Right it pretty much seems the day of the Cosworth is gone when it comes to straight line stuff just can't seem to compete with the Evo's,Scooby's,Skylines look at TOTB.

But what about the handling??? I'm pretty sure the Cosworth still has the tools to rule this area. Ok TOTB when Gareth lloyd took the Handling was a fair while ago but it looked to be on tracks.

If building the ultimate handling Cosworth what would the spec be????

 

its made already





dont have a spec list tho soz

 

Thats just the ultimate Escort Cossie full stop .

 

https://passionford.com/forum/viewto...highlight=beam

 

that has reiger shocks xtrac active diffs and box

 

ooh thats hard! id be torn between that and martins new one!
but gareth llyods was awsome too.

 

Here's a link to have a good read of http://www.southlincsrsoc.co.uk/page...eth-lloyd.html

Full Spec on there aswell but if you can't be arsed:

Engine and Transmission:

560bhp on the dyno, plus extra 3psi used for qualifiying
T4, 8 Grey injectors
Auxilary inlet for ALS
7-speed works gearbox (h pattern)
7.5" diff's front and rear
multi-plate clutch
Body and Suspension

Integral cage and seam welded
lightweight bonnet and tailgate
Multi-adjustable geometry
Coil-over LEDA double adjustable dampers
Performance:

0-60mph in less than 3seconds
Topspeed: Over 175mph / 282km/h
Brakes, wheels and Tyres:

18" Wheels
Dunlop GT spec slicks
AP racing disc's, bells and four piston calipers front and rear

This car was stunning to watch at GT Battle

 

I think youl find the main advantage IS the straight line stuff over the corners mate.

Cossies are blessed with awesome engines that are just as good as the rest, if not better.

They not blessed with awesome/complex/modern suspension/transmission setups others have.

It can easy be converted to be just as good if not better tho, same as anything, jus need the bucks.

 

you need proper suspension.
want to buy some?

 

What would you recommend for a Tarmac/Track set-up then Tim?

 

I am confident that if Scotty hadnt't shat his box, he'd have easily claimed the handling. 12th on a siting lap...

 

Could you get it any more wrong?

 

Mine handles "quite" well .

 

Maybe you could be a little moe specfic than that and help the bloke out by answering the question with details of your setup

 

I think you'd struggle to improve on Gareth Lloyds.. as it was using a setup technically superior to the wrc stuff..

 

Indeed it does

Are you still going for the frame connectors?

 

already said but cossies in a straight line are actually right up there, its on the twisties they wont get close without serious ŁŁŁ

 

My set up has been posted 5 million times if anyone cares to look . But here it is for the 5,000,001st time



INTERIOR:
Full leather Recaro interior:



Stack ST8130P* - Speedo / Rev counter / oil pressure / fuel pressure / water temperature (before radiator) / oil temperature / battery / fuel level / odometer / tripmeter / manual lap timer.
All idiot lights replaced with custom items.
Exhuast Gas Temperature gauge - Defi*
Water temperature gauge (after radiator) - Defi*

*Peak memory recall and alarm warning on all readouts, with record and play-back on APEXi and Defi items.
Boost pressure gauge - APEXi 2.5 bar*.

Electric sunroof.
12 position boost control - 1.0 to 2.2 bar.

Willans Harnesses.

Momo gear knob.
Pectel Monitor mounted in centre of dash.



WHEELS & TYRES:
Wheels: Compomotive MO cast alloy, 8" x 18", ET15mm offset.
Tyres:
Front: 245/35ZR18, currently Dunlop Super-sport Race
Front: 245/35ZR18, currently Dunlop Super-sport Race


BRAKES:
Front: AP Racing 378mm (15") CP3700-1010/11G8 grooved and ventilated discs (fully floating) with gold anodised aluminium bells. AP Racing CP6235 6-pot differential bores, liquid-cooled, WRC callipers, and stainless-steel braided hoses. Ferodo DS3000 (CP6235D46) pads.

Rear: AP Racing 315mm (12.4") CP3580-64/5G8 grooved and ventilated discs wth gold anodised aluminium bells. AP Racing "Ex-works" Grp A, Ford Motorsport CP3620 4-pot callipers with titanium pistons and stainless-steel braided hoses. Ferodo DS3000 (CP3215D50) pads.

