World First - Variable Vane Turbo on production petrol car
09-06-2006, 08:17 AM
#83
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Originally Posted by chip-3door
PS
Dont forget its the timing too, not just the fuelling
Basically if you do it on cossie style management you would need to map for the worst case permenantly, so the most amount of fuel and the least amount of timing, and that in itself will kill many of the benefits of it!
Dont forget its the timing too, not just the fuelling
Basically if you do it on cossie style management you would need to map for the worst case permenantly, so the most amount of fuel and the least amount of timing, and that in itself will kill many of the benefits of it!
, much like a usual wastegate setup...so you can adjust on any type of system fueling and ignition to suit.
I know what your getting at, that if we had two scenarios of full boost (ie 20psi closed and 20psi open at the same rev point - which some people do, they would suffer boost spiking and leaning out..)
09-06-2006, 09:21 AM
#84
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surely the vnt actuator can be mapped in using a boost control valve scenario?
do these vnt's also have a conventional wastegate?
i guess that if you have a mapped external wastegate and mapped vnt actuator, you can have a bigger turbo without any surge issues.
do these vnt's also have a conventional wastegate?
i guess that if you have a mapped external wastegate and mapped vnt actuator, you can have a bigger turbo without any surge issues.
09-06-2006, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by foreigneRS
surely the vnt actuator can be mapped in using a boost control valve scenario?
do these vnt's also have a conventional wastegate?
i guess that if you have a mapped external wastegate and mapped vnt actuator, you can have a bigger turbo without any surge issues.
do these vnt's also have a conventional wastegate?
i guess that if you have a mapped external wastegate and mapped vnt actuator, you can have a bigger turbo without any surge issues.
Most of the factory VNTS do not have an internal wastegate, on the diesels they relied on all the exhaust gas flow going out through the turbine, but diesels have far less exhaust flow and run higher than normal boost anyway, so this was not really a problem..
On a petrol setup, you should always use an external wastegate. For instance, on a 15psi setup, set the ext. to open at 15psi, or thereabouts, and set the VNT act. to open at say 5psi. Its all experimental, there are no set rules, it depends on car and setup.
The Turbo Technics has an internal wastegate setup and 2.75 3 bolt outlet so it is very easy fit, but IIRC its over a grand Ł.
The VNT I am using is brand new unit from a Renault Vel Satis 3.0 V6 DCI, which is 200bhp in diesel form at 1 bar of boost.
Its a GT2559V model, and the clue is in the part number. Its a GT25 core and turbine, and a 59mm comp wheel.
This is the map for it, very similar to a 55/60 trim T3..(red graph - though my turbo has a larger a/r comp housing)
09-06-2006, 09:51 AM
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Of course, there is no reason why you couldnt upgrade this unit to a larger comp size, say a GT32 or 30 compressor wheel in the 0.61 housing I am running, you would just have to adjust the VNT actuation to reduce surge, and have a basis for 300-400bhp.
09-06-2006, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Rick
So is there a VNT Back end, say around 0.63 that will fit to a T34 front? Ideal for a lot of us.
But this doesnt stop the Nissan fraternity hitting 350+ on units such as the GT2540 or GT2876 etc.. which have more or less the same hot side..
This is a big VNT, the GT37V
09-06-2006, 11:49 AM
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Theres not much info on the larger VNT units. There is a GT37V and 42V, but I have also heard there is a GT32VNT which would be perfect for a 2.0 and good for 400bhp
The standard GT32 runs a 64mm turbine wheel, 0.69 a/r (T3 foot) and a 71 or 76mm compressor with 54mm inducer, so a VNT version would be just what you are after..
Now the GT32 non VNT was primarily designed for Volvo on their new trucks, and the only references to GT32VNTs I can find are on Sweedish tuning websites, though I can't find any translation software to work out what they are saying, but the coincedence does lead to there probably being a unit available..
The standard GT32 runs a 64mm turbine wheel, 0.69 a/r (T3 foot) and a 71 or 76mm compressor with 54mm inducer, so a VNT version would be just what you are after..
Now the GT32 non VNT was primarily designed for Volvo on their new trucks, and the only references to GT32VNTs I can find are on Sweedish tuning websites, though I can't find any translation software to work out what they are saying, but the coincedence does lead to there probably being a unit available..
