far the best one. Nice bends and really narrow collector pipeangles and small collector volume.

msport

MikeR, I had 0.5bar boost(regulated) and 7500rpm 422bhp, good enough for ladies? No problem with boostregulation, could make it +-0bar if needed, or no boost...(airinjectors controlling closing/opening) but no ladies drive the Focus T16 4x4, bit noisy to go shopping with(kevlar/carbon panels)

Mark Shead

chip-3door

Whats your email address and I will send you the picts of my new manifold as I cant post them .

Mark

Anonymous

MAD one:

Rick

defo no boost control issues on the MAD one!

Anonymous

Or flow issues, really does look to solve all the problems at once, lol

GARETH T

does look good

Martin-Hadland

iTrader: (2)

did Pat's guys make that?

Mark Shead

Yes and the 3 I got coming

Mark

Martin-Hadland

iTrader: (2)

quite easy to spot the quality!

Mark Shead

As you already know

Mark

allsteel

Great read this one and some hellish metal on show.

cossiemanden

This one is mine from peterg also.




T3 flange and 38mm and gt-35 turbo

Rick

be nice to get all these on a dyno on the same engine.... Only way to truly test them.

msport

Its hard to do it that way because every turbo needs a specific manifold for the best function. i.e the GT35 might work good on a specific manifold, but wont as near that good with another.

MikeR

Mark what is the name of the exhaust company stateside ??

Mike

capri-rs

Msport

are there any options for internal wastegate??

using a turbo from sts irx600.

do you have any experience with this turbo

Mark Shead

Mike it should be full race if thats the one you are thinking about, I am also now having the manifolds made by PD for the Evo's

Mark

MikeR

Arh are you still using them for the time being ???

As you know were i am going

Mike

Rick

It will define certain chacterstics of the manifold. It is just a vessel that transports energy from the cylinder head. Response is near impossible to measure on a dyno, not least because it is so subjective. Raw power figures are much simpler.

Kev.H

ok not a cossie one by still PD bling now if I could just remove the snapped turbo stud from the turbo

Peter G

Hi guys,

I dont like this kinds of discussions. Especialy not when I having a good cold Guinness in my hand and enjoing Ministry of sound live radio
Its even more terrible that I have to write in english....
At first, I dont think you Chip-3door is bias in this case. So I post some pictures of this beatifully polished manifold.





I dont want to argue about wish is the best. Just point on some things.
In my eyes, this is a 90 degree wastegate outlet. And nothing else. If we talk about to let the flow go in a smooth direction. This is how it should be....



....if we were 10 years back in time... This days the turbochargers is so much better with small turbines that spools fast as hell and create a backpressure. So this is not neccesary. If you not running an old T04E...

Once again...I dont want to start an argue. I know that MikeR is selling this manifolds. As you guys also can see at Martin´s manifold, the wastegate is in 90 degree. If this is wrong, Im 100% sure that the guys at Primary Designs not should build like that
For the last 6 month I have spend a lot of time and money to test a lot of designs on manifolds and especialy wastegate outlets.
As you all know, there is always a higher pressure in the manifold than the boost is. The wastegate is working like a valve that release the pressure. If the wastegate is correctly sized, not to big or not to small, it doesnt matter in wich direction the outlet in the collector is. Trust me, I have tried this on the dyno. The manifold in picture 1 wich is horrible, has output 732bhp at the flywheel on an YB with an Turbonetics T66 Q-trim and TIAL 46mm wastegate, with a "beatiful boostcurve" and no peaks.

I also want to say that me and msport not is friends. I know who he is, and he knows me.

This is one of my most interesting projects.



Team Jakan Racing Sport compact dragracing. This is a low 8sec car. The engine is an S14 from the old M3 E30. 2.3-16V 4cyl. I have built their manifolds for a couple of years. Last season......







938,3bhp at the flywheel at 1,95bar boost. With the wastegates full open, it goes as low as 0,4 bar. They also measures the different in EGT in primaries. It was 6 degrees celsius between the highest and the lowest.
At the end of the season the boost was 2,05, about 1050bhp... With no NOS...

I dont want to brag. But its so sorry to see that people is throwing shit and assume that the products is shit without even trying it...

When im developing new products, I always test it on the dyno. Or my customers do. For example this manifold to SAAB 9000 Aero.



This is dynopapers from a customer in the UK. He was running a regular 400bhp stage from Maptun with a GT30R, T25 flanged with internal wastegate. They put the car in the dyno and run it with the original cast manifold and 3" downpipe. Run 2 is with original manifold.





Run 3 is with the manifold in the picture. After this the ECU is tuned and all curves is much better in the low and mid.
Once again, I dont want to brag. Just show that all my products is realy tested before I start to selling it. In this writing moment, one of my manifolds for the Cosworth in picture 2 is in the UK at a customer that want to try it on the dyno. I send it with no payment. If hes not happy, I take it back. If he is happy, he will be an UK reseller for my manifolds...
The testcar is an Escort Cosworth with a GT30R. Of course that we will publish the dynoresults.

Mike Rainbird, the manifold you got from me is one of my prototype Vers1. I dont work for small money. So all I can say is "You got what you pay for". No hard feelings. I will send you an email...

I hope that this NOT will cause me an my company PeterG Production any damage. We have been in this situation in Sweden for some years ago. Guys, you cant belive how many "manifoldmakers" there is.
Im not satisfied with that the outside is beatiful...The inside should even be better...

Thanks Peter G

Anonymous

Hi PeterG, and welcome to the site.


You are correct that i am NOT against you at all, my comments on your manifold were based purely on my own (very limited!) understanding of how the design effects boost control, and as is hopefully obvious from my post, it was very much put up in the vein of "this is the best i know, but i want to know better"

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Hi Peter,
Thanks for taking the time to explain . Obviously I can only go on what was sent me , and I bare no malace or favouritism . In fact, as I stated, I would have preferred your one to be better, as the one of yours that was sent was far cheaper than the one that we usually use, and as you will note, I did clarify that this one was one of the first three you did and that the subsequent ones were improved (however, I have not seen one of these in the flesh) .

If you would like to send one of your later ones for testing, I would happily report the findings .

I look forward to receiving your email .