System: Hydraulic, dual-circuit with vacuum servo assistance and Teves ABS. Reyland hydraulic handbrake actuation.




ENGINE:
Type: Ford-Cosworth YBP
Capacity: 2180cc
Bore / Stroke: 92mm/82mm
Compression ratio: 7.54:1
Max. power: 477bhp @ 7010rpm @ 27 PSI**
Torque @ max. power: 358lb.ft
Max. torque: 408lb.ft @ 4520rpm @ 27 PSI**
Power @ max. torque: 351bhp
Specific output: 218bhp per litre.
Power / weight ratio: 335bhp/tonne.
Cylinders: Four, in-line. Accralite 92mm pistons.
Cylinder head: Works spec medium ported head (carried out by Nick Waples), with short duration cams.

Block: Cast iron (200 Series), WRC tri-metallic head gasket and long-studded.
Bottom end: Farndon 82mm crank, WRC high pressure oil pump.
Valve gear: Four valves per cylinder (35mm inlet / 31mm exhaust),
3-angle valves / seats operated by belt-driven twin overhead camshafts and inverted hydraulic bucket tappets operated by Isky valve springs. Big wing (5˝ litre) baffled sump and Bailey crankcase breather kit with braided hosing.
Fuel and ignition: Webber-Marrelli fuel injection with P8 ECU, Pectel Super 8 control board, Pectel monitor, water injection, Ford Motorsport leads, distributorless ignition system and ALS board. WRC siamese (side by side) 8-injector inlet manifold. AGP 071 plugs, eight 803 (dark green injectors) and 3 bar MAP sensor. Specially programmed
Ahmed Bayjoo ISS (Intercooler Spray System) chip live mapped on engine dyno.
Cooling: Pro-alloy Motorsport 50mm radiator, Pro-alloy auxiliary radiator (see below - this cools water for cylinder head), SPEC-R header tank, swirl pot and water-cooled power steering reservoir.

Induction: K&N panel filter inside modified standard air box T04E turbo (57 trim) with Maram 247 shaft 360° bearing etc, -31 actuator, Pro-alloy 65mm "super-wide" RS500 air-to-air intercooler and water injection (2 x 0.6mm jet). Boost controlled by Ford Motorsport air injectors.
Installation: Front, longitudinal
Exhaust: Mongoose 3" system with oval tail pipe.



Water injection

SUSPENSION:
Front: Independent by LEDA gas filled adjustable dampers with Eibach 325lb springs. Macpherson struts, set to 3° negative camber, 2mm total toe in (fully adjustable rose jointed TCAs). Standard 29mm anti-roll bar with polyurethane bushes.
Rear: Independent, by semi-trailing arms, LEDA gas filled adjustable dampers with Eibach 171lb springs and standard 22mm anti-roll bar. Grp A 6° Zoo ream beam set to 2°45' negative camber and 3mm total toe-in. Polyurethane rear axle bushes.

Rear bumpsteer:
Bump
60mm - 0.030" toe in
50mm - 0.023" toe in
40mm - 0.015" toe in
30mm - 0.009" toe in
20mm - 0.005" toe in
10mm - 0.003" toe in
Droop
10mm - 0.001" toe out
20mm - 0.002" toe out
30mm - 0.003" toe out



TRANSMISSION:
Type: Front-engine, four-wheel-drive
Gearbox: MT75, five-speed with Swedish (Fixit) gear kit.

Alcon six-plate paddle clutch with Reyland hydraulic actuation.


Front diff:Quaife ATB in thickwall casing.



Rear diff: Quiafe ATB in standard casing.

Internal Ratios (FIXIT Gearkit): 1st 3.00:1; 2nd 1.99:1; 3rd 1.33:1; 4th 1:1; 5th 0.825:1; Reverse 2.75:1; Final drive 3.62:1 giving 24.84 mph/1000rpm in top gear with 225/40x18s. Maximimum speed in gears at 7500rpm (rev limited to 7800):
1st 52mph
2nd 78mph
3rd 116mph
4th 155mph
5th 187mph


STEERING:
Type: Power-assisted rack-&-pinion
Lock-to-lock: 2.4 turns


BODY / CHASSIS:
Type: Pressed-steel monocoque, based on conventional Sierra / Escort, in two-door style.
Chassis construction: In steel, as part of monocoque
Dimensions:
Length: 4211mm Width: 1727mm Height: 1425mm Wheelbase: 2551mm Front track: 1453mm Rear track: 1472mm
Actual Weight: 1425Kg* (on road)
On track weight: 1395kg* (tool kit, spare wheel and rear
MDF shelf removed).

