Jon ERST S2

What do you reckon? Why do you think it is if it is?

Are Tuners being put under pressure to produce more power? Doing things behond what they've done before? The customer almost being the guinea pig?

OR Is it just because of the internet? People who have had bad service get heard more than they would have done in the past?

I mean don't get me wrong there are some VERY good people out there Karl/Stu etc

Opinions?

Rab

It's the internet. Definately. It's much easier to tell more people about how good/bad the service is!

Rolls

iTrader: (2)

Also, you expect good service to be a pre-requiste - hence why bad service stick in your mind!
Don't get me wrong, tunners whom have haven't performed as they should should not be recommended, BUT those whom are good NEED to be recomended more
Once the next engine is in, im starting to think there are only 2 people (maybe 3, depending on if i have the funds to go autronic lol) i will take it to to be mapped- both of this board!

Ian M500COS

But surely that should keep tuners on their toes... as it's easier for the word of bad service to get spread around?

cossymad

Firstly everyone wants to go that little bit further or do that little 'unique or one off thing' no -one else has, which inevitably leads to problems.
Secondly no-one want's to pay 'proper money' for a proper job.
Buying shit off Ebay that 'appears to be bling' does n't help either.

Jon ERST S2

I think I agree with you there to an extent.

Rolls

iTrader: (2)

but you can always find shite on ebay!!! - miean, those 3 pound chips, promising 20 bhp i've just ordered 4 of them! lol!

Oranoco

4 chips each with 20bhp. If you use all of them you'll have an extra 80bhp for Ł12. Bargain!!!

The internet plays a big part in this as more people have access to the net and sites such as this very one are available. It's only natural that when people say they have used "X" company that people will note their bad or good experiences.

In a way this is good as hopefully it means the crap companies can be filtered out. End of the day no matter how good the company is things can and do go wrong. The measure of a good company is how they deal with the problem.

JAP CRAP

nothing wrong with them, gona get one for my car when its done

Interesting topic though

Rolls, I think people do recommend tuners a lot. There are loads of happy customers who recommend the people who deserve it.....A1, MSD, NMS, SCS, Jamsport etc etc all have loyal followers who go on any thread when people ask "where should I go for X" and suggest their choice of tuner.

Paul J

From another thread id say it's about to get better here at the expence of the Irish LOL

cossymad

Also bear in mind the internet is making the tuning industry turn to shit.
Granted the internet is a good tool for advice, and recommendations etc, but bear in mind the wealth of knowledge that you gain from the internet, that turns out to be your own downfall.
Mr. X has a part fitted and it goes well, you get it fitted, and it fucks up.....that's your fault. Now we are having to hold back giving advice and try to accomodate peoples requests, and also use parts that have been sourced elsewhere.
If you tie yourself to 1 tuner.....pick any I don't care, and follow their advice to the T then in theory you won't have a problem.
They are the experts afterall ,and if you say 'can you build me a bullitproof bottom end, but I'll supply the Pistons and rod bolts, then they should tell you to piss off. Trouble is we don't and this is where problems arise.
I get about 100 calls aday regarding all sorts of things and from customers with all sorts of problems (Mike Rainbird's Rash was not an eay one to deal with) and the majority of problems are caused by people buying the wrong stuff then going arse about face try ing to fit it.
I guarentee that you can always find a cheaper product on the internet, but can you get good advice, that you can count on??????
How often have you rang up a tuner with no intention of buying something off of them, but still they chat to you and help you out, becuase they generally have a passion for the industry.
I would n't be where I am today if I told people to fuck off everytime they rang me up with problems with a product they bought elsewhere
Next time you are thinking about saving a pound or a fiver by shopping off the net, bear in mind that you will not be getting sound advice, after sales help, and understanding from US the tuners that are responsible.

AlexF

The cutomer always has and always will be the gunipig!

alex

Phil

iTrader: (1)

I think the gineau pig thing is mainly part of the "low budget tuning industry", and pressure from people wanting more from the tuner. In other marques, the tuner will build their own demo car, test it and then offer that EXACT package to customers.

