My dead engine - PICS INSIDE
07-11-2006, 06:02 PM
#1
My dead engine - PICS INSIDE
Hi everyone,
My engine is now in pieces, and the following pics show what I've found:
So I'm having a bite of this while I decide what I'm going to do with the car:
And here's the bastid machine in what may well be it's final re( or should that be a U?)sting place:
This follows on from this post which explains how this happened:
https://passionford.com/forum/viewto...asc&highlight=
BOLLOCKS AGAIN
Si
My engine is now in pieces, and the following pics show what I've found:
So I'm having a bite of this while I decide what I'm going to do with the car:
And here's the bastid machine in what may well be it's final re( or should that be a U?)sting place:
This follows on from this post which explains how this happened:
https://passionford.com/forum/viewto...asc&highlight=
BOLLOCKS AGAIN
Si
07-11-2006, 06:12 PM
#4
Originally Posted by Pennywise
Whats that?!? Bore wash 
Shit news mate
Shit news mate
It has been running WAY TOO rich off boost for a few months, and me being a fool kept driving it, as when my car works (which it does very little) I LOVE using it.
I don't know what to do next... I have a huge frown on trying to work out what to for the best.
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07-11-2006, 06:15 PM
#8
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a heart attck on a plate 
but looks like an injector went wrong eather wiring or a pice of shit went through the injector and made things a little toasty but you say in other post that the afr was good so fuck knows
but looks like an injector went wrong eather wiring or a pice of shit went through the injector and made things a little toasty but you say in other post that the afr was good so fuck knows
07-11-2006, 06:25 PM
#9
Originally Posted by mrviper
a heart attck on a plate
but looks like an injector went wrong eather wiring or a pice of shit went through the injector and made things a little toasty but you say in other post that the afr was good so fuck knows
but looks like an injector went wrong eather wiring or a pice of shit went through the injector and made things a little toasty but you say in other post that the afr was good so fuck knows
Could be an injector, although they were brand new in June...
The loom is the original one - it could be breaking down, although when Karl mapped it IIRC he said it was ok (he gets lots of cars with tired looms so knows what to look for)
I've got a Dingy loom to go in if needed...
Si
07-11-2006, 06:26 PM
#10
Certainly looks lean.
Have been in the car though (that night in fact!) and it certainly wasnt lean on the wideband monitor he has installed cause i was specifically checking when he took me out in it cause i find such things interesting due to being a techy nerd, lol!
blocked injector maybe?
rings on that cylinder not sealing (poss due to bore wash) allowing oil in which lowers the octane rating and encourages DET
At a bit of a loss to be perfectly honest Si!
Have been in the car though (that night in fact!) and it certainly wasnt lean on the wideband monitor he has installed cause i was specifically checking when he took me out in it cause i find such things interesting due to being a techy nerd, lol!
blocked injector maybe?
rings on that cylinder not sealing (poss due to bore wash) allowing oil in which lowers the octane rating and encourages DET
At a bit of a loss to be perfectly honest Si!
07-11-2006, 06:32 PM
#11
Originally Posted by chip-3door
Certainly looks lean.
Have been in the car though (that night in fact!) and it certainly wasnt lean on the wideband monitor he has installed cause i was specifically checking when he took me out in it cause i find such things interesting due to being a techy nerd, lol!
blocked injector maybe?
rings on that cylinder not sealing (poss due to bore wash) allowing oil in which lowers the octane rating and encourages DET
At a bit of a loss to be perfectly honest Si!
Have been in the car though (that night in fact!) and it certainly wasnt lean on the wideband monitor he has installed cause i was specifically checking when he took me out in it cause i find such things interesting due to being a techy nerd, lol!
blocked injector maybe?
rings on that cylinder not sealing (poss due to bore wash) allowing oil in which lowers the octane rating and encourages DET
At a bit of a loss to be perfectly honest Si!
The fooked bore was full of oil - could it be so clean because it has always run lean, or could the oil maybe have somehow cleaned it? The other bores with no oil in seem to be fairly evenly sooty / coked up.
AFRs on boost always seemed dead on what Karl had mapped it too - a safe 11.1:1 most of the time, and the car has been THRASHED a lot with no probs up until that last high speed run...
hmmm
07-11-2006, 06:42 PM
#13
Classic high speed detonation, its melted like a mars bar in a furnace.