12-06-2006, 11:34 AM
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Re: World First - Variable Vane Turbo on production petrol c
Originally Posted by frog
The Pug 205 T16 Grp B car is the FIRST being made in 1985.... - so a 
for Stevie for a change, as my maths makes that 4 years previous to the Yank piece of shit 
. Although not strictly variable vane, it had a tongue controlled by a second actuator that varied the port size of the turbo, thus increasing gas speed when it reduced the port size, thus spinning the turbo up sooner. The turbo's were hellishly expensive and the complete item had to be replaced when the tongue failed.
for Stevie for a change, as my maths makes that 4 years previous to the Yank piece of shit . Although not strictly variable vane, it had a tongue controlled by a second actuator that varied the port size of the turbo, thus increasing gas speed when it reduced the port size, thus spinning the turbo up sooner. The turbo's were hellishly expensive and the complete item had to be replaced when the tongue failed.The 405 T16 (based on an 306 S16 2.0 16v) engine on the other hand did come with a VAT25 turbo. Maybe thats where the confusion came from.
http://www.nic.fi/~slaaksoh/autourhe...T16/205t16.htm
12-06-2006, 11:48 AM
#94
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Re: World First - Variable Vane Turbo on production petrol c
Originally Posted by 205T16
Originally Posted by frog
The Pug 205 T16 Grp B car is the FIRST being made in 1985.... - so a for Stevie for a change, as my maths makes that 4 years previous to the Yank piece of shit . Although not strictly variable vane, it had a tongue controlled by a second actuator that varied the port size of the turbo, thus increasing gas speed when it reduced the port size, thus spinning the turbo up sooner. The turbo's were hellishly expensive and the complete item had to be replaced when the tongue failed.
for Stevie for a change, as my maths makes that 4 years previous to the Yank piece of shit . Although not strictly variable vane, it had a tongue controlled by a second actuator that varied the port size of the turbo, thus increasing gas speed when it reduced the port size, thus spinning the turbo up sooner. The turbo's were hellishly expensive and the complete item had to be replaced when the tongue failed.The 405 T16 (based on an 306 S16 2.0 16v) engine on the other hand did come with a VAT25 turbo. Maybe thats where the confusion came from.
http://www.nic.fi/~slaaksoh/autourhe...T16/205t16.htm
12-06-2006, 11:53 AM
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Indeed, I believe the 205 T16 (which was also the base of 405 and Xantia Paris Dakar Cars?) had sweet bugger all to do with the 405T16 other than the badge?
12-06-2006, 11:58 AM
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Re: World First - Variable Vane Turbo on production petrol c
Originally Posted by 205T16
Originally Posted by frog
The Pug 205 T16 Grp B car is the FIRST being made in 1985.... - so a for Stevie for a change, as my maths makes that 4 years previous to the Yank piece of shit . Although not strictly variable vane, it had a tongue controlled by a second actuator that varied the port size of the turbo, thus increasing gas speed when it reduced the port size, thus spinning the turbo up sooner. The turbo's were hellishly expensive and the complete item had to be replaced when the tongue failed.
for Stevie for a change, as my maths makes that 4 years previous to the Yank piece of shit . Although not strictly variable vane, it had a tongue controlled by a second actuator that varied the port size of the turbo, thus increasing gas speed when it reduced the port size, thus spinning the turbo up sooner. The turbo's were hellishly expensive and the complete item had to be replaced when the tongue failed.The 405 T16 (based on an 306 S16 2.0 16v) engine on the other hand did come with a VAT25 turbo. Maybe thats where the confusion came from.
http://www.nic.fi/~slaaksoh/autourhe...T16/205t16.htm
Twas a triple K..
12-06-2006, 12:55 PM
#97
I got conflicting info in my research - some seem to state that the turbo is a KKK and some seem to state that it is the Garrett on the 205T16 
.
However, having further investigated, the T16 varient wasn't available until 1992, so in my arse . It therefore wasn't part if the Grp B era 
. Assumption is the mother of all fuck-ups .
.However, having further investigated, the T16 varient wasn't available until 1992, so
in my arse . It therefore wasn't part if the Grp B era . Assumption is the mother of all fuck-ups .
12-06-2006, 01:06 PM
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