Rolls

iTrader: (2)

yeah, i agree, but i think that this has become more noticable since the net has become much more widespread- for example, before i was on here, the only tunners that i would have gone to would have prob been BSW - nice and local, and seemed to know what he was on about when i went down there- NOW however two words spring to mind ....................
Word of mouth is all well and good, but unless your really willing to travel, you can only really go on what your mate's say if your not on the net, whereas its opend up a whole new world of info IMO!

for example I would have never considered going to cov/blackpool to get work done on my little xr2, but now, as i know there are many VERY satisfied customers from 2 partciular tunners, then im more than willing to make that trip!

CraigN

money grabbing bastards

all the good ones who put time and effort in to there jobs and production stu spending time developing his closed loop stuff etc

rushed jobs = more customers = more money

cheaper parts = lower overheads = more money

my experience with interpro was an emotional one

fed me a load of bullshit on why the chip i had for my car was wrong etc and they tried to set it up on that chip, then supplied there own chip and set it up on that.

did this without asking me

charged me to setup my car on 1st chip then swap chip to one fo theres which they charged me for and then charged me for labour to set up again

a simple stage 1 on a fiesta turbo cost me Ł450 when i supplied all the bits right down to actuator and bleedvalve.

i could have had it live mapped for only a bit more.

after i got a second opinion and turned out it was all tripe

only thing il be going to interpro for in the future is a power run

Stavros

Most are total wankers, always have been, jus thanks to the internet you find out about them, and/or hear about other companies that arnt total ripoff fuckheads

Mul@AMS

Well said i totaly agree

Spiky

iTrader: (1)

every tuner, will have happy and some sad customers, not everyone can be pleased......ooeerrr

but there are many people that use the net that just love to complian

Darrone

Cossymad - Hope you don't mind me asking, but who do you work for??

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

All i have to say that hasnt already been said is im sick of being tarnished with the same brush as other tuners who blatently rip people off and in my eyes actually havent a fooking clue what they are doing...

The thing is.. these rip off merchants get rich pretty sharpish and buy bigger units, attracting more people and more cash for nicer ramps and receptions etc etc that then make us slightly less extravagent looking tuners appear to be second grade. Take me with my poxy 1024sqft unit and small reception area... Karl (NMS) Works from home, no unit at all, and no reception... Mark (MAD) similar setup to Karl... The only reason Mark, Karl and myself are not rolling in money with a 10,000sgft unit each is because we DONT and WONT rip you off or fit / sell you something that you dont need. We do an honest job, to the best of our abilities (Which is pretty damn good most the time ya know ) and we charge an honest fee, or in most cases NOT NEARLY ENOUGH FOR WHAT WE HAVE DONE.

Now much as that helps me to sleep well at night, it doesnt help me to pay my bills... Its all a bunch or arse and ive often considered calling it a night. Still do in fact, A LOT.


EDITED TO SAY:
I am not suggesting all tuners with units bigger than mine are ripoffs before the internet rumour mill gets started

cossymad

I work for me!!!!!
Carnoisseur in Southend (that's my shop)

Oh yes another thing I thought of after letting my fingers rest, is if peopla say for example ''What is the best XXXXX to get?'' That is like asking how long is a piece of string!!!
Each product is specifically designed for a particular application, and peoples needs are always different i.e. Martin Hadlands Gumball engine........even Martin has called it the 'endurance spec'!!!! which I interpreret (sp) as meaning it has been designed to outlast his usual BHP giants although still maintaining drivability, and longevity.
Mike Rainbirds Escort again built for power & realiability. Everything is a compromise. If someone calls me and says what suspension is the best, I would find out what they need it for first. What's the point in an internet chat room suggesting Ohlins remote resevoir coil-overs on a road car that may see the track 2 times a year, and compete in 0 gravel stages
When selling things I always ask what they are being used for and then go from there. Buying ''the best'' is not always the correct way........like putting a Turbonetics rollerbearing T77 turbo on a 600cc smart car......it might the bollocks, but it ain't gonna do shit!

RANJ

well put stu

Paul J

Stu, you and the others you mentioned have outstanding respect on here and other site's, whereas the cowboys are now being exposed. IMHO the internet is the best thing to happen to tuning in a long time.

Jon ERST S2

totally agree with you stu. You and karl are two people I'd definetly trust to work on my car. Totally worth the long drive.

JAP CRAP

Darrone

Cool. Hope you didn't mind me asking. It's just something that I've wondered for a long time!

cossymad

Nope I don't mind!
By the way is 3dr your real last name?