Could be anything really, you will likely never 100% know for certain, but having teh injectors labelled and flow tested is a start as No:3 is significantly cleaner than the others suggesting a lack of fuel in comparison, although clenliness in itself means nothing as an engine running 11.5:1 max on the power will actually stay just as clean as that pot at all times if it has closed loop.
Could be anything really, you will likely never 100% know for certain, but having teh injectors labelled and flow tested is a start as No:3 is significantly cleaner than the others suggesting a lack of fuel in comparison, although clenliness in itself means nothing as an engine running 11.5:1 max on the power will actually stay just as clean as that pot at all times if it has closed loop.
07-11-2006, 08:57 PM
#19
Phill ( my housemate, and good Cossie spanner man ) will be busy Sticky! The diff on Doug's post also had a bit of Phil's handiwork in it - he removed it yesterday, and will find himself divided between the two cars sorting them all out!
Phil / IMA / Bosch dude has made me a very kind offer which I'm taking up to get my injectors tested - we'll see if that was the problem...
Thanks for your support guys and Stu for your expert eye!
Si
Phil / IMA / Bosch dude has made me a very kind offer which I'm taking up to get my injectors tested - we'll see if that was the problem...
Thanks for your support guys and Stu for your expert eye!
Si
07-11-2006, 10:16 PM
#22
Originally Posted by SiB
AFRs on boost always seemed dead on what Karl had mapped it too - a safe 11.1:1 most of the time, and the car has been THRASHED a lot with no probs up until that last high speed run...
hmmm
hmmm
while i may not get this explanantion correct, it gos a litle somethng like this
your injectors can supply x amount of fuel
your pump can pump x amount of fuel
this is fine when you are doing normal acceleration runs as when you change gear and the revs drop, there is a littl ebit of time for the fuel rail to "fill up" again so that the the amount being taken out by the injectors is replensihed by the pump
when you go for total high speed runs, the pump eventually can't get enough fuel to the rail and so you lean out right where you want to be not leaning out, ie at the top of the rev range
and then this happens
sorry to try and tell those who have already figure out whats happened, but i'd like to think i had a bit of knowledge about stuff
looks like youwill be needing a new engine then mate
07-11-2006, 10:34 PM
#24
I ate that! Tasted nice too...
Didn't get rid of the bad taste the wrecked engine has left me....
I like the sound of your explanation Dojj - makes good sense, and sounds feasible. Wish I had set up the date logging part of the wideband - would have been interesting to see exactly what the AFRs were up to, right up to and just beyond the melting.
I'm sure I was watching 11.4:1 at the precise moment I noticed the problem....
Si
Didn't get rid of the bad taste the wrecked engine has left me....
I like the sound of your explanation Dojj - makes good sense, and sounds feasible. Wish I had set up the date logging part of the wideband - would have been interesting to see exactly what the AFRs were up to, right up to and just beyond the melting.
I'm sure I was watching 11.4:1 at the precise moment I noticed the problem....
Si
07-11-2006, 10:40 PM
#25
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Simon, Bad shame, had 4 engines go teh same way myself.
2 off them due to me learning to map and failing miserably
At Ł2000 a time to rebuild them properly it does hurt
FYI,
Dont forget lambda AFR is an average of ALL cylinders.
If one leans slightly for what ever reason, it is unlikely you will notice it in
time to save it !.
(Assuming AFR was the problem)
As most cossie engines are tuned to the limit during mapping it doesnt
take much to kill them depending on how much "comfort zone" a tuner
gives you but even then, when a minor fault or change occurs it will still
go bang in a few seconds.
Lock the garage for a few days, go out, get pissed, then rebuild it
2 off them due to me learning to map and failing miserably
At Ł2000 a time to rebuild them properly it does hurt
FYI,
Dont forget lambda AFR is an average of ALL cylinders.
If one leans slightly for what ever reason, it is unlikely you will notice it in
time to save it !.
(Assuming AFR was the problem)
As most cossie engines are tuned to the limit during mapping it doesnt
take much to kill them depending on how much "comfort zone" a tuner
gives you but even then, when a minor fault or change occurs it will still
go bang in a few seconds.
Lock the garage for a few days, go out, get pissed, then rebuild it
07-11-2006, 10:47 PM
#26
Originally Posted by SECS
Lock the garage for a few days, go out, get pissed, then rebuild it
Point taken ref Average of 4 cylinders - will buy 3 more AFR monitors for the next evolution of the engine! So add another Ł1500 to the bill! Ouch.
Si
07-11-2006, 11:01 PM
#27
Si, you dont want 4 lambda sensors, no need for it at all IMHO.
