Off topic - any refrigeration experts on here: replacing R22
25-06-2006, 06:56 AM
#1
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Off topic - any refrigeration experts on here: replacing R22
I've heard you can just replace the gas whereas I previously thought you had to replace the whole unit, costing ubber money in my situation.
HOwever, I've heard that the direct replacement gas has caused issues such as early compressor failure. Has anyone had any experience of this.
ta
HOwever, I've heard that the direct replacement gas has caused issues such as early compressor failure. Has anyone had any experience of this.
ta
25-06-2006, 08:37 AM
#2
...i assume that is the old refridgerant...and as you can not get legally now all you can use is the new R24 aint it?...Well all you need is the upgrade kit (seals and shit) nowt major and viola new gas now properly excepted.
If i am taking what you are saying the wrong way..then never mind
If i am taking what you are saying the wrong way..then never mind
25-06-2006, 10:01 AM
#3
Testing the future
Bosch-Man wtf are you talking about? 
are you getting confused with automotive a/c systems that used to use r12 and now must use r134a?
r22 is used in building a/c and commercial refrigeration. you can continue to use r22 until 2010 so that's what we'll do in our chillers at work and then look into drop in replacements. by then, there should be more evidence into which give the most reliable results. if in doubt, follow the recomendations of the compressor manufacturer, as that is the only mechanical part that will fail as a result.
are you getting confused with automotive a/c systems that used to use r12 and now must use r134a?
r22 is used in building a/c and commercial refrigeration. you can continue to use r22 until 2010 so that's what we'll do in our chillers at work and then look into drop in replacements. by then, there should be more evidence into which give the most reliable results. if in doubt, follow the recomendations of the compressor manufacturer, as that is the only mechanical part that will fail as a result.
25-06-2006, 05:54 PM
#4
Advanced PassionFord User
Paul,
Could you elaborate a little more, your information is a bit vague to make a proper reply.
To give you some idea, the general problems with R22 replacment is which long term alternative refrigerant to use, R407C is the interim blend refrigerant, recognised as the retrofit drop in for R22 but as you touched on has flaws with regard to compressor failure, failures which not only effect refrigerant replacment but R407C systems in general. The problems with R407C are numerous (differences in oil, mineral/PAG) and I aint got time to fully explain but suffice to say Japan and the States have not even produced much equipment using R407C but have jumped straight onto the long term R22 replacement, R410A. Unlike the blended R407C, R410A is a mono refrigerant and is well suited to small/commercial type systems, but R410A operates are a much higher suction and discharge pressure, so you cant retrofit R22 to R410A.
The other problem is the development of R410A in larger systems, R410A is not being used in large capacity systems with big compressors, the feeling of the industry seems to be a revert back to ammonia, R134A or in some cases R404A. Or the other alternative multiple smaller chillers piped together.
The other consideration is the type of compressors being used, we are replacing lots of old open drive R22 machines now with inverter driven and scroll compressors, this doesn't have anything to do with the refrigerant but companies are being encouraged to install new equipment which is energy effcient. Some of the system we install are eligable for enhanced capital allowance.
HTH, if you need any info or some free advice, feel free to give me a call at the office.
Ian
Could you elaborate a little more, your information is a bit vague to make a proper reply.
To give you some idea, the general problems with R22 replacment is which long term alternative refrigerant to use, R407C is the interim blend refrigerant, recognised as the retrofit drop in for R22 but as you touched on has flaws with regard to compressor failure, failures which not only effect refrigerant replacment but R407C systems in general. The problems with R407C are numerous (differences in oil, mineral/PAG) and I aint got time to fully explain but suffice to say Japan and the States have not even produced much equipment using R407C but have jumped straight onto the long term R22 replacement, R410A. Unlike the blended R407C, R410A is a mono refrigerant and is well suited to small/commercial type systems, but R410A operates are a much higher suction and discharge pressure, so you cant retrofit R22 to R410A.
The other problem is the development of R410A in larger systems, R410A is not being used in large capacity systems with big compressors, the feeling of the industry seems to be a revert back to ammonia, R134A or in some cases R404A. Or the other alternative multiple smaller chillers piped together.
The other consideration is the type of compressors being used, we are replacing lots of old open drive R22 machines now with inverter driven and scroll compressors, this doesn't have anything to do with the refrigerant but companies are being encouraged to install new equipment which is energy effcient. Some of the system we install are eligable for enhanced capital allowance.
HTH, if you need any info or some free advice, feel free to give me a call at the office.
Ian
25-06-2006, 08:17 PM
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Phil, the hint is in the title 'Off Topic'
Ian, thanks for that. I have nearly 2000 sites still using R22
and am currently pulling together budgets for sorting it. Replacing whole units runs into 10's of millions which is why I'd be keen to go down the re-gas route if it's reliable.
Would love to replace it all with ECA qualifying kit but will have to see if the budgets can take it.
I'll be chatting to our contractor to get their views too.
I might take you up on the call. Will see what the reaction is first when I give them the costs
cheers
Ian, thanks for that. I have nearly 2000 sites still using R22
and am currently pulling together budgets for sorting it. Replacing whole units runs into 10's of millions which is why I'd be keen to go down the re-gas route if it's reliable.Would love to replace it all with ECA qualifying kit but will have to see if the budgets can take it.
I'll be chatting to our contractor to get their views too.
I might take you up on the call. Will see what the reaction is first when I give them the costs
cheers
26-06-2006, 08:23 AM
#7
Advanced PassionFord User
Paul,
Again just for info now I understand the scale of the job, the drop in replacement for R22 is R417A they list R417A as an interim and long term replacment. It will operate with mineral, alkylbenzene and polyol ester oil although if you were retrofitting from R22 a 50/50 mix of mineral/alkylbenzene oils is prefrerred, so the contractor would have a bit of work to do....
Cost wise you would be looking at a refrigerant with a cost price of approx £15.00 per kilo, alkylbenzene oil is approx £9.00 per litre...
HTH
Ian
Again just for info now I understand the scale of the job, the drop in replacement for R22 is R417A they list R417A as an interim and long term replacment. It will operate with mineral, alkylbenzene and polyol ester oil although if you were retrofitting from R22 a 50/50 mix of mineral/alkylbenzene oils is prefrerred, so the contractor would have a bit of work to do....
Cost wise you would be looking at a refrigerant with a cost price of approx £15.00 per kilo, alkylbenzene oil is approx £9.00 per litre...
HTH
Ian
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