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400bhp is not that much to ask, whats stopping it.

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Old 21-11-2006 | 02:03 PM
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Is there a chance the Turbo is fooked?
Old 21-11-2006 | 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Porkie
Is there a chance the Turbo is fooked?
no none. i brought a new one just incase and its the same.
here is the old one
Old 21-11-2006 | 02:13 PM
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Old 21-11-2006 | 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by leecavturbo
RESULTS:
just been out with pressure readings taken from the turbo outlet and at the plenum . i only had a psi gauge for the pre IC reading which i saw a max of 21psi and the apexi which is reading at the plenum showed a max of 1.25bar ????????????//
it was too much hassle to connect 2 map sensors to the ecu and data log them

When you say "plenum" do you mean the tophat?

If so, bear in mind thats so far up the inlet, that there could easily still be a restriction downstream of it, ie the manifold.
Old 21-11-2006 | 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by chip-3door
Originally Posted by leecavturbo
RESULTS:
just been out with pressure readings taken from the turbo outlet and at the plenum . i only had a psi gauge for the pre IC reading which i saw a max of 21psi and the apexi which is reading at the plenum showed a max of 1.25bar ????????????//
it was too much hassle to connect 2 map sensors to the ecu and data log them

When you say "plenum" do you mean the tophat?

If so, bear in mind thats so far up the inlet, that there could easily still be a restriction downstream of it, ie the manifold.
so your saying you can not flow more than 315bhp on a std xe manifold ?
we know of atleast 1 392bhp motor !!!!
Old 21-11-2006 | 02:28 PM
  #86  
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Originally Posted by leecavturbo
RESULTS:
just been out with pressure readings taken from the turbo outlet and at the plenum . i only had a psi gauge for the pre IC reading which i saw a max of 21psi and the apexi which is reading at the plenum showed a max of 1.25bar ????????????//
it was too much hassle to connect 2 map sensors to the ecu and data log them

Is it much work to switch over the two gauges?
Not uncommon for gauges to be a couple of psi off.


Exhaust backpressure reading next then? Before and after turbo.

Lars.
Old 21-11-2006 | 02:36 PM
  #87  
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Originally Posted by YBP
Originally Posted by leecavturbo
RESULTS:
just been out with pressure readings taken from the turbo outlet and at the plenum . i only had a psi gauge for the pre IC reading which i saw a max of 21psi and the apexi which is reading at the plenum showed a max of 1.25bar ????????????//
it was too much hassle to connect 2 map sensors to the ecu and data log them

Is it much work to switch over the two gauges?
Not uncommon for gauges to be a couple of psi off.


Exhaust backpressure reading next then? Before and after turbo.
surely if there is a exhaust restriction i could not have anymore post turbo exhaust gas flow,velocity? which i can as i can have more boost if i set it to????
and pre turbo is unlikely as the hotside is huge?
but all possible. not ruling anything owt


Lars.
Old 21-11-2006 | 03:03 PM
  #88  
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You could flow eleventy seven thousand BHP on a standard manifold if you had enough pressure one side of it, im not saying it "wont flow it" im saying it may cause a large drop in pressure.

Do you not understand the difference mate



Originally Posted by leecavturbo
Originally Posted by chip-3door
Originally Posted by leecavturbo
RESULTS:
just been out with pressure readings taken from the turbo outlet and at the plenum . i only had a psi gauge for the pre IC reading which i saw a max of 21psi and the apexi which is reading at the plenum showed a max of 1.25bar ????????????//
it was too much hassle to connect 2 map sensors to the ecu and data log them

When you say "plenum" do you mean the tophat?

If so, bear in mind thats so far up the inlet, that there could easily still be a restriction downstream of it, ie the manifold.
so your saying you can not flow more than 315bhp on a std xe manifold ?
we know of atleast 1 392bhp motor !!!!
Old 21-11-2006 | 03:12 PM
  #89  
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Originally Posted by chip-3door
You could flow eleventy seven thousand BHP on a standard manifold if you had enough pressure one side of it, im not saying it "wont flow it" im saying it may cause a large drop in pressure.

Do you not understand the difference mate



Originally Posted by leecavturbo
Originally Posted by chip-3door
Originally Posted by leecavturbo
RESULTS:
just been out with pressure readings taken from the turbo outlet and at the plenum . i only had a psi gauge for the pre IC reading which i saw a max of 21psi and the apexi which is reading at the plenum showed a max of 1.25bar ????????????//
it was too much hassle to connect 2 map sensors to the ecu and data log them

When you say "plenum" do you mean the tophat?

