Why hasn't FORD produced a genuine performance car..........
27-10-2006, 04:39 PM
#1
PassionFord Post Troll
Thread Starter
Why hasn't FORD produced a genuine performance car..........
Everyone seems to be leaving the RS scene...but can you blame them. Why hasn't ford produced a genuine performance saloon since the Cosworths.......????
Bmw does it (M3 and M5)..... Even Skoda does it ............. what's happened to FORD.
Why has ford left it to the Germans and the Japanese to walk away with this market........
Bmw does it (M3 and M5)..... Even Skoda does it ............. what's happened to FORD.
Why has ford left it to the Germans and the Japanese to walk away with this market........
27-10-2006, 04:41 PM
#4
PassionFord Post Troll
Thread Starter
Aussies have the Falcon.......and the Americans have the Mustang (Just needs abit of suspension re-work and it's a damned good car).
So what happened to Henry UK and Europe
So what happened to Henry UK and Europe
27-10-2006, 04:44 PM
#6
PassionFord Post Troll
Thread Starter
MR Sam : Exactly...... the ST's are a nippy hatchback....but they're not a real muscle car or genuine performance car like BMW's M Series, Audi's S Series, or the Japs Evo's and Scoobies.
Trending Topics
27-10-2006, 04:47 PM
#8
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Thread Starter
Somebody need to get off there arse in Ford, and come up with something better than a hot hatch.
The engines are already there......4.6 liter V8's from the USA....Probably the best V8 on the market.....Short Stroke, Quad Cam, and 380bhp in Cobra form.
The transmission is there....T56, Don't tell me they can't sort out a decent shell, and abit of suspension.....LOL
The engines are already there......4.6 liter V8's from the USA....Probably the best V8 on the market.....Short Stroke, Quad Cam, and 380bhp in Cobra form.
The transmission is there....T56, Don't tell me they can't sort out a decent shell, and abit of suspension.....LOL
27-10-2006, 04:54 PM
#11
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Not sure if its 4x4 but alot of cars are getting too powerfull for fwd these days. Would be nice to get the arse end out in a new ford again. The new st fetures in the new james bond film apprently for the first 30 secs or so
27-10-2006, 04:57 PM
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It is pathetic TBH, people like us FORD enthuiasts (Very few 
) all would like a car like that but only Ford themselves can make it and they don't give a fuck about UK/Europe.
Maybe if they had made proper cars after the cosworth, maybe some people would be buying them after a they're a few years old like they are with the BMWs / Audis etc.
In regards to them being 'in the red' I heard it was the US Ford, but also don't know how true this is.
We shouldn't suffer because of the yanks
) all would like a car like that but only Ford themselves can make it and they don't give a fuck about UK/Europe.Maybe if they had made proper cars after the cosworth, maybe some people would be buying them after a they're a few years old like they are with the BMWs / Audis etc.
In regards to them being 'in the red' I heard it was the US Ford, but also don't know how true this is.
We shouldn't suffer because of the yanks
27-10-2006, 05:41 PM
#15
PassionFord Post Whore!!
Originally Posted by Paulcosworth
There's a new mondeo st on the way with a 6 pot turbo 3.2 i think
27-10-2006, 05:47 PM
#17
PassionFord Post Whore!!
Originally Posted by Rick
expensive for minimal gain?
WRC has killed off mental road cars.
WRC has killed off mental road cars.
Ford hasnt got the money to realy compete nowdays as the Japs have moved everything along to far, So without a very big investment and some badge engineering with parts that show Ford wont achive what we all want.
Mark
27-10-2006, 06:03 PM
#18
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I think the Japs need motorsport a lot more than ford do. Where would subaru be if it wasn;t for the rally bred impreza? Ford's cars are all curretly pretty much class leaders and sell in massive numbers - fiesta, focus - mondeo (new one out shortly)
So ford can easily do without specialist cars. They can still comptet at top level rallying with the WRC cars. If group A was around, they would have no choice but to build a turbo charged 4wd focus for the road.
Every single RS apart from the fiesta was designed to compete in motorsport. That just isn't needed now.
So ford can easily do without specialist cars. They can still comptet at top level rallying with the WRC cars. If group A was around, they would have no choice but to build a turbo charged 4wd focus for the road.
