Mark V8

iTrader: (2)

Take your pick
I look forward to your answer

I am ALWAYS willing to learn but have not found a way to make full use of the Mazak machining centre we have because ISO sucks big time unless you are some kind of super nerd or have a decent PC driven toolpath. Delcam is one I would like to try but my boss is toooo daaamn tight.

Mark

Mark V8

iTrader: (2)

BTTT



Mark

PaulCossie

"You use a bridgeport interact 1 mk 2"

and that can do things like pitch corrected and tapered thread that a 90k mazak can't do ?

Tell me, what canned cycles are you using for pitch corrected and tapered thread on an interact 1 mk2 ? what heidenhain control is it ? TNC 150.. 155.... ?

As for calling the control on a mazak "fisher pirce" im sorry, thats down to poor education....

Mark V8

iTrader: (2)

I use the Mazak for monkey work because it has a control designed to be worked by monkeys

The point is that even on a clapped out 10 year old bridgeport Interact 1 Mk2 running a TNC 370 control you can do ANYTHING you want without using ISO or canned cycles.

As for poor education not one of the Mazak Fisher price operators has come up with an answer for the question I asked
You spend your life filling in little boxes that the allmighty Mazak asks you to fill in and think you can program

Heidenhain is kind of a user friendly ISO that you can use with or without canned cycles, the canned cycles are handy if you need to do something REALLY simple but if you need to be creative then you can use the parrametric option.

For example how would you machine a square block on the Mazak/Mazatrol say 50mm at the top and tapered by 2 degrees over 50mm in 0.1mm steps in the Z axis?

By my rekoning you would need to write 500 individual "Line out" canned cycles after calculating the step out in X and Y using Mazatrol. (PLEASE PROVE ME WRONG ON THIS AS IT WILL MAKE MY LIFE MUCH EASIER !)

With heidenhain it could be done in around 30 lines
I allways use the variable Q4 for the Z axis to prevent confusion so would start with This. I would use say Q1 as the X/Y value

L ZO FMAX M92
L X0 Y0 FMAX M3
L X+35 Y0 R0 FMAX
L Z+.1 FMAX

Q4=0
LBL1
Q4=Q4 + 0.1
Q5=Q4x0.0349 (TAN 2 degrees)
Q1=25+Q5

L Z -Q4 FMAX
L XQ1 Y0.5 RL F100
RND 0.25
L Y-Q1
L X-Q1
L Y+Q1
L X+Q1
L Y-0.5
L X 35 Y0 R0 FMAX

If Q4 is less than 50 goto LBL1

L Z0 FMAX M92
L X0 Y0 FMAX M2

That is a piss easy program just to prove the point, you dont need canned cycles just a reasonble IQ and some imagination.


Mark

nigel b

the 3 intergrexes we have are good machines,the newest one we have is 2 metres machining area and twin spindle,very impressive
the 2 mills(2 meter table)didnt even come with thermal growth compensation and mazak themselves say that it is poor design,
if you check the machine it grows within 30 minutes (by 0.07)
the mazak mill at my old place was a good little machine(but crap design toolchanger)
take the big cover off the head and see how big it is!!

dunno about the newest mazaks but ours running mazatrol fusion struggles keeping up with our scanning,even when using high speed machining codes

philram
it can depend on many things
how long is your x axis?

mazatrol is easy enough to use for basic type work
all the more complex work we use eia(scanning etc..)

anyone using edgecam?

cincinatti are robust machines as long as you dont get the bottom of the range(and dont get their own controls)

nigel b

use mazatrol programme blocks
hop into eia
G0 X15. Y0.
#1=0
#2=0
WHILE[#2GE=51.5448]DO1
Y#2
Z#1
X-65.
Z10.
#1=#1-.1
#2=#2-2.8636
END1

BACK TO MAZATROL

Mark V8

iTrader: (2)

One of these for me

use mazatrol programme blocks
hop into eia
G0 X15. Y0.
#1=0
#2=0
WHILE[#2GE=51.5448]DO1
Y#2
Z#1
X-65.
Z10.
#1=#1-.1
#2=#2-2.8636
END1

BACK TO MAZATROL

This is getting interesting
Can you break that down line by line for me so I can get a grip on what's going on? I'm seriously interested in finding out more about this stuff

Here's one I wrote for machining a 26 tpi thread on part of an injection mould tool, it's pitch corrected for material shrinkage and tapered so that it can be unscrewed easily.

0 BEGIN PGM 87726TPI INCH
1 BLK FORM 0.1 Z X-0.435 Y-0.435 Z-2.177
2 BLK FORM 0.2 X+0.435 Y+0.435 Z+0
3 TOOL DEF 1 R+0.671
4 TOOL CALL 1 Z S500
5 L Z+0 FMAX M92
6 L X+0 Y+0 R0 FMAX M3
7 FN 0: Q3 = +0
8 FN 4: Q0 = +0.0025 DIV +2880
9 FN 4: Q2 = +0.024 DIV +5
10 FN 0: Q10 = +1.1035
11 FN 4: Q15 = +0.3077 DIV +2880
12 L X+1.2 Y+0 R0 FMAX
13 L Z+0.01 FMAX
14 L Z-1.9623 F200
15 LBL 1
16 FN 0: Q3 = +0
17 FN 2: Q10 = +Q10 - +Q2
18 FN 0: Q4 = +1.9623
19 L X+Q10 Y+0 F30
20 LBL 2
21 FN 1: Q3 = +Q3 + +1
22 FN 6: Q30 = SIN +Q3
23 FN 7: Q31 = COS +Q3
24 FN 3: Q6 = +Q3 * +Q0
25 FN 1: Q1 = +Q10 + +Q6
26 FN 3: Q11 = +Q1 * +Q31
27 FN 3: Q12 = +Q1 * +Q30
28 FN 1: Q4 = +Q4 + +Q15
29 L X+Q11 Y-Q12 Z-Q4 R0 F15 M90
30 FN 12: IF +Q3 LT +2880 GOTO LBL 2
31 L X+1.2 F50
32 L Z-1.8623 F200
33 FN 11: IF +Q10 GT +1.0795 GOTO LBL 1
34 L Z+0 FMAX M92
35 L X+0 Y+4 R0 FMAX M2
36 END PGM 87726TPI INCH