Darrone

I just done a rib I think!!

Billabong

Also often forgotten is that our Fords in particular are all getting on in years now, and customers don't always uprate other certain things before going for power hikes......who's fault is that..... People also like to fiddle with boost and other things, and the tuner usually get the gyp when stuff subsequently goes wrong.

Internet has opened things up a lot as said, but imo, it's a double edged sword - it's easy to slag a company and give a bad rep' without people knowing the real/full story....

I also think there's only a handfull of 'real' tuners, as opposed to a huge amount of new 'tuning' companies that have sprung up and basically sell parts and possibly fit them - a fitter ain't a tuner imo.

Those are my observations, and certainly aren't aimed at anyone in particular, in case anyone reads something into it that isn't there.

Been using my tuner for over a decade and have never once been let down, in fact on many occaisions they've bent over backwards to help - I do think there is something to be said for sticking with one tuner as there are many ways to skin a cat, and it's a potential minefield chopping and changining frequently, although fully appreciate if you don't get good service you have little option else..... There are a couple of others I would consider using, but due to the level of service I recieve, they unfortunately don't get a look in unless time or other constraints dictate otherwise.

I've also used some others (mainly for parts or things outside the scope of the services offered) and the service has also been top notch - maybe I'm just one of the lucky few to never have had service related issues thesedays....

Hansenturbo

the internet is good for us customer and not always so good for the tuners cos if the tuner get 2 or 3 unsatisfied customer he needs 15 or 20 satisfied customer to get a good reputation again

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Very true

Big G

Customer's will tell 10 people about shit treatment they have had from a company, but will only tell 1 or 2 about good treatment they have had.
its the same in all walk's of life and unfortunatly 1 of the pitfall's of owning your own business.

I still hear about people who wont use my company because they say the previous owner was an arrogant rip off merchant, Great innit.


Question
How many times have you avoided a pub because youve been told by a 3rd party
a) It's rough
b) The beers like rhino piss (understandable)
c) The food was shit
but you wont go and make that decision for yourself?

Stavros

Thats a good point, i never do that, but it fucks me off when people do!

BUT on the other hand, cant really do that with car tuners, by time youve done enough to form a good opinion youve spent your cash and may or may not have been totaly ripped off!

Stavros

Appearances can be VERY decieving in the tuning industry, some/most of the best people work out of pokey rat holes (you ever seen Martin Hadlands place?), and the people who work from all singing all dancing premisis (GGR, ahem ) are often a fooking ripoff!

RSrussell

As this post obviously stemmed from Jim Brasso's situation, i think that comment is unjust (in his case anyhow)

Jon ERST S2

No - nothing to do with Jim's. I'm in NO way defending it.

I was more thinking about myself... i.e Clint situation. He offered a cheap cossie management conversion.... and the rest they say is history.

Jon ERST S2

oh and BTW it stemmed from a lot of things. One being Ian @ Racetek for instance was more of a general thing..

https://passionford.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=66931

Brasso

Missed this thread LOL.

Without the internet I would have never found out about BSW, thats when the RSOCBB was busy, that turned out to be a very bad thing for me personally cus I put my trust and a substantial amount of wedge into my car, jus to be riddled with probs and ripped of big time.

But also without the Internet I wouldnt have been able to express my thoughts on DICKHEAD @ BSW to other people who might go to him unaware and get the same scandelous (sp?) service I have. Its just a shame he's wrappin up in this country and fuckin of to Ireland other wise my outburst might have been able to cost him some business and money.

I wasnt even askin for a monster engine or owt, I jus wanted it to work and not break down every other day! I parted with proper money and deffo expected a proper job! "Whatever the car needs, get it" were my words!

Havnt had much other experiences with known tuners, due to the fact that idiot had my car for so long.

Brasso

I was new to the net when I first went on the RSOCBB, a local garage who build track/sprint cars had a go at a zetec turbs for me but it jus wouldnt come together, I was deffo the guinee pig in that situation.

Sketch had just had his finished by BSW and all was workin fine, Paul J's car was bein built there and also Jons, at the time it seemed the best place to take it even tho it was so far from me. If I do carry on with mine it'll deffo be goin to someone who knows the crack.

Gotta have me share of good luck eventually!