Every single RS apart from the fiesta was designed to compete in motorsport. That just isn't needed now.
27-10-2006, 06:07 PM
#19
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Originally Posted by focusv8
Originally Posted by Paulcosworth
There's a new mondeo st on the way with a 6 pot turbo 3.2 i think
looks like a fucking vectra
27-10-2006, 06:10 PM
#20
Fleet Manager
there's talk of the cougar making a come back....dunno how much truth is in it
but to be honest if u drive anything over a 2.0 liter. tony blaire and gordon brown will gang rape you!!!
but to be honest if u drive anything over a 2.0 liter. tony blaire and gordon brown will gang rape you!!!
27-10-2006, 06:39 PM
#21
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Originally Posted by Rick
I think the Japs need motorsport a lot more than ford do. Where would subaru be if it wasn;t for the rally bred impreza? Ford's cars are all curretly pretty much class leaders and sell in massive numbers - fiesta, focus - mondeo (new one out shortly)
So ford can easily do without specialist cars. They can still comptet at top level rallying with the WRC cars. If group A was around, they would have no choice but to build a turbo charged 4wd focus for the road.
Every single RS apart from the fiesta was designed to compete in motorsport. That just isn't needed now.
So ford can easily do without specialist cars. They can still comptet at top level rallying with the WRC cars. If group A was around, they would have no choice but to build a turbo charged 4wd focus for the road.
Every single RS apart from the fiesta was designed to compete in motorsport. That just isn't needed now.
Focus...........Golf - Dynamically similar, Golf is current car of the year and I'd rather have the Golf.
Mondeo - Yeah you got that one, but its tried to move up a class and compete against BMW and its losing. More Bee Em's were sold last year than Mondy's
I wish Ford would make a genuine Cosworth again they are fantastic cars. The ST doesn't cut it. Subaru and Mitsubishi prove that stupidly fast cars with wings the size of a small village sell in well enough numbers to warrant making them. Bring back the whaletail and the Cosworth name. Give us a car to be proud of. At the moment, IMHO, every nippy car Ford makes gets modified by its owner to make it the car they want. I think a lot of Escort Cosworths get modified, but there are still a few standard ones as people see them as genuine performance cars and good enough as they are.
Sorry for the long post, thought I'd wade in with my view.
Cheers
Matt
27-10-2006, 06:51 PM
#22
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collierm
The point is, the Focus is miles better than anything subura or mitsi offer in the same class. As is the fiesta. VW have never produced a homoligation special of any note, let alone several - they don't need to - and neither do ford anymore.
Granted, it certainly helps image - but is a massive financial investment, that probably doesn't pay. Ford have a significant rally presence without the need to make a road car - an accountants wet dream.
[/quote]
The point is, the Focus is miles better than anything subura or mitsi offer in the same class. As is the fiesta. VW have never produced a homoligation special of any note, let alone several - they don't need to - and neither do ford anymore.
Granted, it certainly helps image - but is a massive financial investment, that probably doesn't pay. Ford have a significant rally presence without the need to make a road car - an accountants wet dream.
[/quote]
27-10-2006, 06:55 PM
#24
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Originally Posted by Rick
collierm
The point is, the Focus is miles better than anything subura or mitsi offer in the same class. As is the fiesta. VW have never produced a homoligation special of any note, let alone several - they don't need to - and neither do ford anymore.
Granted, it certainly helps image - but is a massive financial investment, that probably doesn't pay. Ford have a significant rally presence without the need to make a road car - an accountants wet dream.
The point is, the Focus is miles better than anything subura or mitsi offer in the same class. As is the fiesta. VW have never produced a homoligation special of any note, let alone several - they don't need to - and neither do ford anymore.
Granted, it certainly helps image - but is a massive financial investment, that probably doesn't pay. Ford have a significant rally presence without the need to make a road car - an accountants wet dream.
That said, there is vw motorsport which may interest buyers, posters of the vw gt-tdi on a rally stage stickered up going sideways through the gravel up on dealership walls to get the customers itching to part with money? what does for have? an oranage st focus parked on a clifftop. Harldy the same presence to capture the mind of a potential customer.
27-10-2006, 07:06 PM
#25
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The last great fords were the old MK1/2 scorts! I get to watch 30 or so giving it sidways every year over here in the JERSEY RALLY, Most of the scoobies and evos ect are boring 4x4s (and get nailed by the scorts)!! Bring back the RWD's pls Mr Ford!!