*Measured with half tank of fuel, wet weight without driver (75kg).

**Power is on dyno with no ancilliaries, but dynoed with Mongoose exhaust for as close to true power as possible. Estimated to be approx 450-460bhp in car with power steering / alternator drain etc.
Torque should be around 430lb ft now, as in the car it has been mapped for a 2.2bar (32psi) mid-range spike (3500-5000rpm), tailing off to the original 1.8bar after 6000rpm.


At Bedford








At the Nurburgring


At Snetterton


At ND 2004

Thanks to the following people for helping make the car what it is:
Harvey Gibbs, for building an engine so reliable, that I have hardly seen anything of him for the last two years .
Ahmed Bayjoo for being the God of mapping .
Reyland for the hydraulic clutch, handbrake, rear brakes, paint and patience to put up with a fussy git .
Steve Scott for sourcing some of the hard to get bits at the right prices .
Zoo for the rear beam - does what it says on the tin .
Gary at APT for dropping everything as and when required for bits and pieces .
Bernie at CTS for building up the Swedish gearkit quick-smart last year.
Chris at Carnoisseuar for lending me his Quaife for 6 months while I sorted out my Fixit kit (I'll never forget that ).
Tomas at TG Racing .
Jen for putting up with a hobby that consumes such a big part of my life .
My Mum, Dad, the good Lord, my agent etc etc and not forgetting IMA Racing for all his advice (that I then duly ignored and did the correct way )

 

what a read

 

mike b saw your car at croft fookin awsome

 

WHAT!?!??!?!?!?!?!?

TOTAL AND UTTER CRAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Mike your Escort looks and is kewl as fook mate

 

wots happened to gareth lyods escort not seen it for abit?
one of my top 5 escorts

 

thats what i thought last time i looked, it was using a normal, but modified rear beam. no wrc setup or even group a!

 

Still on the wish list?

 

Obviously you fellas only care about the rear suspension

 

Mike,
Just finding the time to get it done .

 

Surely Scotty's ex-WRC car in tarmac spec has to be about the best handling Escort Cossie you could hope for?

Not only is the suspension completely top of the line, but it also has active diffs IIRC which can only help with the mechanical grip aspect?

 

RichardPON.. that'd be true if you assume that WRC stuff is the ultimate.. but what you may actually find is the WRC stuff may be compromised in some way due to 'politics', which is often the case in such race teams!

 

You clearly know NOTHING about Gareths car or WRC cars....

Rich, Scottys car does not have active diffs mate.

 

[quote="Mike Rainbird"]My set up has been posted 5 million times if anyone cares to look . But here it is for the 5,000,001st time



INTERIOR:
Full leather Recaro interior:



Stack ST8130P* - Speedo / Rev counter / oil pressure / fuel pressure / water temperature (before radiator) / oil temperature / battery / fuel level / odometer / tripmeter / manual lap timer.
All idiot lights replaced with custom items.
Exhuast Gas Temperature gauge - Defi*
Water temperature gauge (after radiator) - Defi*

*Peak memory recall and alarm warning on all readouts, with record and play-back on APEXi and Defi items.
Boost pressure gauge - APEXi 2.5 bar*.

Electric sunroof.
12 position boost control - 1.0 to 2.2 bar.

Willans Harnesses.

Momo gear knob.
Pectel Monitor mounted in centre of dash.



WHEELS & TYRES:
Wheels: Compomotive MO cast alloy, 8" x 18", ET15mm offset.
Tyres:
Front: 245/35ZR18, currently Dunlop Super-sport Race
Front: 245/35ZR18, currently Dunlop Super-sport Race


BRAKES:
Front: AP Racing 378mm (15") CP3700-1010/11G8 grooved and ventilated discs (fully floating) with gold anodised aluminium bells. AP Racing CP6235 6-pot differential bores, liquid-cooled, WRC callipers, and stainless-steel braided hoses. Ferodo DS3000 (CP6235D46) pads.