Cheers

Mark

nigel b

mark

i think i got a couple of bits wrong as i was tired and i was typing it on my gaming keyboard
G0 X15. Y0. - starting position
#1=0 - set the #1 variable to 0(or whatever you want)
#2=0 - set the #2 variable to 0(or whatever you want)
WHILE[#2GE-51.5448]DO1 basically this is a WHILE DO loop,you can also use WHILE+ENDWHILE)
it is saying while the #2 variable is greater or equal to (GE) -51.5448
DO 1 which is whatever you put underneath the while line
Y#2 - moves in Y axis the distance of variable #2 ,this case 0
Z#1 - moves in Z- plane the distance of variable #1,this case 0
X-65. - normal X move
Z10. - feed to clearance,Z+10mm
#1=#1-.1 - this minuses .1mm everytime the loop works on #1
#2=#2-2.8636 - this minuses 2.8636mm everytime the loop works on #2
END1 - this ends the loop

when you first run the loop the #1 + #2 values are 0
once the loop has run only once #1 becomes -.1mm
#2 becomes -2.8636mm

if you had to do alot of programming for depths etc.. it easy to use the variables to cut down on programme size
also if you got halfway to a finished depth on this and needed to restart you can edit the start of the loop to start at the depth you are and you would basically carry on from where you are at the time

you cannot use these macros on scanning as it would not keep up due to processing too much info

there is alot more to macro programming than that,that was just an easy example

you can have a loop inside a loop,say 2 hole positions then rotate 90 degrees at a time,and the loop finishes when it has done 360 degrees

with the GE command you can also use
LE
LT
GT

hope it helps

on a heindenhain some machines dont like FMAX so they use F9999

Mark V8

iTrader: (2)

Thanks, that is food for thought.
I will print out your explanation and have a go when I get some spare time at work.

Apologies for being antagonistic last night, tooo much Stella in my system

Does the graphical test run work with this?
Can you view the final results of say #1 etc after a graphics run to check your calculations end up at the right number ?

Cheers
Mark

PaulCossie

RS2300 4x4 Like I said, if you put a bit of effort into learning a control rather than spending your time just slaging it off because you don't understand it, you might broaden your Horizons.

Don't get me wrong i love heidenhain but there are other just as good controls out there.

I find using mastercam v10 with a good post into Fanuc Oi or similar control is the quikest way to program for the work i do these days

Mark V8

iTrader: (2)

Taken

Mazak just make it much more like hard work but I will make the effort and have a go, kind of a necessity really as the Bridgeport is showing its age and the boss is too close to retiring to spend any cash on new machines. The only one we have that is not worn out is the Mazak

Mark

PaulCossie

I'd had a few beers last night as well Its always time consuming learning a control thats different to the one your used too. Shame in a way you didn't go for a newer machine with a more similar control...

Still, im sure you'll get on with the mazak ok with a bit of time

GARETH T

cnc nerds

nigel b

nowadays there isnt too much difference between any controls

basic work and cap is ok for alot of companys but they all work different which can be a pain to get used to

most aerospace companies are using fanuc base,i.e eia format as it is so flexible for more complex work

mazak use either mastercam or edgecam for all their complex machining instead of mazatrol
if you ever get a chance to go on a mazatrol course take it as they do excellent food and the nightlife is good

Mark
it also depends on whether the machine is using macro A or macro B
#1 should be in the local user variables.100+ or the system variables from 500-550

other things that make life easy if you use grid plates is the G10 line for datums

Mark V8

iTrader: (2)

Have you any experience with Mastercam?
I have a dodgy copy somewhere but never managed to find out how to import a model into the toolpath software.

Mark

nthorpey

Gareth is you want some prices etc and more info on any controls just email me as i have been a machinist / programmer (ISO/Fanuc/Heidenhain/HAAS/Indramat/Siemens/Denford/) and also have worked as a sales engineer for a large international machine tool co.

I can probably send you to the direct contact for a few companies if you like and give you some advise what makes / drives and controls to avoid for your application.

Also remember once you have bought the machine there are many others costs involved such as tooling / tool holders / materials / clamping / coolant / maintenaince to add on.

I personally have thought hard about setting up my own engineering business in the UK but have found it much cheaper to produce 3D CAD models and sub contract them out to other companies in the UK, china and eastern europe. Also use delcam / mastercam nc graphics systems to in the past to produce toolpath programs.

HTH

Drjones

this is what we use to use in my old tool making company

http://www.sabriscan.fi/mita/files/p...poJet1612E.pdf

What a machine!!!!

GARETH T

nthorpey

thanks mate,,, no worrys about the extra costs,, as my company already have a toolroom including a good few cnc machines

Drjones

that looks one hell of a machine

GARETH T

got some info through the post from xyz machine tools today
prices seem great,,, will take it into work and see what happens