What you want is 1 lamda sensors, and 4 nice cheap temp senders.
That way you can see the average AFR, and the temp difference will tell you if one is doing more than another,.
What you want is 1 lamda sensors, and 4 nice cheap temp senders.
That way you can see the average AFR, and the temp difference will tell you if one is doing more than another,.
08-11-2006, 07:51 AM
#29
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Originally Posted by StickerPaul
Oh its Sept all over again.......who mentioned Germany to Si
Sorry to see that mate.....looks like Phil is gonna be busy again
Sorry to see that mate.....looks like Phil is gonna be busy again
Gutted for you Si
08-11-2006, 07:58 AM
#30
What compression are you running?
What speed have you had the fuelling tested to?
Has this been det checked or just AFR checked at these speeds? I ask, because although the AFR could be perfect, an engine can still det, so you HAVE To use det cans as well as AFR checking....
I personally think it is as a result of your high speed escapades with Doug and the possibility that your manifold gives higher flow to one cylinder.
If it is perfectly equal, then my other GUESS would be that it was cylinder pressures due to too high compression?
Sad for you, especially as you had just got transmission sorted.
What speed have you had the fuelling tested to?
Has this been det checked or just AFR checked at these speeds? I ask, because although the AFR could be perfect, an engine can still det, so you HAVE To use det cans as well as AFR checking....
I personally think it is as a result of your high speed escapades with Doug and the possibility that your manifold gives higher flow to one cylinder
.If it is perfectly equal, then my other GUESS would be that it was cylinder pressures due to too high compression?
Sad for you, especially as you had just got transmission sorted
.
08-11-2006, 09:00 AM
#33
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Originally Posted by Mike Rainbird
What compression are you running?
What speed have you had the fuelling tested to?
Has this been det checked or just AFR checked at these speeds? I ask, because although the AFR could be perfect, an engine can still det, so you HAVE To use det cans as well as AFR checking....
I personally think it is as a result of your high speed escapades with Doug and the possibility that your manifold gives higher flow to one cylinder.
If it is perfectly equal, then my other GUESS would be that it was cylinder pressures due to too high compression?
Sad for you, especially as you had just got transmission sorted.
What speed have you had the fuelling tested to?
Has this been det checked or just AFR checked at these speeds? I ask, because although the AFR could be perfect, an engine can still det, so you HAVE To use det cans as well as AFR checking....
I personally think it is as a result of your high speed escapades with Doug and the possibility that your manifold gives higher flow to one cylinder
.If it is perfectly equal, then my other GUESS would be that it was cylinder pressures due to too high compression?
Sad for you, especially as you had just got transmission sorted
.Si wont be online until this afternoon / evening i dont think....
C.R is 7.2:1, car was live mapped by Karl Norris....
Wouldnt think the inlet plenum is a problem as Doug runs one too and im sure he has run at these speeds regularly
Not sure what the cause is
Sure it'll be sorted quickly though 
08-11-2006, 09:22 AM
#35
I had perfect afr of 11.5:1 but there was still a crack of det at high boost in 4th gear. Took some igniton out until i put some octane boost in with the petrol. Now all is good. As i have said earlier and Mike has siad, AFR can be spot on and DET can still be apparent, although i would have thought Karl would deffo DET check all his engines when live mapping
08-11-2006, 09:31 AM
#37
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As i said earlier, the car was live mapped by Karl, so i would presume that Karl has det checked the car as part of the live map!
08-11-2006, 09:34 AM
#39
Originally Posted by Mike Rainbird
But was it det checked, or just mapped on AFR?
As above i dont see how it can be the plenum as the cylinder that would detonate if it was a plenum design issue would be the one that got the most air (as it would both be leaner and have higher PCP's as a result of the extra air) and i really cant see number 3 being the one to get the most air on that plenum, and also as above Doug Stirling runs one with FAR more power and has done so for many miles without a problem at all.
08-11-2006, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by chip-3door
Originally Posted by Mike Rainbird
But was it det checked, or just mapped on AFR?
Originally Posted by chip-3door
As above i dont see how it can be the plenum as the cylinder that would detonate if it was a plenum design issue would be the one that got the most air (as it would both be leaner and have higher PCP's as a result of the extra air) and i really cant see number 3 being the one to get the most air on that plenum, and also as above Doug Stirling runs one with FAR more power and has done so for many miles without a problem at all.
As Stu has said earlier, and as Gareth points out, theres lots of reasons that might have caused this
Thats whats annoying