Rear: AP Racing 315mm (12.4") CP3580-64/5G8 grooved and ventilated discs wth gold anodised aluminium bells. AP Racing "Ex-works" Grp A, Ford Motorsport CP3620 4-pot callipers with titanium pistons and stainless-steel braided hoses. Ferodo DS3000 (CP3215D50) pads.

System: Hydraulic, dual-circuit with vacuum servo assistance and Teves ABS. Reyland hydraulic handbrake actuation.




ENGINE:
Type: Ford-Cosworth YBP
Capacity: 2180cc
Bore / Stroke: 92mm/82mm
Compression ratio: 7.54:1
Max. power: 477bhp @ 7010rpm @ 27 PSI**
Torque @ max. power: 358lb.ft
Max. torque: 408lb.ft @ 4520rpm @ 27 PSI**
Power @ max. torque: 351bhp
Specific output: 218bhp per litre.
Power / weight ratio: 335bhp/tonne.
Cylinders: Four, in-line. Accralite 92mm pistons.
Cylinder head: Works spec medium ported head (carried out by Nick Waples), with short duration cams.

Block: Cast iron (200 Series), WRC tri-metallic head gasket and long-studded.
Bottom end: Farndon 82mm crank, WRC high pressure oil pump.
Valve gear: Four valves per cylinder (35mm inlet / 31mm exhaust),
3-angle valves / seats operated by belt-driven twin overhead camshafts and inverted hydraulic bucket tappets operated by Isky valve springs. Big wing (5˝ litre) baffled sump and Bailey crankcase breather kit with braided hosing.
Fuel and ignition: Webber-Marrelli fuel injection with P8 ECU, Pectel Super 8 control board, Pectel monitor, water injection, Ford Motorsport leads, distributorless ignition system and ALS board. WRC siamese (side by side) 8-injector inlet manifold. AGP 071 plugs, eight 803 (dark green injectors) and 3 bar MAP sensor. Specially programmed
Ahmed Bayjoo ISS (Intercooler Spray System) chip live mapped on engine dyno.
Cooling: Pro-alloy Motorsport 50mm radiator, Pro-alloy auxiliary radiator (see below - this cools water for cylinder head), SPEC-R header tank, swirl pot and water-cooled power steering reservoir.

Induction: K&N panel filter inside modified standard air box T04E turbo (57 trim) with Maram 247 shaft 360° bearing etc, -31 actuator, Pro-alloy 65mm "super-wide" RS500 air-to-air intercooler and water injection (2 x 0.6mm jet). Boost controlled by Ford Motorsport air injectors.
Installation: Front, longitudinal
Exhaust: Mongoose 3" system with oval tail pipe.



Water injection

SUSPENSION:
Front: Independent by LEDA gas filled adjustable dampers with Eibach 325lb springs. Macpherson struts, set to 3° negative camber, 2mm total toe in (fully adjustable rose jointed TCAs). Standard 29mm anti-roll bar with polyurethane bushes.
Rear: Independent, by semi-trailing arms, LEDA gas filled adjustable dampers with Eibach 171lb springs and standard 22mm anti-roll bar. Grp A 6° Zoo ream beam set to 2°45' negative camber and 3mm total toe-in. Polyurethane rear axle bushes.

Rear bumpsteer:
Bump
60mm - 0.030" toe in
50mm - 0.023" toe in
40mm - 0.015" toe in
30mm - 0.009" toe in
20mm - 0.005" toe in
10mm - 0.003" toe in
Droop
10mm - 0.001" toe out
20mm - 0.002" toe out
30mm - 0.003" toe out



TRANSMISSION:
Type: Front-engine, four-wheel-drive
Gearbox: MT75, five-speed with Swedish (Fixit) gear kit.

Alcon six-plate paddle clutch with Reyland hydraulic actuation.


Front diff:Quaife ATB in thickwall casing.



Rear diff: Quiafe ATB in standard casing.

