Christian and Beccy

iTrader: (14)

Lee, come on. Be realistic. How ever many thousands of pounds are there is correcting all the brickwork issue's we are faced with? I can't imagine how much it would cost to have the entire rear corner of the bungalow supported with Acro's and bricked up in matching red-brick and that's just for starters.

Then there's making good the internal decor too. I reckon it would be the equivalent of a 'write-off' for people that can't do this type of work themselves.

Lee Reynolds

We dont sell materials. We USE materials to construct.

So your telling me, if you get a for example, a ball joint for a customers car, and you pay 20 quid for it, then you fit it which takes an hour at 50 quid an hour. Thats 70 quid. But you charge them 30 quid for the ball joint so the price is 80???????????? If so that is WRONG

If i get bricks at 250 quid a thousand, i charge the customer 250 quid a thousand....plus labour......

Lee Reynolds

im not saying it wont cost you quite a bit.... but its worth it///

Christian, would you fit a cheaper part to the car that jeapordises it to save money? Even if it made the car look/perform shit?

Christian and Beccy

iTrader: (14)

No, but that's hardly a fair comparison. Customers get the choice, genuine parts for genuine part money for cheaper non-genuine parts. We favour the better quality parts, but if a customer wants to save money, they can.

In the circumstances of our bungalow, I would anticipate that it would cost well into 5 figures to correct these brickwork issue's. It is a monstrous amount of work and would, I imagine necessitate us moving out whilst it is done.

There are an awful lot of rendered properties around, so it can't be all bad if it's done properly. I'm not trying to cut corners there.

Lee Reynolds

i never mentioned gen or non gen.

What i said was. You buy a part for 20 quid, fit it, charge 50 quid labour, and add 10 quid on to the cost of the part....imo is wrong.


Mate, regarding changing those bricks, you are getting far too worried about it. it would NOT go into 5 figures if i was doing it, so if you get quotes of that tell em to bollox.

Its not as drastic as you might thing mate...trust me. Some builders to rip you off(sadly) might tell you that, but it wouldnt....

Just looking, i could guesstimate at around 3.5-4k........

Christian and Beccy

iTrader: (14)

Look at it another way. We are dealers for lots of brand names. They all have their different ways of trading. Some state that their parts MUST be sold for retail price, regardless of what we pay. Therefore, regardless of the labour we are charging, we make on the parts too. Or else risk losing the dealership. That's a fact.

I'm going to make a point of asking the tradesmen that I know, because I cannot believe that everyone is selling materials for the price that they pay. To be honest, more fool them if they are. I'm not saying that I want to be over-charged, but it's a natural assumption that people don't sell products for what they pay.

There are theoretical comparisons that you could draw between the 'normal' retail industry and the construction industry. After all, it is just as likely that a manufacturer of a product that is used in any industry could insist that their products be sold for a recommended retail price.

So, another scenario then. I presume you quote on labour by the hour for a job, generally? So, how does it work if you take 2 brickies and one works considerably faster than the other. Is it right that the faster guy should earn less money because he got the job done quicker? I know I have digressed a little, but I am trying to test how far the 'lets be fair to the customer' thing actually goes.

Back onto my bungalow. So, you are saying Ł3.5-4k as an approximation? Then I have to remove all the kitchen units that are on the other side of that wall and have it replastered and paint it before refitting the units. The floor would also be affected as would the ceiling/coving I imagine. Then there's those bays. I can't imagine that those windows are a 5-minute job to remove and refit. One of them has a radiator on the inside of it, so the heating system would have to be broken into too. Then there's the window on the side.

Perhaps I am going over the top, but I imagine that if I have a few builders round and tell them what needs doing, most, if not all, will take a sharp intake of breath before saying 'I would render it'. No?

Lee Reynolds

the external brickwork affects nothing inside Christian as it is cavity wall construction. No kitchen units have to be removed or anything else. All that may be affected inside is the window reveals as the windows would be removed to do the brickwork(ie the one at the back)..NOT the bay windows tho, they would be supported and bricked under or the patio doors....

Have to agree to disagree on the materials situation. All i know is by me getting trade price im able to offer good quotes whcih make potential customer think twice about using joe bloggs from down the pub as he isnt really that much cheaper by the time they have paid him and for the materials...

And no i dont charge labour by the hour....unless it is really neccasary on certain jobs.. There are 'rates' for certain aspects of the work to be done. Ie...XX per thousand bricks. XX per metre blockwork. XX per metre blockpaving. XX per cubic metre concreting....etc

Lee Reynolds

u decided >?

silverfox999

I thought this thread had died a long time ago…..

In defence of Lee, I work on the other side of the fence and actually spec and decide work areas and sequences.

Make up on building materials is nothing like the automotive industry, fact. No point discussing it. It is nothing like what happens in ALS, Autoparts etc etc. I guess an element occurs, but nothing like what you were discussing.

I think both Lee and I have both agreed that your building does not need rendering - from a longevity point.

However, it appears that you think it may need to look neat and tidy and rendering will solve this for you. We have both offered our advice on alternative methods - wide ranging i admit. The brick tinting is a good alternative and much less disruptive than rendering, or prepping and painting, partial rendering etc etc.

If you are set on rendering this is fine, go with our blessing (make sure you put some lime in the mix first off, and second watch out for the junction between the blocks and the bricks on the rear).

If you want to save money....brick tint or localised rebuild and repoint any defective areas.

BTW, most builders don’t fleece on building costs. they do this by having lots of cups of tea on an hourly rate - this has been going on for years and you cant change it!