If so, bear in mind thats so far up the inlet, that there could easily still be a restriction downstream of it, ie the manifold.
so your saying you can not flow more than 315bhp on a std xe manifold ?
we know of atleast 1 392bhp motor !!!!
yep exactly, more boost will push through that restriction and i have the capacity to have 2.5bar i think ! its not that i want a certain amount of power for 1.2bar, its just what is stopping power rising after 1.2bar?

its irrelevant that there might not be 1.2bar at the inlet ports as you say cus that pressure wise was increased too and still did not give anymore power.
Old 21-11-2006 | 03:20 PM
  #90  
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AAARRRRGGGGHHHHHH

You arent listening to what im saying.


What im saying is that maybe the inlet is very restrictive past that sort of flow, and therefore the turbo is having to work mega hard trying to get any more airflow through it.



Im NOT saying thats definately it, im just saying the test you have done doesnt prove it isnt, all you have tested is upto the manifold.
Old 21-11-2006 | 03:27 PM
  #91  
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Originally Posted by chip-3door
AAARRRRGGGGHHHHHH

You arent listening to what im saying.


What im saying is that maybe the inlet is very restrictive past that sort of flow, and therefore the turbo is having to work mega hard trying to get any more airflow through it.



Im NOT saying thats definately it, im just saying the test you have done doesnt prove it isnt, all you have tested is upto the manifold.
but increased boost at the plenum would of increased boost at the valve (maybe not by the same amount but never the less more), however the engine did not use that extra air flow/volume . ????
tell me if i'm wrong?
Old 21-11-2006 | 03:27 PM
  #92  
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Originally Posted by leecavturbo
Originally Posted by chip-3door
You could flow eleventy seven thousand BHP on a standard manifold if you had enough pressure one side of it, im not saying it "wont flow it" im saying it may cause a large drop in pressure.

Do you not understand the difference mate



Originally Posted by leecavturbo
Originally Posted by chip-3door
Originally Posted by leecavturbo
RESULTS:
just been out with pressure readings taken from the turbo outlet and at the plenum . i only had a psi gauge for the pre IC reading which i saw a max of 21psi and the apexi which is reading at the plenum showed a max of 1.25bar ????????????//
it was too much hassle to connect 2 map sensors to the ecu and data log them

When you say "plenum" do you mean the tophat?

If so, bear in mind thats so far up the inlet, that there could easily still be a restriction downstream of it, ie the manifold.
so your saying you can not flow more than 315bhp on a std xe manifold ?
we know of atleast 1 392bhp motor !!!!
yep exactly, more boost will push through that restriction and i have the capacity to have 2.5bar i think ! its not that i want a certain amount of power for 1.2bar, its just what is stopping power rising after 1.2bar?

its irrelevant that there might not be 1.2bar at the inlet ports as you say cus that pressure wise was increased too and still did not give anymore power.
What you need to remember is that boost (pressure) is only a measure of the restriction. It is not a measure of flow. The the two are seperate and do not have a linear connection.
Old 21-11-2006 | 03:28 PM
  #93  
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Originally Posted by Garage19
Originally Posted by leecavturbo
Originally Posted by chip-3door
You could flow eleventy seven thousand BHP on a standard manifold if you had enough pressure one side of it, im not saying it "wont flow it" im saying it may cause a large drop in pressure.

Do you not understand the difference mate



Originally Posted by leecavturbo
Originally Posted by chip-3door
Originally Posted by leecavturbo
RESULTS:
just been out with pressure readings taken from the turbo outlet and at the plenum . i only had a psi gauge for the pre IC reading which i saw a max of 21psi and the apexi which is reading at the plenum showed a max of 1.25bar ????????????//
it was too much hassle to connect 2 map sensors to the ecu and data log them

When you say "plenum" do you mean the tophat?

If so, bear in mind thats so far up the inlet, that there could easily still be a restriction downstream of it, ie the manifold.
so your saying you can not flow more than 315bhp on a std xe manifold ?
we know of atleast 1 392bhp motor !!!!
yep exactly, more boost will push through that restriction and i have the capacity to have 2.5bar i think ! its not that i want a certain amount of power for 1.2bar, its just what is stopping power rising after 1.2bar?

its irrelevant that there might not be 1.2bar at the inlet ports as you say cus that pressure wise was increased too and still did not give anymore power.
What you need to remember is that boost (pressure) is only a measure of the restriction. It is not a measure of flow. The the two are seperate and do not have a linear connection.
yep fully aware of that
Old 21-11-2006 | 03:31 PM
  #94  
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Originally Posted by leecavturbo
Originally Posted by chip-3door
AAARRRRGGGGHHHHHH

You arent listening to what im saying.