Internal Ratios (FIXIT Gearkit): 1st 3.00:1; 2nd 1.99:1; 3rd 1.33:1; 4th 1:1; 5th 0.825:1; Reverse 2.75:1; Final drive 3.62:1 giving 24.84 mph/1000rpm in top gear with 225/40x18s. Maximimum speed in gears at 7500rpm (rev limited to 7800):
1st 52mph
2nd 78mph
3rd 116mph
4th 155mph
5th 187mph


STEERING:
Type: Power-assisted rack-&-pinion
Lock-to-lock: 2.4 turns


BODY / CHASSIS:
Type: Pressed-steel monocoque, based on conventional Sierra / Escort, in two-door style.
Chassis construction: In steel, as part of monocoque
Dimensions:
Length: 4211mm Width: 1727mm Height: 1425mm Wheelbase: 2551mm Front track: 1453mm Rear track: 1472mm
Actual Weight: 1425Kg* (on road)
On track weight: 1395kg* (tool kit, spare wheel and rear
MDF shelf removed).

*Measured with half tank of fuel, wet weight without driver (75kg).

**Power is on dyno with no ancilliaries, but dynoed with Mongoose exhaust for as close to true power as possible. Estimated to be approx 450-460bhp in car with power steering / alternator drain etc.
Torque should be around 430lb ft now, as in the car it has been mapped for a 2.2bar (32psi) mid-range spike (3500-5000rpm), tailing off to the original 1.8bar after 6000rpm.


At Bedford








At the Nurburgring


At Snetterton


At ND 2004

Thanks to the following people for helping make the car what it is:
Harvey Gibbs, for building an engine so reliable, that I have hardly seen anything of him for the last two years .
Ahmed Bayjoo for being the God of mapping .
Reyland for the hydraulic clutch, handbrake, rear brakes, paint and patience to put up with a fussy git .
Steve Scott for sourcing some of the hard to get bits at the right prices .
Zoo for the rear beam - does what it says on the tin .
Gary at APT for dropping everything as and when required for bits and pieces .
Bernie at CTS for building up the Swedish gearkit quick-smart last year.
Chris at Carnoisseuar for lending me his Quaife for 6 months while I sorted out my Fixit kit (I'll never forget that ).
Tomas at TG Racing .
Jen for putting up with a hobby that consumes such a big part of my life .
My Mum, Dad, the good Lord, my agent etc etc and not forgetting IMA Racing for all his advice (that I then duly ignored and did the correct way ) [/quote
its not made out of tin you cooont

where my address for these bushes i asked you about on tuesday

 

mike i swear you get off on posting your car in every forum when ever you can get the chance homo

 

It gives me a stiffy .

 

So what consitutes a good setup?

How much would it effect a cars handling, even on a track? you can judge handling in lots of different ways....the beam & trailing arm configuration aint the best but you can dial out lots of the failings.....even on the front acumen angle can be massively improved from standard with the use of different steering arms, tca pick-up etc.

I think you would be hard pressed to try to judge any of the cars mentioned without a back to back test on a multichanging terrain....

I was on the Jim Clark rally recently and one guy who runs a clubby wrc esc was trouncing evo's, hyundai wrc cars etc.

He has spent a lot of time tuning the esc suspension & pickups to make the car handle.

I sometimes think people think very powerful cars handle well and this sometimes aint the case...the blue norweign car is very impressive but does that mean it handle any better than any other well setup car? the active diffs will have little effect on a track...

Ian

 

sib dont give away all the trade secrets how to make cars handle or i be out buiness


its all about angles and pick up point to match a a givien ride hight
thats all am saying

 

As has Gareth with Ahmed and his other crew. He is also an awesome driver!

But to say Gareths suspension components and design fundamentals are superior to a WRC Escort is just lunancy...

He uses leaky old Ledas and a Beam modded in Ahmeds shed

 

Great piccy... awesome car

 

Gareth Lloyds Escort was running touring car spec gear wasn't it ?
Would this not be better on track than WRC stuff, i'd have thought S Scotts escort to be on similar stuff, admittedly in an ex WRC car ?

All of the above are fantastic cars and if i had the money would buiold something similar.

 

I think probably the best handling mod in Gareths car is Gareth?

 

Yep, you put a GL in any car and it instantly improves the handling .

 

That's the secret, a medium sized nut strategically placed behind the steering wheel..............