I get to watch 30 or so giving it sidways every year over here in the JERSEY RALLY, Most of the scoobies and evos ect are boring 4x4s (and get nailed by the scorts)!! Bring back the RWD's pls Mr Ford!!
27-10-2006, 07:08 PM
#26
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Originally Posted by James
I think ford don't really car about people who want fast cars. They're interested in "family motoring" S-max, Galaxy, C-max etc.
27-10-2006, 07:12 PM
#27
we can all moan about fords luke warm cars now but it wont get any better unfortunately.ford getting shot of the cosworth name nailed the lid shut. 
audi are now using cossie technology and look how them fuckers shift!
the focus road car is so unlike the wrc car its unbelievable.at least when people buy a scooby they get the fuck off big arches and spoiler focus st is just a warmed up 1800 zetec/volvo
audi are now using cossie technology and look how them fuckers shift!
the focus road car is so unlike the wrc car its unbelievable.at least when people buy a scooby they get the fuck off big arches and spoiler focus st is just a warmed up 1800 zetec/volvo
27-10-2006, 07:19 PM
#28
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Originally Posted by Rick
collierm
The point is, the Focus is miles better than anything subura or mitsi offer in the same class. As is the fiesta. VW have never produced a homoligation special of any note, let alone several - they don't need to - and neither do ford anymore.
Granted, it certainly helps image - but is a massive financial investment, that probably doesn't pay. Ford have a significant rally presence without the need to make a road car - an accountants wet dream.
The point is, the Focus is miles better than anything subura or mitsi offer in the same class. As is the fiesta. VW have never produced a homoligation special of any note, let alone several - they don't need to - and neither do ford anymore.
Granted, it certainly helps image - but is a massive financial investment, that probably doesn't pay. Ford have a significant rally presence without the need to make a road car - an accountants wet dream.
The reason is purely financial, how many of Fords target audience have Ł26-30000 to spend on a new 4x4 Focus Cosworth. Not enough to justify the production costs. I also think that all this true performance car is a load of bollocks. The Focus RS & ST(turbo) get ridiculed by a lot on here, when in reality comparing Std FRS & FST against any standard cosworth and they will murder the Cosworth. round a track.
People keep comparing stage 3 cossies to the FRS, ST. Ford produced you a Scooby beating/rivaling car for Ł19995 in the Focus RS and it is half a second slower lapping the top gear track than an e46 M3 both cars with 60 and 130bhp more than the RS.
27-10-2006, 07:32 PM
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All down to money i think! They cant justfy the outlay for a true performance car that wont make anymoney.
i know somepeople here will say loads of people will buy it, maybe and maybe not. But because Fords financial situation atm is not the best they are not likly to take big risks imo.
Who knows they might do it to raise brand profile, but i wouldnt hold your breath tbh.
i know somepeople here will say loads of people will buy it, maybe and maybe not. But because Fords financial situation atm is not the best they are not likly to take big risks imo.
Who knows they might do it to raise brand profile, but i wouldnt hold your breath tbh.
27-10-2006, 07:44 PM
#30
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They think people wont buy them....
but then, the only thing they have launched recently is the ST focus thats
even nearly 'proper' performance related... and people were climing over themselves to buy them!!!
dad was told 10 weeks wait for his,, ended up being nearer 16 weeks where they couldnt build enough for demand :s
ford should of kept the RS Cosworth ball rolling IMO
real shame they didnt
but then, the only thing they have launched recently is the ST focus thats
even nearly 'proper' performance related... and people were climing over themselves to buy them!!!
dad was told 10 weeks wait for his,, ended up being nearer 16 weeks where they couldnt build enough for demand :s
ford should of kept the RS Cosworth ball rolling IMO
real shame they didnt
27-10-2006, 08:24 PM
#31
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Originally Posted by tonyk
Originally Posted by Rick
collierm
The point is, the Focus is miles better than anything subura or mitsi offer in the same class. As is the fiesta. VW have never produced a homoligation special of any note, let alone several - they don't need to - and neither do ford anymore.
Granted, it certainly helps image - but is a massive financial investment, that probably doesn't pay. Ford have a significant rally presence without the need to make a road car - an accountants wet dream.