What im saying is that maybe the inlet is very restrictive past that sort of flow, and therefore the turbo is having to work mega hard trying to get any more airflow through it.



Im NOT saying thats definately it, im just saying the test you have done doesnt prove it isnt, all you have tested is upto the manifold.
but increased boost at the plenum would of increased boost at the valve (maybe not by the same amount but never the less more), however the engine did not use that extra air flow/volume . ????
tell me if i'm wrong?

The problem is if you have a sufficeint restriction in your vauxhall air pump* you may up the pressure by 50% but only get a 5% increase in flow, and hence horsepower.

*Air pump - a stu@MSD licensed explanatory term!
Old 21-11-2006 | 03:42 PM
  #95  
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5psi more at the tophat might have increased pressure at the valve by .1psi for all you know, thats my point, you dont know (neither do i!)


Originally Posted by leecavturbo
Originally Posted by chip-3door
AAARRRRGGGGHHHHHH

You arent listening to what im saying.


What im saying is that maybe the inlet is very restrictive past that sort of flow, and therefore the turbo is having to work mega hard trying to get any more airflow through it.



Im NOT saying thats definately it, im just saying the test you have done doesnt prove it isnt, all you have tested is upto the manifold.
but increased boost at the plenum would of increased boost at the valve (maybe not by the same amount but never the less more), however the engine did not use that extra air flow/volume . ????
tell me if i'm wrong?
Old 21-11-2006 | 03:44 PM
  #96  
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I am not going to get into this debate on a tec side.


But I would do is have your mapping checked out eg John nobles
Old 21-11-2006 | 03:45 PM
  #97  
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I have known bad mapping from them
Old 21-11-2006 | 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnnyB
I have known bad mapping from them
another possibility, Stu@MSD how acurate is your ass dyno +/- 10bhp ?
Old 21-11-2006 | 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by leecavturbo
Originally Posted by JohnnyB
I have known bad mapping from them
another possibility, Stu@MSD how acurate is your ass dyno +/- 10bhp ?
Its only calibrated for cossies, lol

your transmission losses and weight are different.
Old 21-11-2006 | 04:01 PM
  #100  
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Originally Posted by leecavturbo
Originally Posted by JohnnyB
I have known bad mapping from them
another possibility, Stu@MSD how acurate is your ass dyno +/- 10bhp ?
i dont think stus is calibrated to TUV or dingy specs
Old 21-11-2006 | 04:06 PM
  #101  
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Originally Posted by GARETH T
Originally Posted by leecavturbo
Originally Posted by JohnnyB
I have known bad mapping from them
another possibility, Stu@MSD how acurate is your ass dyno +/- 10bhp ?
i dont think stus is calibrated to TUV or dingy specs
well its booked in now
Old 21-11-2006 | 04:08 PM
  #102  
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good move mate,,,you will get what you need now much respect for stu and kenny
Old 21-11-2006 | 05:11 PM
  #103  
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Default Re: 400bhp is not that much to ask, whats stopping it.

Originally Posted by leecavturbo

Would you care to post the whole chart with the # on the side?

Another thing that is funny about this is the torque curve.
With full boost by 4k i would expect max tq just past full boost on 252deg cams.
You don´t reach peak torque until 5300rpm?

Why so bad VE on 4k with those nice and mild cams?
Old 21-11-2006 | 05:32 PM
  #104  
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Originally Posted by leecavturbo
Originally Posted by GARETH T
Originally Posted by leecavturbo
Originally Posted by JohnnyB
I have known bad mapping from them
another possibility, Stu@MSD how acurate is your ass dyno +/- 10bhp ?
i dont think stus is calibrated to TUV or dingy specs
well its booked in now
Nice one Lee,they'll figure it out for you
I thought it might need another rebuild by the time you figured it out
Old 21-11-2006 | 06:47 PM
  #105  
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When's it at Stu's? Be very interested to see what's his verdict is
Old 22-11-2006 | 06:31 PM
  #106  
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Originally Posted by Rick
When's it at Stu's? Be very interested to see what's his verdict is
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