(Don’t be concerned with rad and kitchen units as you will not even be bothering them, you are a cavity away and not causing any issue to them)

If you want to render, the cost will be Ł20-30 m2. Go measure your home and work out the cost.

If you want our collective advice, ź your bill and repair and make good. The choice as they say is yours…..

HTH

Silver

Christian and Beccy

iTrader: (14)

No,

Lee, can you please give me a constructive reason AGAINST rendering? You seem dead-set against it, which is fine, I just want to understand why.

I really like the look of red-brick, but just can't see a feasable way that we can get back to our brickwork being in good condition. I'm sure you would agree if you were here and seeing it first-hand.

I have the guy that did our plastering coming round soon to quote, it will be interesting to hear what he has to say on it.

Christian and Beccy

iTrader: (14)

P.S. Thanks Silver, that's some good constructive advice.

I am taking heed, it's just VERY daunting. As I walk round the Bungalow, I see lots of cosmetically scary things. Even if we sort the biggies, there are still quite a few little things too.

The bungalow was built in the early 1930's using some odd kind of mortar, which is really crumbly and some parts need fairly serious re-pointing.

Lee Reynolds

As said before it is a last resort. Once render is applied it is virtually non removable without LOTS of work. Also, it in some cases will lose appeal to future buyers. Rendered properties genrally hide a multitude of sins..ie who knows whats under there?????

Reinstating original brickwork and keeping to the original brickwork theme imo is the way to go..

As i say Christian, its all in my opinion...but i trust my opinion and i wouldnt have anyone change my mind over it

Christian and Beccy

iTrader: (14)

OK, I will have a builder round also, to quote on possible correction of the brickwork problems. I am trying to be open-minded!! I am just quite over-the-top when I think about how hard these sorts of jobs are!

Lee Reynolds

crumbly yes, but deep down a damn site better than what the shite we use now will be like in 70 yrs time

Just a 10-15mm grind a nd point would probs suffice...

I wish i lived closer to come and advize ya

Christian and Beccy

iTrader: (14)

So do I!!!

silverfox999

That is what the mortar is supposed to do.

The best analogy is disks and pads, you want the pads to go before the disks. No point wearing out disks before the pads....

The pointing is the sacrificial part of the construction. Suring the 30's they were moving away from lime mortars and moving full into modern day cements, however lots of the builders still knew what it was all about, hence your pointing is starting to fail.

Rendering is a blimmin good way of hiding up all your probs.

however, we can see that there are some other possible ways around your issues.

Check out brick tinting (maybe Google can ping up some results) for the bays, and some partial sparring for the block section at the rear, that alone will save gallons of cash.....30's buildings are normally built very well!

Silver

Basky

So your telling me, if you get a for example, a ball joint for a customers car, and you pay 20 quid for it, then you fit it which takes an hour at 50 quid an hour. Thats 70 quid. But you charge them 30 quid for the ball joint so the price is 80???????????? If so that is WRONG

If i get bricks at 250 quid a thousand, i charge the customer 250 quid a thousand....plus labour......[/quote]0


this is excatly wot i do,when pricing a job
the matierials plus labour.(just round the price of the materials of)
why dont you try askin the builder to give you a day rate and you supply the matierals.

silverfox999

Making profit on materials is something that doesn’t really happen in the building industry (hang on caveat that. I guess lots of builders do, its just not the norm)

On larger contracts that I run, I request all the invoices for specialists works to check the price. The contractor adds an agreed percentage of that invoice on top, this is profit overheads and attendance.

We would negotiate this figure at the beginning of a contract and it stays the same throughout.

There are so many ways to get fleeced on buildings by builders, that mickying with the supply costs is right at the bottom of the list.

This is totally different to the car industry where trade and retail prices are totally different. I think this is where a lot of mistrust comes in.

Sure the garage guys and traders have to foster a relationship, make the phone call, arrange for delivery storage etc....that’s where the mark up comes from I guess.

Silver

EIL132

I love DIY, without seeing the problem NO ONE can comment with any degree of accuracy. As Lee implied, it's simply guess work. If you see something that's scary, then it's a job for the professionals. Most of the ideas on here will be patch and paint, which is good for selling, shit for living, if that's your intention. A 1930's build house is way beyond even council standards, we would class it BTS, Beyond Tolerable Standards and would have had substantial work done already. Get an expert in that can see what has been done and give advice accordingly.

DazC

iTrader: (1)

Justa word on this.

Our labour rates do not cover the upkeep of our stores department.

We have customers who run large fleets who need us (and is one of the reasons why we have the contract in the first place) to keep parts in stock but don't want to pay an increase in labour rates. But for us to keep the amount of parts in stock that we need, we need another unit, then it needs racking out and parts bins, then the administrative costs of logging these parts in and out and onto jobcards as they are used, and logging surcharged units to go back to the dealers (goods returns notes) and returning parts that are not required. Then of course there is staff required to do all this.

The customers agree a discount on the parts on a contractual level. Usually along the lines of retail less 10% or cost plus 30% or similar.

We then need the parts invoice processing for payment which is done by a girl in the office.

So that little 30% that is added to parts goes towards the cost of a full time bloke in the stores, the administration costs of having to input the parts into the stores, onto job cards and the payment of the invoice, the racking and bins, the rent and rates of the unit the stores is in and all the equipment like phone, fax and PC.

It's a bit different from having someone turn up with a truck and dumping it in the customers garden.

I know this is probably a little more complex that Christian's operation but he is still having to pay rates on a section of the unit to hold parts in stock etc. Whilst the stock is in the unit, that part of the unit isn't making any money (he can't park a car there and work on it) so he will still have to put a percentage cost on parts to cover the costs of keeping them in stock in the first place.

Hope that helps.