The point is, the Focus is miles better than anything subura or mitsi offer in the same class. As is the fiesta. VW have never produced a homoligation special of any note, let alone several - they don't need to - and neither do ford anymore.
Granted, it certainly helps image - but is a massive financial investment, that probably doesn't pay. Ford have a significant rally presence without the need to make a road car - an accountants wet dream.
People keep comparing stage 3 cossies to the FRS, ST. Ford produced you a Scooby beating/rivaling car for Ł19995 in the Focus RS and it is half a second slower lapping the top gear track than an e46 M3 both cars with 60 and 130bhp more than the RS.[/quote]
That last bit is spot on...
Ford made a Ł3 billion, thats BILLION loss in the last quarter IIRC from reading the paper the other day. They just haven't got the cash to develop anything new, hence all the current platform sharing, same in all the big companies VW/Audi/Seat/Skoda and GM/Merc/Chrysler etc etc isn't BMW one of the only stand alone companies left?
Shit situation I agree, but thats the reality, we may not have a Ford at all for much longer.
27-10-2006, 08:39 PM
#32
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Originally Posted by tonyk
The reason is purely financial, how many of Fords target audience have Ł26-30000 to spend on a new 4x4 Focus Cosworth. Not enough to justify the production costs. I also think that all this true performance car is a load of bollocks. The Focus RS & ST(turbo) get ridiculed by a lot on here, when in reality comparing Std FRS & FST against any standard cosworth and they will murder the Cosworth. round a track.
The FRS and ST might well be quicker than a standard cosworth, but they werent built with motorsport in mind, a lot of RS owners are in it for the heritage as well, what has the FRS or ST done? the cosworth was a race engine detuned for the road, and in RS500 form was soley designed and built to wipe the floor in touring cars, thats the sort of thing that entice's customers in, fuck, its worked for subaru over the past decade, loads of bell ends run out and buy them thinking they are getting a detuned rally car
IMO if Ford went for it they could clean up in that sector, but it would have to be a balls out attempt, not some limp wristed simmered down road version, they had the right idea with the FRS, some of the bits on that (quaife, brembo etc) were spot on, just the final package didnt deliver like it could of done.
27-10-2006, 10:06 PM
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Re: Why hasn't FORD produced a genuine performance car......
Originally Posted by Jim Green
Everyone seems to be leaving the RS scene...but can you blame them. Why hasn't ford produced a genuine performance saloon since the Cosworths.......????
Bmw does it (M3 and M5)..... Even Skoda does it ............. what's happened to FORD.
Why has ford left it to the Germans and the Japanese to walk away with this market........
Bmw does it (M3 and M5)..... Even Skoda does it ............. what's happened to FORD.
Why has ford left it to the Germans and the Japanese to walk away with this market........
now cosworth or out of F1..
andy
27-10-2006, 11:56 PM
#36
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Re: Why hasn't FORD produced a genuine performance car......
Originally Posted by morto
Originally Posted by Jim Green
Everyone seems to be leaving the RS scene...but can you blame them. Why hasn't ford produced a genuine performance saloon since the Cosworths.......????
Bmw does it (M3 and M5)..... Even Skoda does it ............. what's happened to FORD.
Why has ford left it to the Germans and the Japanese to walk away with this market........
Bmw does it (M3 and M5)..... Even Skoda does it ............. what's happened to FORD.
Why has ford left it to the Germans and the Japanese to walk away with this market........
now cosworth or out of F1..
andy
Cheers
Matt
28-10-2006, 08:35 PM
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It's a shame some body from the rs owners club commitee could'nt speak to one of the top nobs at ford to see if there will ever be another rs. Then we'll know
For the time being i think the rs is dead and the st has taken over
For the time being i think the rs is dead and the st has taken over
28-10-2006, 08:40 PM
#38
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Re: Why hasn't FORD produced a genuine performance car......
Originally Posted by Jim Green
Why hasn't ford produced a genuine performance saloon since the Cosworths.......????
and whatever else they own.
28-10-2006, 09:02 PM
#39
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I know somebody that was under a new ST recently and they reckoned the transimisson tunnel was set for 4x4 maybe thats true, but i really agree that Ford have nothing in the current line up to encourage you to buy from them,
Mike
Mike